Much ado about chords

I've never really used chords unless it's a simple C, or G, or whatever. I've been listening to the Who a lot lately, and realize much of Pete's great guitar playing is built around full sounding chords all over the fretboard.

So I realize chords are much deeper than just a few neck positions. But what exactly are they then? How do I know what chord to use and when?

Basically, I need a run down on chords :mrgreen:

The answers to your questions would take days to type. Basically, any note in a key can have a chord built on it. Chords are built up from the root in intervals of thirds.

I suggest taking lessons, and picking up a music theory book, but I don't know which one to recommend.

Chords are based on the notes of scale. I.E. ceg= C chord dfa = dminor and so on up the scale. For the major scale it goes C D E F G A B. The chords are C(maj) D minor E minor F G7 A minor B diminished. Generally the notes of the melody come from the same notes of the scale and the chords get built out of the same notes. For most popular music the I, IV, V7 and VI are the primary chords. In the key of C that's Cmaj, F, G7, and A Min. The other chords are also used but these 4 make up like 60 to 90 % of the chords used.

For Jazz the rules are a bit different and the progressions are generally something like ii, IV7, Imaj7 which in C would be D minor, G7, C Major 7.

This may be confusing because I'm not the best person to explain it and the other folks here will jump in with better and more detailed explanations.

I agree with Joe-Bob. Get an easy-to-understand book on basic music theory. Anything that'll tell you about keys, scales related to keys, chords related to scales and how they're built will help. I took music theory in high school, and all that's really stuck with me has been simple key-scale-chord stuff, but that's been a real big help in understanding the stuff I come up with and the stuff I wanna learn.

I'm no chord expert either but the basic principle is easy.

Every chord starts with the root note and then the 3 and 5 notes.

So a G chord starts with G, then the 3rd note counted from G, which is B, then the 5th note which is D. Play those 3 notes and you have a G chord.

Now lets say you wanna play a G-7th. That's a G chord, with a 7th note added. So counting 7 from G, that's F. Play a G chord with an F note added, and you have G7th.

That's correct I think and its a lot more complicated than that but that's basically it.

You need to look at the circle of fifths and print out a scale chart. These will explain very much to you.

Basically, is is as everyone has stated. a chord has at least 2 notes: start with the root and 5th, that's a 2-note power chord. adding the 3rd makes it more like a major chord. if you flat the 3rd, you will get a minor chord.
an easier method than learning music theory is to learn all the major, minor, and 7th chords first. learn these in more than one position. then, you can worry about other chords and theory.

I'm no chord expert either but the basic principle is easy.

Every chord starts with the root note and then the 3 and 5 notes.

So a G chord starts with G, then the 3rd note counted from G, which is B, then the 5th note which is D. Play those 3 notes and you have a G chord.

Now lets say you wanna play a G-7th. That's a G chord, with a 7th note added. So counting 7 from G, that's F. Play a G chord with an F note added, and you have G7th.

That's correct I think and its a lot more complicated than that but that's basically it.

One very minor but still important correction to this. To make a chord a 7th chord, you're actually adding a "flat" 7 to the standard 1, 3, 5 of a major chord. You're right that for a G7 chord, the note you're adding is an F, but that's because the 7th note in a G scale is an F# (flat the 7th for a 7th chord, gives you an F).

Just get a chord book with barre chords, and resolve to play tunes you play now with no open strings. If you are dealing with basic chord types, major, minor and seventh, there are not that many commonly used fingerings. I don't know what type of music you like, but Beatles music uses a lot of chords and is a good learning tool.

If it weren't for chords, I woudn't be able to play much at all.

I've looked at that Circle of Fifths deal quite few times expecting some sort of "aha" moment, but it has yet to happen. I think I may have some sort of cognitive disorder.

I've looked at that Circle of Fifths deal quite few times expecting some sort of "aha" moment, but it has yet to happen. I think I may have some sort of cognitive disorder.

I understand the circle of 5ths myself, but it doesn't help me understand music at all! LOL I intellectually know how it all inter-relates, chords to scales, fifths fourths thirds, etc. But I think I have the same cognitive disorder as you.

Or I might just be lazy... Yeah, probably the lazy part....

Realistically I use a lot of barre chords. Open chords are usually my last resort. Funny how that works... the first thing I learned way back when were the basic cowboy chords, but then I discovered the E and A shape barre chords and off to the races I went. Then I discovered these cool 7th, minor, and 9th chords and I thought I sounded pretty jazzy...

Then I discovered the pentatonic scale and tried to avoid playing chords... Yeah, lazy.... I know, I know...

Now, I'm rediscovering the use of chords to build solos and working on learning arpeggios and grabbing little pieces of chords to help with substitutions.

So, I seem to be back at the beginning again, only my fingers are a lot more coordinated now than they were back then!

Check out a book called "Theory for the Contemporary Guitarist." I forget the author, but it costs around $10. It does a good job of explaining chord theory and application from the very basics, and has enough information that I'm finding stuff to learn about even after 40 years of playing.

I know the circle of fifths by heart. Not sure it has helped me much but I had to memorize it during piano lessons or band practice or choir practice or some darned thing when I was a kid.

But there's something I've recently come across that I believe may be the One True Thing through which everything will be revealed to me if I can just understand this One Thing. It is called the Harmonized Major Scale, ever heard of it?

The idea is you can use each note of a major scale as the root upon which you construct a seventh chord using only notes from the underlying major scale. So in C-major (just for example) it consists of:

Cmaj7
Dm7
Em7
Fmaj7
G7
Am7
Bm7(flat 5)
Cmaj7

As soon as I saw that I grokked that it has something to do with why I-vi-ii-V7-I sounds like the basis of a song while something like I-VI-II7-v-I does not. So I keep staring at a diagram of the Harmonized Scale and waiting for the light bulb to quit flickering and illuminate me. Nothing yet...

learn how to make 'em, and how to spell 'em. it's the best thing you'll ever do for your playing.

once you've got majors (R, 3, 5) and minors (R, b3, 5) down, i like to look at everything else as either maj7, m7 or dominant.

so maj7 : R, 3, 5, 7

dominant7 : R, 3, 5, b7

m7: R, b3, 5, b7

and i think it's beneficial to know a m7b5 too, especially if you're into jazzy stuff

m7b5: R, b3, b5, b7

then comes extensions. once you figure out that a 9th is the same as a 2nd, an 11th is a 4th and a 13th is a sixth, the fun really starts. but in my opinion, the important thing to know is the notes on the fretboard and their relationships. i think knowing that an E is the sixth (or thirteenth) of G is very liberating--i can get that sound anywhere i want.

the other thing to dig on is that soetimes the "full" sounding chords aren't that many notes. learn your thirds and sevenths. sit down with another guitar player or a bassist and have them play the root and you just play the third and seventh of the chord. cool, huh?

my students probably get sick of hearing it, but i preach the importance of chord knowledge and fretboard knowledge constantly. spending some time on this will really open up your playing, i promise.

Just get a chord book with barre chords, and resolve to play tunes you play now with no open strings. If you are dealing with basic chord types, major, minor and seventh, there are not that many commonly used fingerings. I don't know what type of music you like, but Beatles music uses a lot of chords and is a good learning tool.+1000. That's gonna be your best "next" step.
Keep in mind, there's 10,000 more steps after this. Yes, just with chords.

my students probably get sick of hearing it, but i preach the importance of chord knowledge and fretboard knowledge constantly. spending some time on this will really open up your playing, i promise.


I really want all that stuff! But even what you guys all explained, I'm still lost as heck. I think I'm going to invest in some lessons

Sorry for the double post. In the time between each one, I actually just figured out how to find every note on the fret board :). What now?

Sorry for the double post. In the time between each one, I actually just figured out how to find every note on the fret board :). What now?

Now figure out how they relate:

1. On the low E string, pick a note, any note. That's your root. Same fret, move up to the A string. This is the 4th. From this point, move a fret towards the nut. This is the 3rd (major). The major 3rd is diagonal from the root. Any time you see this diagonal pattern anywhere on the fretboard, you will know that this relationship is a major 3rd. This is called an interval of a third.

2. Be aware that this works for all the strings except for the G to B string. This causes an offset of 1 fret, because of the way standard tuning is set up, but you get used to this.

3. Using a music theory book and chord chart, figure out all the relationships (intervals) between all the fretted notes in the chords you find in the book. Get to know the patterns. Get to understand the intervals between the notes under your fingers when you make a chord. This looks overwhelming, but it isn't. There is really only a dozen or so note-to-note patterns (intervals) that show up over and over again in all the chords you will ever make.

Why do this work? Because after you get this, you can pretty much figure out most chords without needing a book!

I think if you can take lessons, that would one of the best things you can do. One of my regrets in guitar is not taking more lessons. However, you can accomplish a lot on your own. Here are what I think are the most common barre chord forms. The lowest note in each of the forms is the root of the chord, ie in the G chord shown, the lowest note is G. Many chords are just variations on these basic forms. (If you are not familiar with this notation, the low E string in on the left; numbers are fret numbers)

G: 355433

C: x3555x or x35553

D: x54232

Gm: 355333

Cm: x35543

G7: 353433 or 353463

C7: x35353

D7: x5453x

Ok. So far I've learned this.

In the key of C, chords go like this:

C=I=CEG
Dm=ii=DFA
Em=iii=EGB
F=IV=FAC
G=V=GBD
Am=vi=ACE
Bdim=vii=BDF



So from that, in correlation with the fret board, I get that:

C= 032010
Em=022000
F=x33211
G=320033
Am=002210
Dm=100231

However, when I get to Bdim, what I learned doesn't seem to correlate:

What I've learned:
Bdim=120x01

What it is:
Bdim=xx0101

Meaning that Bdim would be the notes D,Ab,B and F.

Can someone explain to me why Bdim gets that extra note?

Only has a 4th note if you are using 7ths etc .

CMj7
Dm7
Em7
FMj7
GMj7
Am7
Bm7b5
etc

http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/b-diminished-chord.html


Diminished = Major triad with the third and fifth flattened i.e. 1 b3 b5

Diminished 7 = Same a s the minor seventh chord with the fifth and seventh flatted. This results in the 7th scale degree having a double flat (which is effectively the same as a sixth but should not be viewed as the sixth) i.e. 1 b3 b5 bb7

Half Diminished = This is also known as the minor 7 flat five (m7b5) and as the name says it's the same as a minor seven chord but with a flat fifth. i.e. 1 b3 b5 b7


http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/major-scales-1.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/major-chords-2.jpg

Harmonic minor

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/MINORE-ARMONICA.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/harmonic-minor-2.jpg

Melodic minor

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/melodic-scale.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/melodica-minore-2.jpg

Natural minor

These are in direct relationship with your Majors , and should be learned at the same time as your Majors . Note that these ( all pics ) are all harmonized as 7ths in each block , so don't get confused because of the 4 notes .

C / Am ... G / Em etc

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/natural-scale.jpg

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/flat357/natural-minor.jpg

All the above from here :
http://www.musilosophy.com/chord-charts.htm

Some chords for you in basic forms :



Ab Abm Ab7 Abm7 Ab6 Abmaj7
466544 466444 4645X4 4644X4 46X564 XX6543

Abm6 Abdim Abaug A Am A7
466464 XX0101 XX2110 002220 002210 002020

Am7 A6 Amaj7 Am6 Adim Aaug
002010 002222 002120 002212 X01212 X03221

Bb Bbm Bb7 Bbm7 Bb6 Bbmaj7
113331 113321 113131 113121 113333 113231

Bbm6 Bbdim Bbaug B Bm B7
113323 XX2323 XX4221 224442 224432 X21202

Bm7 B6 Bmaj7 Bm6 Bdim Baug
X20202 224444 224342 224434 XX0101 XX5443

C Cm C7 Cm7 C6 Cmaj7
032010 335543 032310 335343 335555 332000

Cm6 Cdim Caug C# C#m C#7
335545 XX1212 032110 446664 446654 X4342X

C#m7 C#6 C#maj7 C#m6 C#dim C#aug
446454 446666 446564 012120 XX2323 XX3221

D Dm D7 Dm7 D6 Dmaj7
X00232 X00231 X00212 X00211 X00202 X00222

Dm6 Ddim Daug Eb Ebm Eb7
X00201 XX0101 XX0332 668886 668876 X6564X

Ebm7 Eb6 Ebmaj7 Ebm6 Ebdim Ebaug
668676 668888 X11333 X3434X XX1212 XX5443

E Em E7 Em7 E6 Emaj7
022100 022000 020100 020010 022120 022444

Em6 Edim Eaug F Fm F7
022020 0X2323 032110 X03211 XX3111 131211

Fm7 F6 Fmaj7 Fm6 Fdim Faug
131111 13X231 XX3210 XX0111 XX0101 X03221

F# F#m F#7 F#m7 F#6 F#maj7
244322 244222 XX4320 242222 24X342 XX4321

F#m6 F#dim F#aug G Gm G7
X01222 X01212 XX4332 320003 133111 320001

Gm7 G6 Gmaj7 Gm6 Gdim Gaug
131111 320000 320002 X10030 XX2323 XX5443

For :

Intervals
Seventh
Applying chords to music
Chord naming
Naming Chord Triads
Inversions
Voicings
Alternate names for chords
Polychords
Powerchords
Slash Chords



Please view this site :

http://www.guitarsite.com/chords3.htm#intervals



Hope all the above is not too much info for you , but simply shows you that if you have the time , Google is your best friend :cool:

Meaning that Bdim would be the notes D,Ab,B and F.

Can someone explain to me why Bdim gets that extra note?

What you have previously learned as a diminished chord, xx0101 is not the same chord as the diminished chord built on the seventh note of the major scale. The diminished chord built on the seventh note of the major scale is a three note chord (triad), and is not really used much. (Not to make things too complicated, but it is often viewed as the upper part of a V7 chord, G7 in the key of C, ie G7 is spelled G B D F, and the BDF is the diminished triad.)

When folks speak of diminished chords, they almost always mean a fully diminished seventh chord, but it is simply called diminished by convention. It is an artificial chord, meaning it does not naturally occur using our regular chord building rules. B fully diminished seventh is spelled B D F Ab.

What you have previously learned as a diminished chord, xx0101 is not the same chord as the diminished chord built on the seventh note of the major scale. The diminished chord built on the seventh note of the major scale is a three note chord (triad), and is not really used much. (Not to make things too complicated, but it is often viewed as the upper part of a V7 chord, G7 in the key of C, ie G7 is spelled G B D F, and the BDF is the diminished triad.)

When folks speak of diminished chords, they almost always mean a fully diminished seventh chord, but it is simply called diminished by convention. It is an artificial chord, meaning it does not naturally occur using our regular chord building rules. B fully diminished seventh is spelled B D F Ab.


Only question is, why is the note Ab?


And another one (XD), learning the chords in C was relatively easy, but other keys look very confusing. Can someone give me an example of another key?

Only question is, why is the note Ab?




The fully diminished chord has a diminished seventh, 9 half steps above the B root, compared to a 10 half step seventh interval in say a B7 chord, or the 11 half step major seventh of a BMaj7 chord. (Am I counting right?) All of the notes of the fully diminished chord are diminished in some sense: the minor 3d is diminished from the benchmark major 3d, it has a diminished 5th instead of perfect 5th, and even the 7th is diminished. Fully diminished.

I gotta run. I'll say more later.

And another one (XD), learning the chords in C was relatively easy, but other keys look very confusing. Can someone give me an example of another key?

Did you even read my previous posts ? :rolleyes:

ALL the Major and Minor scales are in the pics above in every key .


The C Major scale ( key signature ) has no sharps or flats so is C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C . Each can be played as a chord , which was your original question I believe , so look at the charts for all the chords for each scale . If you don't want the 7ths , then simply play a triad ( 3 notes ) without it , so you get

C Major
D minor
E minor
F Major
G major
A minor
B Dim

or

D Major
E minor
F# minor
G Major
A major
B minor
C# Dim

All in the charts above .

Did you even read my previous posts ? :rolleyes:

ALL the Major and Minor scales are in the pics above in every key .


The C Major scale ( key signature ) has no sharps or flats so is C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C . Each can be played as a chord , which was your original question I believe , so look at the charts for all the chords for each scale . If you don't want the 7ths , then simply play a triad ( 3 notes ) without it , so you get

C Major
D minor
E minor
F Major
G major
A minor
B Dim

or

D Major
E minor
F# minor
G Major
A major
B minor
C# Dim

All in the charts above .

Ok, I get it now. It was kinda confusing at first, I'm working through them all piece by piece.


Now for a final question. What are chords relation to scales.

Ok, I get it now. It was kinda confusing at first, I'm working through them all piece by piece.


Now for a final question. What are chords relation to scales.

I'm not sure how you mean that, but one thing I can tell you is that chords are harmonized scales. Take the C major scale, writen out on some staff paper. On the same staff, write out the same exact scale starting from the third note (the third of the major scale, or simply the major third). So you have, written out, C D E F G A B, and right on top E F G A B C D. Now on top of that, the same thing, but starting from the fifth note, G (the "perfect fifth" of C). So this new line is G A B C D E F. So all together it looks like this:

G A B C D E F
E F G A B C D
C D E F G A B

If you look, you'll see every column is a traid in the key of C major (the root note being the bottom note). If you want to get into seventh chords, to the same thing with one more line on top, this time starting from B (the major seventh of C).

Now for a final question. What are chords relation to scales.

Just sticking with the major scale, to make it straightforward, the basic chords we use in a given major key are made up by starting on each note of the scale, and playing every other note, ascending, for a total of three notes. That's what you had figured out in you post #20. It will be the same for each major key, I, IV, V, and ii, iii, and vi, plus the negelected viidim. The notes you are building upon of course change with each major key, ie, the F note in the key of C is F, whereas in G major it is F#, ect.

Is that what you were asking?

I've looked at that Circle of Fifths deal quite few times expecting some sort of "aha" moment, but it has yet to happen. I think I may have some sort of cognitive disorder.

There's more than one, I think I've had about 30 "aha" moments with that Circle. This applies to chord progressions, key changes, chord construction, "outside notes," you name it.

--gh

Just sticking with the major scale, to make it straightforward, the basic chords we use in a given major key are made up by starting on each note of the scale, and playing every other note, ascending, for a total of three notes. That's what you had figured out in you post #20. It will be the same for each major key, I, IV, V, and ii, iii, and vi, plus the negelected viidim. The notes you are building upon of course change with each major key, ie, the F note in the key of C is F, whereas in G major it is F#, ect.

Is that what you were asking?

Yes. But I don't exactly get it. Like some kind of road block in my head, not failure of explaining.

Yes. But I don't exactly get it. Like some kind of road block in my head, not failure of explaining.

Be patient with yourself. You just have to hear it a few times and think about it a little; it will click.

Try not to take too much in at once .

Start by understanding what makes a chord minor , and what makes a chord Major .

Understand what the difference is between a semitone and a tone is , then realise that all the Major scales are exactly the same as each other , and simply start on a different note , before using the same footsteps .

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B etc ... Notice in the C Major scale , that there are no sharps (#) or flats (b) . There are notes that have been left out inbetween :

C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C

Starting from C :

From C to D , we must jump over C# to get there . That jump over is called a TONE .
Same for D to E etc .
Between E & F , and B & C , there is nothing to jump over . They are next to each other . No jump . That no jump is called a SemiTONE . Some teachers call it Whole step , and Half step , and the distance between notes are what we call ' intervals ' ( Another story ) .

Look at the first C as being 1 , D being 2 , E = 3 , F = 4 , G = 5 , A = 6 , B = 7 , The second C = 8 , The second D = 9 , The second E = 10 , The second F = 11 , The second G = 12 , The second A = 13 , etc .

The above shows 2 octaves of the same scale . An Octave is the difference between the 2 C's ( to keep it simple ). The sound of the 2nd C is higher in pitch than the 1st .

To make a chord , we need at least 3 notes ( keeping it simple ) , and at least 1 of those notes must tell us whether the chord will be a Major chord , or a Minor chord . That note is the 3rd note of the Major scale .

Again , C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C) .

A ' C ' chord , or shall we say ' C Major ' chord to be correct uses 3 notes .

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

C-E-G = C Major .

For a chord to sound nice , we tend to use notes that are closer to one and other , regarding octaves , but any of the notes , in any octave , will still give the same chord .

For example

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

or

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

or

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

They don't have to be in the same order either .

The following examples are also a C chord :

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

C D E F G A B ( C ) D E F G A B (C)

The differences in order of the same notes are called ' inversions ' ( another lesson ).


Now then ..... what makes it minor ?

If we take the 3rd note ( E ) and make that note ( Eb ) , then we are flattening the 3rd note , and a flattened 3rd ( b3 ) , mixed with the other 2 notes , is what gives us a C minor chord .

C D Eb F G A B ( C ) D Eb F G A B (C)

C-Eb-G or 1-b3-5 = C minor
C-E-G or 1-3-5 = C Major

Also notice that where we once had a TONE / Whole step , between D and E , and Semitone / Half step , between E and F , those intervals have now changed once we flattened the 3rd note of the C Major scale .

Major scales and Minor scales have a different sequence of Tones and Semitones , and that's a whole new lesson :wink:

How do we make 7ths , 9ths , 11ths , 13ths etc ?
Fully understand everything else first :razz:

Ok. This is turning into more of "Help Intervenient get on the right foot thread". I have the basics of chords, what makes a chord, etc. Now what about scales? And riffs? And everything else?

This is a very good thread! Stuff that I think every musician should know. The basic theory behind chord/scales is so fundamental to music.

There is a direct relationship between chords and scales, as the previous posts illustrate. So, learning the basic chord shapes (and which note is which part of the chord) and scales is super-important. I think learning one key and all the different relationships will be beneficial because all the relationships in each key are the same as the next key. The relationships of scale degrees and notes in chords are all the same. The sounds of the relationships are also the same, relatively speaking.

Good stuff in this thread. Yup! Keep it coming!

C-Am-F-G..........(better known as.. I-vi-IV-V)

Am-Dm-G7-C..........(better known as vi-ii-V-I)

THE MOST COMMON PROGRESSIONS IN WESTERN MUSIC

Check out a book called "Theory for the Contemporary Guitarist." I forget the author, but it costs around $10. It does a good job of explaining chord theory and application from the very basics, and has enough information that I'm finding stuff to learn about even after 40 years of playing.

I haven't heard of this one but I do have a copy of Fretboard Roadmaps by Fred Sokolow. It's a pretty easy to understand explanation of things. It talks mostly about patterns on the fretboard and how to take advantage of them. In regards to the original post, much of this book is about movable chords and how to play any chord on any part of the fretboard. And once you have that chord, how to find the rest of the chord family without changing your left hand position. It goes over the circle of fifths, which can be a bit confusing although quite useful if you need to transpose a song. Anyway, I thought this was a pretty good book, and it was only 10 bucks. My only complaint is that I wish there was audio of some of the licks because my ability to read music is really not very good since I put down my sax in favor of guitar a few years ago.

I'm seeing a lot of different responses here that are all technically correct, but that would confuse the heck outta' me if I was 16 years old and trying to figure out what chords are and how they work...

Here is some of the stuff I use to teach chords. Hope some of it makes sense, and that it might be useful to any of the other teachers here too.

(And if you think I'm full of it, please feel free to let me know that as well! :oops: )

"A chord is a group of 3 or more notes that sound good played together..."

That is the definition of a chord that I learned at Berklee. Not sure if they still teach it like that, but it's worked for me.

Much rock music like the Who uses "power chords", which are only 2 notes (the 1st and 5th degree of the major scale). Two notes played together are technically an inteval, not really a chord by the traditional definition.

An interval is simply the distance between two notes.

In Western music theory, intervals are named by their relationship to the major scale (the "do-re-mi" scale), so a power chord is actually a 5th (do-re-mi-fa-sol).

Chords are defined by their "chord formula", which is written using intervals. A typical major chord contains the 1st, 3rd, and 5th scale degree of the major scale, so the formula is "1 3 5".

While there are lots of "chord charts" out there that require you to memorize hundreds of chords, I find it easier to just learn the basic 15 flavors first. The most common flavors are major and minor, but there are only 15 flavors total, not counting tension chords (9,11,13)

Once you know the 15 flavors, you can apply the rules/guidelines for tensions, and be able to build any chord you want on an as-needed basis. In my opinion, it's not necessary to memorize everything if you know now how to build the chords you need when you need 'em...

The original 15 chord flavors, with formulas:

Major (1 3 5)
Minor (1 b3 5)
Sus 4 (1 4 5)
Diminished (1 b3 b5)
Augmented (1 3 #5)
Major 6 (1 3 5 6)
Minor 6 (1 b3 5 6)
Major 7 (1 3 5 7)
Minor 7 (1 b3 5 b7)
Dominant 7 (1 3 5 b7)
Dominant 7 Sus 4 (1 4 5 b7)
Diminished 7 (1 b3 5 bb7)
Augmented 7 (1 3 #5 b7)
Minor 7 b5 (1 b3 b5 b7)
Minor-major 7 (1 b3 5 7)

Note that there is no "Sus 2", a chord often found on guitarist's websites... "Sus" is short for suspension, and technically a suspension has to do with how the melody resolves, not the chord... Most times when you see "sus 2", the chord they are looking for is actually an "add 9", i.e., a tension chord.

Only 3 types in my head Freddy .

Major
Minor

Anything else I look at as Dominant .

Can't remember why I adopted this line of thought , but it certainly made sense to me at the time , and works pretty good as a non confuser when trying to explain stuff to guys , and indeed myself lol .

Lots of other guys tend to look at it as the 4 ... Maj ... Min ... Aug ... Dim , but as long as it sinks in , then it tends to work good either way .

Only 3 types in my head Freddy .

Major
Minor

Anything else I look at as Dominant .

Can't remember why I adopted this line of thought , but it certainly made sense to me at the time , and works pretty good as a non confuser when trying to explain stuff to guys , and indeed myself lol .

Lots of other guys tend to look at it as the 4 ... Maj ... Min ... Aug ... Dim , but as long as it sinks in , then it tends to work good either way .

that's the way i think too, flat...great minds think alike? or fools seldom differ?

although, a guy like you is probably a fan of the m7b5, too right?:mrgreen:

this is why i think it's KEY to know how each note functions in a chord. again, knowing that an E is a sixth/thirteenth in the key of G allows me to get that sound wherever i want it.

that's the way i think too, flat...great minds think alike? or fools seldom differ?

although, a guy like you is probably a fan of the m7b5, too right?:mrgreen:

this is why i think it's KEY to know how each note functions in a chord. again, knowing that an E is a sixth/thirteenth in the key of G allows me to get that sound wherever i want it.

You know it's funny that you mention the m7b5 .
This for me is the one chord , that most guitarists don't have a firm understanding of , and i'll be bold enough to say probably rarely use .

Guys who have taken lessons may well come across it in the course of their studies , but unless they follow a particular style , they probably see it in a tab now and then , before putting it to the back of their minds .

This is probably due to the fact that the majority of us learn our instruments from what is on offer on the radio , records etc , as opposed to studying with a teacher , and because the majority of us don't use it often , it doesn't appear too often on the recordings of others either , as we mostly stem from the same place .

I'm as guilty as anyone , in that untill I tip toed through the theory tulips , and managed to be able to associate it in a proper context along side other chords , it really was a big weakness in my playing .

As you know , it's very common in more sophisticated styles , such as jazz , classical , acoustic , swing blues etc , but rarely pops it's head up in rock , country , general pop , or campfire type songs .

Regardless of whether we look at it as above , or in it's diminished form , it's definitely the one that got away for most of us , regarding simple chord forms .

Once our interest moves to harmonies , as we ' progress ' , it becomes used more frequently , as do many of the more altered forms of chords , which is kind of why I would try and get guys to embrace a little theory , regardless of age or talent , as to open the next few doors , it's kind of essential .

It once took me quite a while as a predominantly self taught player to realise that C and C Major were the same thing , simply because chords were either called C , or C minor , and never written as C Major .

Just one example of how simple things can be confusing for those of us that received no help in the early stages . :wink:
With enough enthusiasm and exploration , everything clicks eventually , but with a little help , it all happens so much sooner .

see, and i just figured you'd like it since your handle is the meat and potatoes of a m7b5 chord!

but seriously--can't have a minor ii V i without it...i think it's worth knowing.

Only 3 types in my head...

Major
Minor

Anything else I look at as Dominant...

Chord types and chord functions are different. Their are three chord functions... Tonic, Subdominant, and Dominant.

Each of the 15 flavors of chords will fulfill one of those three functions, depending how it's used, but there are still 15 chord flavors, not counting tension chords.

ps. m7b5 is a subdominant function chord in minor keys, dominant function in major keys.

see, and i just figured you'd like it since your handle is the meat and potatoes of a m7b5 chord!

but seriously--can't have a minor ii V i without it...i think it's worth knowing.

The blues scale :wink:
I, flat III, IV, flat V, V, flat VII.





Chord types and chord functions are different. Their are three chord functions... Tonic, Subdominant, and Dominant.

Each of the 15 flavors of chords will fulfill one of those three functions, depending how it's used, but there are still 15 chord flavors, not counting tension chords.

ps. m7b5 is a subdominant function chord in minor keys, dominant function in major keys.


Don't disagree for a second bud .

Question for our theory experts ... with a wink

Freddy wrote : Minor 7 b5 (1 b3 b5 b7) ( not aimed at you Freddy btw )

Can you explain why the m7b5 chord is written out that way ?

Example :

A Cm7b5 will not appear in the key of C , nor will a Dm7b5 appear in the key of D .

Instead , a Bm7b5 appears in the key of C , and is written as B-D-F-A .

B-D-F-A certainly isn't (1 b3 b5 b7) in the key of C :wink: Infact if we start on C , and harmonize the 7ths , then realistically , we get ( 7-9-11-13 ) once we land on the 7th degree of the Major scale . 6th chord anyone ???? :confused:


In the key of B , we get B(1)- D(b3) - F(b5) - A(b7)

So if a Cm7b5 is not in the key of C ( but C#) why on earth does it get the (1 b3 b5 b7) ?
This is a perfect example of why theory is a little confusing for most of us :lol:

Summary :
If the m7b5 is written as (1 b3 b5 b7) but never appears in the key of the ' 1 ' , then isn't the above spelling absolute hogwash ? :mrgreen:

Key of C

1 = C
b3 = Eb ( or should we say D# ? hmmm lmao )
b5 = Gb
b7 = Bb

But it's not the key of C is it lol . It's the key of C# , so why write it as though it's in the key of C ?

Answers please ( if you are brave enough lol )

Question for our theory experts ... with a wink

Freddy wrote : Minor 7 b5 (1 b3 b5 b7) ( not aimed at you Freddy btw )

Can you explain why the m7b5 chord is written out that way ?

Example :

A Cm7b5 will not appear in the key of C , nor will a Dm7b5 appear in the key of D .

Instead , a Bm7b5 appears in the key of C , and is written as B-D-F-A .

B-D-F-A certainly isn't (1 b3 b5 b7) in the key of C :wink: Infact if we start on C , and harmonize the 7ths , then realistically , we get ( 7-9-11-13 ) once we land on the 7th degree of the Major scale . 6th chord anyone ???? :confused:


In the key of B , we get B(1)- D(b3) - F(b5) - A(b7)

So if a Cm7b5 is not in the key of C ( but C#) why on earth does it get the (1 b3 b5 b7) ?
This is a perfect example of why theory is a little confusing for most of us :lol:

Summary :
If the m7b5 is written as (1 b3 b5 b7) but never appears in the key of the ' 1 ' , then isn't the above spelling absolute hogwash ? :mrgreen:

Key of C

1 = C
b3 = Eb ( or should we say D# ? hmmm lmao )
b5 = Gb
b7 = Bb

But it's not the key of C is it lol . It's the key of C# , so why write it as though it's in the key of C ?

Answers please ( if you are brave enough lol )

alright, my answer would be is that chord formulas have nothing to do with harmonization--just the relationships of the other notes to the named root.

if you harmonize the C major scale, you sure will end up with a B half diminished. the notes B D F A are in the key of C, as you point out, and the functions of the notes in the key of C are 7, 9, 11, and 13. but the relationship of those four notes to each other is what gives us the m7b5 sound.

this is why, as interesting as this chord might sound, C major is a totally safe choice for improvising over it, as all notes are "safe." mode fans will tell you they're playing "B Locrian." the melodic minor up a minor third is a cool choice too (so try D maelodic minor over a Bm7b5)

In classical music theory, we talk about events and their interpretations as being local or global. B D F A is 1 3 5 7 locally, but 7 9 11 13 globally. I can refine B D F A and say 1 b3 b5 b7, too.

This is a good way of looking at things in classical music because there is so much changing of key going on. A key change can be interpreted as a local event, as in C A D G chords or as a global event, as in the key of G sounding for 48 bars in the middle of a movement in the key of C.

Our ability to hear locally and globally is important. This importance is reflected in the notation that theory uses. Thus 7 9 11 13 can be written as 1 3 5 7.

Not at all easy to explain is it ? :lol:

That's why teaching yourself theory becomes a problem in the sense that when something doesn't make sense , there is noone to ask ... but yourself :wink:

A musician with an intermediate recognition of theory simply doesn't stand a chance on many aspects , and the above example , for me at least , highlights how overly complicated it can be , with a lot of analyzation ( analysation being the study of the ..er..ahem ... nearly messed up lol :lol: ) , backed up with inadequate knowledge .

Thank heavens most of it is fun :razz:

Local vs. Global... Great explanation Larry, thank you!

A few years after Berklee, where I had internalized the terminology "m7b5", I took a classical harmony class at a local college just for fun. That professor insisted we call the same chord "half-diminished".

Once, whilst standing at the blackboard doing a chordal analysis, I carelessly wrote "m7b5" instead of "half-dim", which prompted the professor to throw his conducting baton at me and start shouting... lol

I got all A's in my Berklee harmony classes, but I only got a B- from that baton-throwing "opera knotzi". It shook me up at the time, but in retrospect, it's a funny memory.

So if a Cm7b5 is not in the key of C ( but C#)...Actually, it would be in Db/Bbm, not in C#. Standard usage would require the Db/Bbm key siggie, to prevent having two C's (C and C#) in the diatonic key.

Thank heavens most of it is fun...Amen to that!

Local vs. Global... Great explanation Larry, thank you!

A few years after Berklee, where I had internalized the terminology "m7b5", I took a classical harmony class at a local college just for fun. That professor insisted we call the same chord "half-diminished".

Once, whilst standing at the blackboard doing a chordal analysis, I carelessly wrote "m7b5" instead of "half-dim", which prompted the professor to throw his conducting baton at me and start shouting... lol

I got all A's in my Berklee harmony classes, but I only got a B- from that baton-throwing "opera knotzi". It shook me up at the time, but in retrospect, it's a funny memory.

Actually, it would be in Db/Bbm, not in C#. Standard usage would require the Db/Bbm key siggie, to prevent having two C's (C and C#) in the diatonic key.

Amen to that!

Had a few drumsticks fly my way in the past lol .:lol:

Yes .. my bad .. Db ( not C# )

Where should I look for someone who can help me with this stuff 0__o

Where should I look for someone who can help me with this stuff 0__o"Chords" is just another way of looking at harmony. Try a local college that offers harmony classes.

While there's no guarantee that a college harmony teacher will actually have a clue, you can't teach at college without some kind of credentials. At the very least, the information should be more accurate than a random Google search, and hopefully better organized too.

Start with diatonic chords. 99% of all popular music stays within the realm of diatonic chords, and the more obscure stuff will be easier to understand once you have a solid grip on diatonic stuff.

This lesson at AcousticGuitar.com seems pretty good:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=22180

With my guitar students, I teach diatonic chords in 5 shapes, as it relates to the CAGED System (http://www.cagedguitarsystem.net/)... This includes Major, Minor, Diminished, Dominant 7, Maj7, Min7, and the beloved half-diminished (also known as minor 7 flat 5...)

I play mostly blues, which I have the scales down and I can solo pretty decently. What chords do I use and how do I use them in which key?

The basic blues progression uses three chords, the I, the IV, and the V chords, those being the three major chords in a given key. (Three major, three minor, and one diminished.)

These chords are played as 7th chords, for the jangly color, and also as higher extensions of the chords, 9ths and 13ths mostly, that just add more color tones.

So you just have to be able to figure out what are the I, IV and V chords in whatever key you are playing in. In the key of G, the chords are G7, C7 and D7 respectively, in the key C the chords are C7, F7 and G7. You can figure it all out from there.

There are other chords used, passing tones, and substitutions, etc. but start with the basics.

Did I answer your question? Do you need as basic 12 bar blues progession mapped out as a reference?

I got the progression down...

I just don't know how to make the chords 7ths :(

Do you play barre chords? Here are some of the more common grips for 7th and 9th chords:

G7: 353433 or 353463 or 3x34xx

G9: x2323x

C7: x3231x

C9: x32333

For D7 and D9, same as the C7 and C9 but up two frets.

Do you play barre chords? Here are some of the more common grips for 7th and 9th chords:

G7: 353433 or 353463 or 3x34xx

G9: x2323x

C7: x3231x

C9: x32333

For D7 and D9, same as the C7 and C9 but up two frets.


That helps. But what about in other keys. Is there a formula or a "flavor" like mentioned about that makes them 7th?

wow i just put my finger in the position thay are on my chord poster.
i think i need to take lessons cause i have no idea what yall are talking about.

That helps. But what about in other keys. Is there a formula or a "flavor" like mentioned about that makes them 7th?

A 7th chord, in common terminology means a dominant seventh chord, meaning you take a regular old three note major chord, such as C: CEG, or F: FAC, or G: GBD, and add to it a note that is 10 half steps above the root of the chord, hence: CEGBb, FACEb, GBDF. These are called Dominant Seventh type chords, as opposed to Major Seventh chords, which have an 11 half step, Major Seventh above the root. Like I said, we just like the color that the dominant seventh adds to the sound.

It is called a 7th chord because we build our regular three note chords by starting on each note of the scale, and play every other note for a total of three notes. The note you start on is termed the root, or 1 of the chord (we have no zero in music counting), and then you skip 2, play 3, skip 4 and play 5 (ascending), so each chord has a 1, 3, and 5. You can keep going and add 7, and go on and add 9, 11, and 13 above the root, and then the notes start repeating. That is why they are called 7th chords.

I terms of knowing them, just figure it out as you go along. In the blues box at the 3d fret, you are playing G blues. The I7 chord, G7, has its root on the 3d fret E string, the IV7 chord, C7, has its root on the 3d fret A string, and the V7 chord, D7, has its root on 5th fret A string. Go up the 8th fret, for playing C blues, and the respective roots C, F, and G will be in the same relative positions. Just figure it out one key or blues box position at a time. You'll have them memorized fairly soon.

http://www.cyberfret.com/chords/index.php

this site has helped me alot...

I've been trying to follow someone's advise, not sure if it was in this topic, or my blues one that said I should sing. I write my own lyrics, so I thought it was a great time to try my hand at combining my music with my words.

Not as easy as I thought. I must be the person with the least amount of musical talent in the world. My lyrics sound good by themselves, as does my guitar, but together they don't mesh. And I can't get a good melody to go with them for a dang.