Attenuator for DeVille 410

Ive recently acquired a Deville 410 and find myself looking to purchase an attenuator and am looking for suggestions. Ive got my eye on a Weber with the speaker motor type, but cant figure out which to get? 50 watt version or the 100 watt version? I dont think I'll ever have the amp up to 12 even with the attenuator...but the Weber site says I should get a 100 watt version if Ive got a 50 watt amp...but then Ive read reports of people using the 50 watt version with the Deville(which is rated at 60 watts) and this kinda confuses me.

So any recommendations for an attenuator, Weber or other?
Or can you point me to a used Blues Jr for $200??? :mrgreen:

Amps used to be rated for wattage BEFORE the onset of overdrive/distortion/clipping.

This is why speakers (and attenuators) are recommended for at least 1.5 times the wattage (if you play overdriven).

In any case, you DeVille has a Master Volume. If you need crunch before your ears bleed, this should help. If you want to try to hear it "au natural" turn the pre/gain down, max your Master and slowly crank the pre/gain. I haven't seen a schem for a DeVille, so I'm not sure if the preamp is cascaded, diode clipped, or otherwise "crunched" up, but this is the best way to hear the spectrum of it's power section.

If you want a natural 6L6 cranked vibe, it'll be hard. 6L6's were often chosen for their big power and cleanliness. Most circuits Leo designed were aiming at clean powerful volume. In any case, attenuators (like Overdrive pedals) still color the end result in some way (perhaps different than MV or OD pedals).

The Weber, with their speaker motor, will give you more give-and-take of a cranked amp, but will still color the end result.

Try ODs, MVs, and attenuators with every amp you own and find the best solution. They're all good and bad in some ways.

Hey thanks for the response, but Im totally aware this(or any attenuator) is gonna suck some tone...but I just wanna get these tubes cookin a lil and not peal the paint of mah walls. I know its a big ol amp to ask for bedroom levels...but where else am I gonna get this kinda low end? And Im not taking the cheaper/less effective way out and buying a "volume box" or pedal...or even a resistor type of attenuator...

I just happen to notice that the Telecaster forum has much love for the Deville and figure theres gotta be a few members who are using(or have used) attenuators on their Deville "and have found 'X' attenuator to work quite well" and am looking for some pre-purchase advice.

I also notice(I browse alot of guitar forums for info) that the Weber brand of attenuator is very popular among HotRod owners, I assume this is because of Justin's HRD pages, so Im open to other brands/suggestions.
But Deville owner postings about attenuators and usage are sparse...and the same attenuator that works for a 40 watt Deluxe might be different for the 60 watt Deville and this is the kinda knowledge Id like to have beforehand...and there is a decent price difference between models of attenuators, so input would be appreciated. Cause if Im gonna spend $250 for this, a Blues Jr sounds better and better...but for the time being Ive got my focus on an attenuator(read: the less exspensive the better).

I've got a 212 Blues Deville and I use one of the $20 volume boxes. It works like a charm and really only sucks tone at true bedroom levels. Anything higher than that and the tone is the same as without it; it just gives you an actual volume knob instead of the Fender volume pot, which is little more than an on/off switch.

Get the 100 watt Weber Mass as a Deville is a 60 watt amp. You'll keep the bugger forever and can use it with any amp regardless of wattage. You can dial it down pretty low but that's not the point. You want to the volume at a reasonable level with great tone and no pain. Too much attenuation will squash the sound....but a Mass can drop you to 1/3 the volume and still sound great.

I'm a big fan of Weber's Mass attenuators. Personally, I like driving the amp to a reasonable level to get the tubes working AND using some overdrive or clean boost to push it a little more. The two together work wonders. To me, a Fender isn't really working properly until it's up around 5/6....and that'll hurt without attenuation. The net effect is that that cleans will have a little grit on them....if you dig in, you can get a great rhythm tone....and the overdrive gets you really rockin.

Hope that helps

I just picked up the 50w for my DRRI. Now I only tried it last night but I think I was mistaken in what I expected it to accomplish. I wanted to be able to get the sounds I get when it's on 5-8 but not to wake the family. It did cut the output but the amp was still loud. Before I knew it the wife was telling me to turn it down.

I'll try it again tonight but I don't think this will help me at home. I do however see it being useful at a gig.

I wanted to be able to get the sounds I get when it's on 5-8 but not to wake the family.

Yeah.....it'll drop your volume but not enough to be that quiet without completely squashing the tone. It's really not the intent of the product.

I know that any amp at all will bother my wife if she's not in the mood for noise.

For that quiet practice time, you probably want a little headphone amp, a cheapo multi-effector with a headphone out, or a little practice amp with headphone outs.

Yeah I hear ya. I'm going to use it at rehearsal tonight so that will be a better test. So it's back to the microcube for at home practices

Amps used to be rated for wattage BEFORE the onset of overdrive/distortion/clipping.

This is why speakers (and attenuators) are recommended for at least 1.5 times the wattage (if you play overdriven).

In any case, you DeVille has a Master Volume. If you need crunch before your ears bleed, this should help. If you want to try to hear it "au natural" turn the pre/gain down, max your Master and slowly crank the pre/gain. I haven't seen a schem for a DeVille, so I'm not sure if the preamp is cascaded, diode clipped, or otherwise "crunched" up, but this is the best way to hear the spectrum of it's power section.

If you want a natural 6L6 cranked vibe, it'll be hard. 6L6's were often chosen for their big power and cleanliness. Most circuits Leo designed were aiming at clean powerful volume. In any case, attenuators (like Overdrive pedals) still color the end result in some way (perhaps different than MV or OD pedals).

The Weber, with their speaker motor, will give you more give-and-take of a cranked amp, but will still color the end result.

Try ODs, MVs, and attenuators with every amp you own and find the best solution. They're all good and bad in some ways.


Just my opinion on 'power soaks':

"Players may have a temptation to use a Power Attenuator between the amp and speaker. However, this is not the kindest way to deal with the problem. It will cause your power valves (tubes for our American readers) to run down very quickly. And, equally important, will destroy the VERY important interactive communication between the speaker and output transformer... probably 95% of the reason why valve amps sound the way they do.

The output transformer allows the speaker to introduce mechanically induced harmonic distortions, which DO NOT come from the valves or rest of the amp. Break or interfere with this coupling and you remove the important 'current feedback' the amp's speaker delivers to the output transformer to create the sounds you hear. The tone could sound cold and sterile. Put nothing between the amp and speaker is my best advice!!"

If you need to just reduce the fierce action of the amp's Master Volume, like it's nearly full output when only on 1, then insert something like the 'SoloBooster' into the effects loop to tame this and make the amp more usable in domestic situations.

I've got a 212 Blues Deville and I use one of the $20 volume boxes. It works like a charm and really only sucks tone at true bedroom levels. Anything higher than that and the tone is the same as without it; it just gives you an actual volume knob instead of the Fender volume pot, which is little more than an on/off switch.

Which make 'volume' box is it you have? URL please?

Hey thanks for the response, but Im totally aware this(or any attenuator) is gonna suck some tone...but I just wanna get these tubes cookin a lil and not peal the paint of mah walls. I know its a big ol amp to ask for bedroom levels...but where else am I gonna get this kinda low end? And Im not taking the cheaper/less effective way out and buying a "volume box" or pedal...or even a resistor type of attenuator...

I just happen to notice that the Telecaster forum has much love for the Deville and figure theres gotta be a few members who are using(or have used) attenuators on their Deville "and have found 'X' attenuator to work quite well" and am looking for some pre-purchase advice.

I also notice(I browse alot of guitar forums for info) that the Weber brand of attenuator is very popular among HotRod owners, I assume this is because of Justin's HRD pages, so Im open to other brands/suggestions.
But Deville owner postings about attenuators and usage are sparse...and the same attenuator that works for a 40 watt Deluxe might be different for the 60 watt Deville and this is the kinda knowledge Id like to have beforehand...and there is a decent price difference between models of attenuators, so input would be appreciated. Cause if Im gonna spend $250 for this, a Blues Jr sounds better and better...but for the time being Ive got my focus on an attenuator(read: the less exspensive the better).

There is nothing available that will make your amp sound like it's on full bore at low volume. Why? Because it's the human hearing that makes it sound 'tinny' at low volumes!! Google 'Fletcher & Munson' for far more info on the 'psycho accoustic' effects of the human ear and brain on your hearing response!

You can only hear mid-band frequencies at low volume... the bass is around 86dB down!! It's not until the sound pressure level is at about 120dB, that your hearing is equally responsive to all frequencies... and this depends on the quality of the individual's hearing anyway.

You cannot ever achieve what you're looking for! It's a scientific fact... unless someone here know of a way to reprogram the human brain?

Sorry to be so blunt about it... but I think I've explained this a zillion times... yawn! :wink:

Stewart, the point you make about the OT and the speaker is food for thought definitely. Contrastingly, I have had pretty good results with the DR Z airbrake, a very simple design but it works great and it only starts killing tones at extremes. The "bedroom" knob would be appreciated by our OP.

The "bedroom" knob would be appreciated by our OP.

The first man/woman who comes up with such a device, will be quickly very whealthy! Sadly, there is more chance of you and I sailing to Mercury in the Cutty Sark! (When it's repaired of course) :wink:

Which make 'volume' box is it you have? URL please?

If you need to just reduce the fierce action of the amp's Master Volume, like it's nearly full output when only on 1, then insert something like the 'SoloBooster' into the effects loop to tame this and make the amp more usable in domestic situations.

You'll find the URL for the volume box I use with my 212 Blues Deville below. It goes in the effects loop like your other post suggested. I'm amused that people dismiss them and then go out and spend $100 bucks on things that don't always work so great. Like I said, what I use works like a charm and only chokes off tone at really, really low volumes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VOLUME-BOX-FOR-FENDER-HOT-ROD-BLUES-DEVILLE-DELUXE-TWIN_W0QQitemZ200236366456QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10171 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i used a weber minimass for a while and liked it. I've seen those attenuators that you insert into the effects loop and am curious, but i know pretty much nothing about electronics, circuits, etc. Do these things really work? How do they work? I would assume that if it doesn't generate a lot of heat it would strain some other component of the amp. anyone? anyone? bueller?

You'll find the URL for the volume box I use with my 212 Blues Deville below. It goes in the effects loop like your other post suggested. I'm amused that people dismiss them and then go out and spend $100 bucks on things that don't always work so great. Like I said, what I use works like a charm and only chokes off tone at really, really low volumes.

Thank you! This is just a simple volume control that is designed to work properly... unlike the half baked ideas for a Master Volume that Fender's designers (and others) think people need!! I'm sure they think kids will exclaim... "WOW, look how loud this amp is - and it's only on 1!!!"

To be honest, these boxes are nothing more than simple volume controls. One of them is able to be footswitched in and out to allow soloing behind a vocal. But basically, they do similar jobs except for the live application and rugged design.

However, the 'choking off' the tone as you describe, is not due to the boxes at all... it's to do with the human hearing being very mids sensitive at low volumes. Nothing can be done about this, sadly.

Here's some pics to give an idea of what's out there.

If that volume box goes in the effects loop, then correct me if I'm wrong, but its just a volume pot acting as another master volume. The volume is decreased before hitting the power amp, thus, the power tubes never get baked. So your still just running off of pre-amp distortion, not power tube distortion.

If that volume box goes in the effects loop, then correct me if I'm wrong, but its just a volume pot acting as another master volume. The volume is decreased before hitting the power amp, thus, the power tubes never get baked. So your still just running off of pre-amp distortion, not power tube distortion.

That is correct.... but O/P stage distortion not there aim or purpose! They either make the existing MV more controllable or, enable the player to switch between two volume settings. It looks was quite clear to me, that they are not trying to be power attentuators or output tube fryers!