OK, buyer's remorse (Ovation)

I bought a shallow-dish Ovation for about $500 on sale at Guitar Center last week. Sounds absolutely killer plugged in, which is why I bought it- also because the built-in amp had a tuner and some other pre-amp features that were really nice. But it sounds like crap unplugged, which is really bumming me out. I liked acoustic guitars like the Martins that I tried-- there was a DM for about $799 that sounded really, really nice, for example. I saw in other threads that folks like the DX1. But I need something that I can plug into the P.A. and sound good without too much fuss. If I can take the Ovation back to G.C., what would you recommend I trade it in for? I don't want to spend much more than I already have. They typically carry Martin, Tacoma, Yamaha, Takamine...if I don't hear from you guys I'll just go to the store and see what I can find on my own.

I would also be willing to buy a nice acoustic without built-in pickups and buy a soundhole pickup or some other aftermarket pickup. Is this a better way to go, and what aftermarket pickup system would you recommend. Is there a cheap condenser mike system that works well? Piezo usually sounds so fake to me...though some systems work better than others...

Help! I think if I take it back I can trade quick and get full refund on this guitar. Like I said, sounds killer plugged in but sounds like crap unplugged, which I thought I could handle but in retrospect am not happy about.

Now that you know flashy lights,bells & whistles dont necessarily equal good sound , you should go
back & play as many flat tops(acoustically) as you can & make a decision on what your ears tell you; then
add a nice mic/ transducer (Schertler,I-Beam,etc...)

Don't know if GC carries it but my son just purchased an Alvarez PD80SC... it sounds great unplugged or plugged in, built-in tuner and electronics. Good price. He's had Yamaha, Ovation, Fender, and Martin accoustics and likes this one the best. I admit I was impressed when I heard it during the holidays.

sounding good through an amp doesn't mean it will sound good through a PA.

I'd get an acoustic you like, and then add the pickup system.

I use an inexpensive acoustic, a good soundhole pickup and a outboard preamp. I can get good sound through a PA without much problem.

A lot depends on how fussy you are about the PA sound. I am not super picky, and have found from experience that most people in the audience can tell it's an acoustic and not much more. I try to get a good basic acoustic sound and then focus on my playing.

Cheers
Matt

acoustic/electric that doesn't cost much more than your Ovation, it's the DCX-1E. Has Fishman electronics & a solid spruce top. Musicians Friend has them for 699.00. This would be my choice, you'd get a good acoustic electric that would sound nice unplugged... plus it's a Martin and would hold resale value. I'm almost positive I've seen them at GC. Check it out.

I have heard that takamine makes good electric accoustics, never played one. I have a 1981 takamine d-18 clone, that has a great neck, and good sound. Not sure if new takamines have the stuff though.

Chris wrote: "I bought a shallow-dish Ovation for about $500 on sale at Guitar Center last week. Sounds absolutely killer plugged in, which is why I bought it- also because the built-in amp had a tuner and some other pre-amp features that were really nice. But it sounds like crap unplugged, which is really bumming me out."

Just a note....thin-bodied acoustics are meant NOT to sound good unplugged. This results in a guitar that gives fewer problems when amplified simply because the sound chamber is smaller and therefore interacts less with amplified soundwaves. A larger-bodied guitar will exhibit more feedback problems due to the larger sound chamber. The better the guitar is acoustically then the more problems one will have when amplifying the guitar.
It sounds to me as if the Ovationr does exactly what you want it to do...or what you stated above as your reason for buying it. If simplification of amplification problems is your aim, that thinbody may actually be what you want, especially if you are looking to play at higher volumes plugged in.
My preference is to have as good of an acoustic guitar as possible and then deal with whatever sound problems arise. The other side of the coin is that under-the-saddle transducers negate some acoustic qualities by breaking the contact between the saddle and the bridge and therefore with the soundboard, so I never put that type of pickup in a great acoustic for my personal guitar. I like the acoustic sound too much to limit its possibilities.

Many Ovations sound great plugged in; they should, that's what they're designed for.

I've never played ONE--including their higher end models with solid tops--that could come close to an entry-level Martin, Taylor, Larrivee, etc.

I don't like 'em unplugged. Give me a flat top (and flat BACK!) any day!!

-eric

Some very good sounding guitars are available in your price range. The Martin -15 series are all solid mahogany and are a great value. Some folks are put off by the fudgsicle look, though. The new Taylor 110's are very good. I've picked up half a dozen in various GC's and not a single one has been a dud. I think they're about $529? Also the Taylor 214--a Grand Auditorium size for around $700. The Tacoma Chiefs can be very nice too in that price range as well as Tacoma's EM-9.

Add a transducer pickup if you don't like the piezo quack--look at Pickup-the-World or the McIntyre Feather pickup. They won't carry them at GC, but you can find sources online. Or use a magnetic soundhole pickup if you don't mind the somewhat electric sound. You can get a very decent amplification option for around $100.

Dick Thaxter

Thank you , thank you! I went to G.C. and tried a bunch of guitars.
I was leaning very much towards the Martin DX1 or whatever it is-what a great
sounding guitar for the money! Also the Martin DM.
But then one of the guys pulled down a Tacoma
Model 8238 dreadnought off the wall-- 100% solid wood throughout, abalone inlays,
a real work of art made in Tacoma, Washington. It was one of the best sounding guitars
I had played that night, and I had been trying everything in the store- top of the line
Martins, Gibsons, Taylors, etc. Listed at $1899, they were blowing it out at $826
with case because it was the last of a discontinued model. I couldn't say no...it is by
far the best acoustic I have ever had in my life.

Your input on a good pickup system would be appreciated...I'm going to wait a month or
two before taking the plunge. I was even thinking that maybe it would be best to buy a
nice large-diaphragm condenser mike, and put it on a stand in front of the guitar. I noticed
that's what they did on the "O Brother Where Art Thou" concert DVD...but perhaps it is
much easier to avoid feedback when you don't have electric guitars and amps and drum
kits sharing the stage.

Congratulations on finding a guitar that you like. If mobility and loud volume are not issues, a good mike is the most accurate way to reproduce a guitar's sound.

I'm mainly an acoustic player and I've tried everything in the last 10 years....this is my experience.

As someone said, Ovations are guitars designed to play plugged. As simple as that. They would sound bad unplugged. For gigging, they're great: light, loud, and almost zero feedback (I'm talking here about the American made ones in fiber, not the plastic-Asian imports). If you're to use it for gigging, keep it. You're likely to gig always plugged. Epiphone and Electar make cheap and reliable acoustic amps that you can use for practice.

I personally don't like Ovations because they feel uncomfortable despite of their sound. It just a personal feeling. So, I went the next route: I got a Takamine. Nice guitars but I didn't like the under-the-saddle pickup. IMO, they sound weak and "false"...it's so hard to describe a sound. However, they're affordable and they'll serve you well when gigging. Recording is another story.....

I sold the Takamine and got a Fishman Rarearth sound-hole pickup and put it on my beloved Epiphone. That did it!!!! The sound is unbelievable, so real....It sounds exactly the same as unplugged, but louder, whether I use a PA, an acoustic amp; and I've even experimented with my electric amp, a Vox pathfinder 15, with great results. It ain't cheap, though, but if you can afford it, I recommend it. I'd never go back to under-the-saddle technology.

Chris,

You beat me to the punch - I was going to tell you to check out the Tacomas! I went acoustic shopping a couple years ago and was pawing through Taylors and Martins, playing them all. Each one left me wanting. Some of the Taylors were nice but not for the price. Then this little 'parlor body' guitar caught my eye. It was a Tacoma EM9C, cutaway, solid top, Fishman 'tronics. I picked it up - wow - light as a feather. I played it unplugged and just fell in love with the tone and sustain. Just unbelievable in a guitar a third the price of any similar sounding Taylor. I snapped it up. Sounds good amplified but needs a feedback buster in the soundhole. I actually have great straight-into-PA luck with my Fender Telacoustic! For those who just want in incredible acoustic guitar the Tacoma dreadnaughts are wicked nice. I just don't like dreadnaught bodies.

Methos

Don't get a large diaphragm condenser unless you are playing on a quiet stage and the soundguy is your employee working with an excellent PA.

Otherwise you'll just be in feedback and bleed city.

There are a lot of good options in aftermarket amplification systems. The two I like are the B-Band UST (about $100 with endjack preamp) and the L.R. Baggs Dual Source (about $225, but you get both an undersaddle ribbon and a condenser mic with the ability to blend them). Neither system has the "piezo quack" and both sound very good with no big mods to your guitar (small hole under the saddle and the endpin is replaced with the preamp and jack).

I found the I-Beam to be good but too feedback prone. The Rare Earth system sounds great, but for the price, I prefer the Dual Source.

I'm not a fan of the Takamine or Ovation pickups, and I've had iffy luck with Fishman piezos. The more recent ones are much better, however.

The soundhole pups made bt Duncan,and Markley are cool,and you can get any $15. feed back buster and cut it in three pieces(taking out the center for the pup)and put it around the pup,eliminating feedback.

I will admit that I'm partial to Martins. I have 3 of them, 1 being a DX-1. Many of the durability qualities in an Ovation can be found in a DX-1.

The top on a DX-1 is solid Spruce with X Bracing but the sides and back are Martin HPL (High Pressure Laminant).
The sides and back are made of composite that is covered with a wood tone covering. The neck is made out boltaron which is real wood, impregnated with bonding composite making it indestructable. Neck is attatched by mortis and tenon. Gun stocks on VERY expensive guns are CNC cut from boltaron, it is a very sturdy, time tested, manufactured material.

Despite all the space technology, it sounds like a traditional Martin. I refused to take my D-15 or OM 16 GT out into WI winters so I bought my X box as a winter beater. I love it. They are fantastic guitars and fantastic values.

Check this out.....
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/DCX1E.htm

If you call the price will be below $699.00 - they can only advertise as low as $699.00 on the internet.

I have this one....paid $425.00 - lifetime warantee!
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/DX1.htm

my 5 cents. John

http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/products/acousticdescr.shtml#mag

This is the finest sounding acoustic guitar p/u.

I have a Tacome EM9 non-cutaway with the LR Baggs factory system and it is one of the best guitars I've ever played in my life.
Great sound,plugged or unplugged.

I recently bought a Shure KSM109 mic from AMS for $179.00.

I can't recommend it highly enough.
I use it with my Guild JF-30,my various Resonator guitars and even the Tacoma.

Its the best mic I've ever heard.
I perform with it,even with my 100 Watt powered monitor right up under it,it does not Feed back.

Be careful when you pick out a pickup for the soundhole.I've seen LOTS of awesome guitars sound like crap.Especially in the Bluegrass scene.Even a vintage Martin or Gibson,Taylor or expensive custom will sound awful with the wrong pickup.
Lots of players try to buy a great sounding guitar(some will spend REAL money too!)but because they are not "pro" or don't need a lot of "volume" they buy a 100 or less sound hole thing.And it just sounds awful.There are plenty of great sounding acoustic rigs plugged and unplugged.Just don't assume that popping a $100 pickup into your sound hole is going to sound good.It will be louder.But it won't be the same sound you hear in your house acoustically.