Thoughts on gigging without an amp

I'm a tone snob. I'm a tube amp fan. I have a pair of oddball little antiques that I love. I've had a booteek and several vintage amps over the years. I've tweaked 'em and had 'em modified.

However, I've had some issues when gigging in my cover band and have come to the conclusion that I need to run through the PA and just micing my amps isnt gonna cut it, unless I go with a 5 watt amp. Our last show I couldnt hear the other guitarist who was playing through a Delta Blues, he couldnt hear me (I was on a 5E3 head through a 2x12 and a 20 watt 1x10). We're not a high-volume rock band, we do weddings, parties and other such events. We gig on a monthly basis and are gearing up to do more. Stage volume has been a difficult issue for me, as my amps have kept up with the PA as far as volume so far.

Our new guitarist (former guitarist who has rejoined, we let the other guy go) plays through a DigiTech GNX3 to great results. He runs through the PA and you can hear him perfectly in the monitors and mains. Our new drummer uses a Roland electric drum kit through the PA. Our keyboards run through the PA. The vocals (all 6 of us contribute vocally) and acoustic guitar run through the PA. And I have a pretty good PA with enough channels for us all.

So I traded my way into a Vox Valvetronix Tonelab SE, the big one with two expression pedals and a 12ax7 you can see in a nice little window. I've used modelers lots, I have a DigiTech RP100 that I got when they first came out and have used it for practice, recording and occaisionally at jams, my BOSS recording device has a built-in modeler that I use all the time. I find that you can get great tones if you use a little self control on the settings. I'm programming the Vox still, havent used it at practice yet. This coming saturday will be its first time with the band. But I used the RP100 at our last band practice with great results.

I know, this is an amp forum. Loads of you gents will think this is folley, and I'm one of you. But we are a cover band, playing things like "Don't You Want Me, Baby", "Rock This Town", "I want you to want Me", "Are You Gonna Be My Girl", "Stacy's Mom", Beatles songs, Grateful Dead songs, and a killer verion of "The Time Warp". Our audiences don't care whether my tubes are RCA (My 5E3 has a full set from the '50s) or Telefunken (as are in my Teisco, along with some GE preamp tubes). I've always been able to accomplish my tonal needs with a tube amp, a couple of overdrive pedals, a wah and chorus. But this way I carry less to the gig, I already own the PA and haul it. I can set up quicker. And I can hear myself in the mix the way the crowd does.

Has anyone else gone this route, go this route from time to time, or done this and returned to the realm of the amp? I'll follow up with how it goes this weekend.

If you have an acoustic kit plus bass amp onstage, I prefer an amp.

But in your case, since everything is through the PA, I would almost recommend going straight in - even balance and spread across the room, no loud spots in front of the stage/quiet to the side.

I've been playing in church and of late *prefer* my pedalboard>Sansamp Blonde>PA over my bootek tube amps on 1.5 fed through the monitors. Consistent and good sound, analog feel.

Have not done a blues/funk/soul/rock gig with a live band with guitar going to PA, well at least not by choice!

I think for what you're doing it's perfectly fine.

I've done some gigs with a POD right into the board. It's a good sound, but I miss the punch and sustain I get with having the amp right there. It sounds good on the audience side, so it's just me.

......Our audiences don't care whether my tubes are RCA (My 5E3 has a full set from the '50s) or Telefunken (as are in my Teisco, along with some GE preamp tubes).

Thats it - right there !!, they don't know and whats more they dont care either, they aren't there to listen to some 'tone snob' (your words) demo his gear.
With that in mind, i have had some good results with a PodII straight into the board but the band had a great monitor engineer and i had my own mix so it was almost as good as having the amp beside me, almost, but not the same.
Like in ear monitors, unless you are going to do it well ..... don't bother.

That 'controlability' is the great thing, you can create a good mix without a lot of interference from each other on stage but it is never going to be the same as having your jeans flapping in the breeze from a 12" speaker.

After that success i was tempted more and more to use it but unless the PA and person that ran it were up to scratch i had pretty poor results, i should say at this point -- I am exclusively back to using amps on stage !

If you really, really, really can't get a satisfactory mix in the club it might be worth a go but perhaps you could borrow a PodII or similar first ?



I'm always fascinated to hear this type of story from the US, i can't believe that you get such level from a 20watt amp or the folks who think a DRRI is too 'loud' for some clubs, is music more regulated volume wise than here in the UK ?
I have been auditioning amps here and much as i loved the tone of the DRRI it didn't come close onstage and as for these tiny tweed things .......
a 15watt anything, even on top of a 4x12 cab just ain't going to be moving that much air is it ?

Let us know how your experimenting goes .......

I think it's a great idea. No judgment from me :)

1. The crowd won't know the difference.
2. If you can dial in good sounds, your playing won't suffer (sometimes when you hear great sounds from the amp, it inspires you even more).
3. It'll likely help the singer. Having to cut their ears through the stage racket to hear themselves, etc.
4. It'll probably reduce the amount of gear you have to bring.

I'd bring a backup though - just as you would with a normal amp setup... maybe an amp and a few pedals.

Its not that clubs don't want you to play loud, this band has been playing weddings, private parties, fund raisers, etc. Not bar gigs, yet. Those audiences don't want it as loud as a club. Once we start going with the bar gigs, we'll probably run into different issues.

Use the search function for either the Morley, or Award JD-10. There's a lot of us here that love this device. I play a lot of gigs with it going straight to the PA, using the JD-10's wonderful speaker simulation. Add a little 'verb, and you're good to go. I leave the channel EQ set flat, and maybe cut the highs a bit. It sounds like a miked up amp, and feels almost like a tube amp when you play. The biggest downside is that you have to have your guitar pumping through the monitors, and vocalists will complain (unless you're the lead singer too - like me!). I also like to EQ the monitors to make my guitar sound STELLAR but it always seems to make the vocals sound worse - but that's OK. I don't need my vocals to sound stellar in the monitor. I just need to know if I'm singing on key.

In front of the JD-10, I'll use my old Rat pedal - the only pedal on the floor (the JD-10 sits on top the amp). And that's it. Maybe a Dan-Echo, or something similar but that's all. If the onboard reverb is livable, I'll usually just go with that. I like to keep it simple as possible. I use this set up for everything - blues, rock, country, etc. etc....

The biggest downside is that you have to have your guitar pumping through the monitors, and vocalists will complain (unless you're the lead singer too - like me!).

that's always been the deal-breaker in my situations. vox and git are the same general frequency range, and one robs the other unless you have sophisticated monitors.

personally, i can live with the sound of the guitar direct, but have never once gotten the feel i get with an amp.

I play in a band that has to play everything from national folk to rock.
I had hard times with amp and pedalboard before. Then I found a used GT-6. It's great. I have all the effects I need and I don't have to carry heavy boxes.
I love the tone from my tube ammp and my pedals, but with this band I don't have to have that great sound. I just have to play.
One day, I hope I can have a band playing my stile of music and then I'll maybe use my tube rig to get "my sound".

those tonelabs are nice. a buddy of mine has one and i haven't had much of a chance to play with it yet but there's alot there. effects and amp emulators, i'd be willing to bet you can get pretty much wherever go want to go with that thing.

I think giging without an amp makes sense. In your case you already have the perfect reason to do so,'cause your drummer is already digital.
Is he running an onstage full range powered monitor ? ,Or does he depend on a monitor submix for his sound ?
If theres not a lot of SPL on stage it makes everyones lives easier if the guitar is not so loud.
I work with a couple of bands that are a combination of digital and analog , some acoustic instruments and voice with MPC, so half the band is totally PA dependent for its sound while the bass and guitar are using amps, usually overly loud amps. It ain't always ideal as the monitors need to be turned up to compete with the amps. If you have a real monitor situation with a few different monitor mixes and the right preamps you can make the no amp thing happen. No doubt you would be happier with your guitar coming out of an amp, but , I know that I'm tired of slugging it out with bad amps and or people telling me the guitar is too loud on stage. If you have something you like in front of the board I think you can make it happen.
I use a couple of different "front ends". They all work if the monitors are right.
I also have been flying with a SS amp that doesn't require a load so that I can use it as a preamp, (it has extensive voicing and channel options) with no cabinet on stage. It works if the monitor guy is on task, but can be a real PIA if you find your self with a monitor tech. who is 3 days into a 4 day festival and asleep on his feet. Sounds like your the monitor guy in your band so as long as you carry monitors you should be able to make it work out. You may sorta be trading one job for the other as its likely you will find yourself carrying more monitors. Let us know how it turns out. FWIW around hear lots of folks go the non-amp route on the party band circuit.

I'm always fascinated to hear this type of story from the US, i can't believe that you get such level from a 20watt amp or the folks who think a DRRI is too 'loud' for some clubs, is music more regulated volume wise than here in the UK ?

I have been auditioning amps here and much as i loved the tone of the DRRI it didn't come close onstage and as for these tiny tweed things .......
a 15watt anything, even on top of a 4x12 cab just ain't going to be moving that much air is it ?

Count me in the group where a dimed 20-30 watt amp CAN be too loud for the venue. I don't usually play concert halls, or large venues with stages, lights and a curtain. At most of my gigs, I play corner bars, where the "stage" is a cleared space back by the restroom where the pool table used to be. I'm there to help the bartender and waitresses sell beer. If they can't hear the patrons talking, then I am too loud. When push comes to shove, I'm background noise. 4x12 cabs? Stacks? 100 watt amps? Not in my world. I'm just a run-of-the-mill working musician, workin' the average joe dives.

And yes, there are noise ordinances here in the States, especially in pubs or other venues that border residential neighborhoods. They don't want the cranked amps blasting out the doors at 11:30 at night. A bar owner can lose his live entertainment permit real quick by running afoul of that.

So I use a 35-watt silverface Vibrolux Reverb, which seems to be the perfect amount of power. I never really have it above 5 or 6 max, and I've had it down as low as two (on my 100w Mesa Boogie, I could never even get it off 1). If I need the VR to be louder, then it's time to mic it, like when I played to 600 people at the Street Fair last week.

Ive done my PODxt live ..direct to the house P/A with excellent results...Monitors are crucial though..as usually the P/A speaks all are pointed away from the musicians..and sometimes in front.

I gig every Thursday night in a restaurant, in a duo with my brother, and run my bass into a Yamaha Magic Stomp modeler. Works great, sounds great, everyone is happy.

I gotta say, though, that onstage volume problems can often be mitigated by AIMING the amps (after mic-ing them, of course). There is no rule that says you have to line the amps up behind you, parallel to the front of the stage. I'm a HUGE believer (need to diet and exercise!) in putting the amps on the sides of the stage, aimed in at the center. It's amazing how much better everyone can hear what's going on when the speakers are aimed at the band's EARS!

But musicians are amazingly conservative about doing something out of the ordinary like that. "It doesn't look right" "That's not the way I do it" etc, etc...

Sigh...

But it WORKS!!!

Cheers, Tim

whatever works is what works best.

personally, for me, I couldn't do it.

years ago I traded a pile of junk for a Cyber Twin and having messed with that enough I reckon it's just too much hoo-hah because all that distracts
me from what I enjoy which is playing my guitar in a loud amp situation.

but I digress.

I'd agree with Ms Crow: if it makes you happy.. it can't be bad!

I play in a large church where we have exclusively gone direct. I play a POD
X3 Live with in-ear monitors. I can't tell you how sterile that experience is. There's absolutely no feel, no soul, no smiles involved. As others have said, it's all about the PA and the sound man, if you have one. There's times I want to just grab and shake our sound man. Personally, if I had my choice, I would never play direct again...no matter what the situation.

As for the volume of mid sized amps, I don't get it. In a club sized venue or even a decent sized pub, my DR will hurt your ears. I rarely need much more than a DR. I'd rather have a DR turned up to 8 than a 40 watt whatever dialed down to 3-4.

For a short time, I played bass in a 4 piece band (covers of most varieties). The REAL problem was the young guy who THOUGHT he knew it all about running the PA/monitors. I went thru 2 amp set ups and it was maddening to me to deal with his ignorance!. So, I bought myself a POD XT (for Bass), tweaked out about 8 programs and ran direct into the PA. We had Yamaha 15" monitors and that worked out well onstage. Used 1 set of JBL JX2x15 cabs fro fronts. WHEN I COULD HEAR IT, the bass sounded great. Here again, it was this jerks' ignorance that ruined the whole thing, ended up leaving after a few months and sold all my bass gear.

IMO, if you can get the kind of tones you want, then go direct and enjoy it! I've always wanted to try having a full band going direct, with electronic drums and PODs. It would make things so much easier to set up and balance out! Go for it!

I'm sure that with a decent multi-effect or modeller (and that Vox looks about as good as they get) you can get all the decent tones you'd need, and sending them to the PA for dispersion and monitoring seems like a great idea. But then everything is dependent on the soundman and your monitoring capabilities.

If you're limited to one monitor mix, singers are not likely to be happy with the situation if the guitar is all over their vocals, and you'll not likley be happy without any monitoring at all.

If the soundman is the bar-owners buddys' brothers' step-son with no experience, no one is likely to be happy.

My current band is a trio with a moderate PA with a single monitor mix. I have plenty of bass power, so we place my amp behind me and a secondary cab across stage to fill it out. Guitar player uses a good multi-effect, which he plays through one of my amps for monitring purposes, and we use the direct out to add the guitar to the mains. If we had a second monitor mix, he'd probably be OK with no amp. Drummer is a Bonham/Appice disciple that's striving for more subtlety and smoothness in his style--so he's loud, but getting better control.

I guess I'm thinkin': if you can make it work for you, go for it!

Count me in the group where a dimed 20-30 watt amp CAN be too loud for the venue. I don't usually play concert halls, or large venues with stages, lights and a curtain. At most of my gigs, I play corner bars, where the "stage" is a cleared space back by the restroom where the pool table used to be. I'm there to help the bartender and waitresses sell beer. If they can't hear the patrons talking, then I am too loud.

Thanks for that Tele295, gigging in each others country would be such a great experience, i definitely am just a 'working guy' too but our experiences are very different in some ways but very much the same in others.
There are some music pubs here where the volume just takes your face off, folk still stand at the bar and get served, i can't begin to think how ?
Yes, some venues have limiters but they are not the norm in my experience.
Generally speaking though i'm sure when it comes to a 100+ seater or whatever the differences aren't so wide.
We tend to work 'one nighters' here too rather than the US thing about playing in one club for a residency, that has to be nicer, set up your gear once and time to get used to the room too.
I'm bouncing between the SuperSonic and the Boogie depending on the gig but certainly if i worked with the other guys again i would pull the PodII out from the studio and toss it on the passenger seat ..............Mind you, the thought of a little tweed something and a mic stand does sound a bit like an easy life to me !! --- count me interested.

I say use the modeller but run a second out into a champ or small tranny amp as a mini "monitor", so that if the monitoring is bad you have your little helper pointing at your ear.

I might go ahead and bring my Teisco, its 20 watts and has tilt-back legs, use it as a monitor, just in case there are any uber-elite amp-snobs who wanna talk shop between sets. I can point at it and makeup some BS about how Howard Dumble said those are the worst amp he'd ever seen and so I had to use one and that all I use the VOX for is the tuner....:razz:

Tilt it back and point it towards me, keeping the volume down so I can have a guitar-only sound source.

If I were doing that sort of cover band, that's just what I'd do. Amp tone on stage is, I think, more about how you hear yourself, and the touch response, than anything else - the audience usually won't know the difference between an eighty-dollar transistor amp and a 4K bootik box.

A friend of mine plays in a top-40 band. He plays a Cyber Deluxe, the other guitarrist a Vetta. Everything goes through the PA, and they have in-ear monitoring; everyone can adjust his own custom monitor mix, immediately on stage - the mixer sits right in front of the drummer.

He has a huge midi floorboard. Push this button, instant 'smoke on the water.' Push that one, pick-whatever-you-want. He says their stage volume went way down once they started playing this way, and since they could hear each other, they also started playing better. I think it's perfect for that use. Does he have better tone than me? I don't think so. Would my rig sound good in his band? No way.

I don't play in that kind of band. I don't need that kind of instant versatility. But I see why he needs it, and a 'normal' tube amp doesn't work so well for that use. He tried a lot of different amps before he settled on the Cyber Deluxe.

Oh, and my 5e3 and 18-watter are too loud for most of the clubs we play. Outdoor gigs are a different problem. I'm thinking 6aq5's might be the solution for me. Or maybe EL95s. With 6SL7s and a big coke-bottle 5U4.

Or maybe a Boss FDR-1 through the PA, that might do it, too.

steven

If you can get a tone you like going straight through the P.A., by all means go for it. Like tele95, I prefer the overall sound of an amp right there with me, but that's just me. And while I tend to agree that if sounds good to the audience all is well, it's got to move you into your groove, too.

You can always have your own personal monitor made to look like a tweed amp or any other kind of amp. Just have PA speakers loaded into it. Or one speaker that can cover the full sound spectrum.

stick with your amp and set up your amp beside the guy with the killer toned delta blues....... now you two can hear each other..........let the pa will do the rest.........keep it simple enjoy ..........

You can always have your own personal monitor made to look like a tweed amp or any other kind of amp. Just have PA speakers loaded into it. Or one speaker that can cover the full sound spectrum.

I use one of those, it's called a Princeton Reverb!

:mrgreen:

Cheers, Tim

When I was still living in Perth W.A., I played in a trio (me, singing guitarist and a female singer) and the other guy freaked out at volume- had only done karaoke before, but got heaps of gigs.I thought that going direct into the PA was the way to go. But I found getting even patch volumes, etc, was a complete PIA. So I got a little amp to kinda "soften" the variations. (Peavey Rage 15watt practice amp) I found it made me feel more connected to the sound.
And when your playing live, the audience can't tell a Cunetto from a Cimar. But they can tell when you are (to quote Zappa) "grinding sausage".

I have a friend who has a band. He has a pair of stacks (one for his Roland VG88, one for his GT8), the other guitarist has one, and his son, the drummer, drowns them out. And I've never heard them where I could hear the vocals at all.

Until last night. I stopped by where they were practicing, which is a teen ministry hangout place the bassist runs. And they were running entirely through the PA. And I could hear the vocals! First time! Yay!

I am an "Amp Guy". Always have been. I like to keep it simple, too. Just a tube amp, a couple of OD/Dist boxes, a smattering of chorus, wah, delay or Q Tron that all stay "Off" for all but 1 minute or so per set. I'm a traditionalist that way.

I've used modelers for recording and practicing, LOTS. But going live that way is new to me. So I'm gonna have fun with it.

I programed the Tone Lab totally simply, and managed to come close to my sound with the '50s 5E3 Newcomb PA head & Cannibas Rex 2x12 rig I usually use. I created 4 sounds to accomplish the sounds I need for our next show (Three 1 hour sets). Funny, I'm using the JCM800 model with the gain down to 2.

I'd never play a gig without an amp.

I saw "1964 The Tribute" a famous Beatles Tribute band and they went with ToneLabs. The only things on stage were mics and an acoustic drum kit( w/ triggers). They sounded just like they did with the AC- 30's---------but it looked SO WEIRD-------Maybe musicians were the only ones that noticed----of course I always liked seeing all the vintage gear ----so it was kinda of drag for me. But I bet the roadies LOVED IT................HA!--------Cheers!-----JIMO

Where's Stewart Ward when ya need him???

Somewhere on the 'net I was reading about a Shadows tribute band that had made the decision to not use amps on stage and go direct. Apparently the POD thing wasn't getting it, and Stewart Ward had designed a JD-10-like device that simulated the Vox AC-30 sound just for this purpose. I also read that he sold those things like hot cakes in the U.K. but I don't think they made it over here in the States. Obviously I'm nuts about the JD-10, and I can't help but wonder what THIS gadget was all about.

Stewart - where are ye???

Thats it - right there
I'm always fascinated to hear this type of story from the US, i can't believe that you get such level from a 20watt amp or the folks who think a DRRI is too 'loud' for some clubs, is music more regulated volume wise than here in the UK ?
I have been auditioning amps here and much as i loved the tone of the DRRI it didn't come close onstage and as for these tiny tweed things .......
a 15watt anything, even on top of a 4x12 cab just ain't going to be moving that much air is it ?


I doubt there is much of a national difference :!: but age and experience certainly play a part.

I have been using a BFDR with a JBL E120 for over 20 years as my main stage amp. While it sounds great turned up, I really can't stand to be in the same room with it when the volume goes above 6. I have never needed to turn it up past 5 and so I only get a small amount of distortion - which is just fine, I am not very interested in overdriven tones. That isn't what I do.

As a matter of preference, I just can't stand playing or listening to very loud music. If I needed a 50 or 100 watt amp to get over a rhythm section, then for me that rhythm section is just way, way too much. Others might like it but I have to leave the room.

I admit bafflement at my fellow guitarists who can actually play a Marshall 50 watt head turned up to 10. I couldn't be in the same county with that rig, I'd be in pain. When I think of the stage levels for many bands, I just wince. I can't do it, it's no fun for me at all.

Still, no one thinks of me as a "quiet" guitar player, since I don't play in rock bands - I have done loads and loads of country, rockabilly, folk, bluegrass and blues. And I am sure I have lost my share of my hearing at age 49 (almost 50)!

Its not that clubs don't want you to play loud, this band has been playing weddings, private parties, fund raisers, etc. Not bar gigs, yet. Those audiences don't want it as loud as a club. Once we start going with the bar gigs, we'll probably run into different issues.

i used a j-station on the road for a few years and it was especially good when we had little time to set up/tear down as an opener...and with in-ears it was a BIG sound! BUT besides missing all of the obvious things we all love about amps (pant legs flapping/old tubes/blahblahblah), THE one thing that surprised me most about the direct rig is that on some stages (and with certain lights or neon) the FOH sound coming out of that little tiny piece of modern guitar technology (combined with my stacked pickups) was WAY noisier than my 42 year old amp and my single coil pickups :shock:

especially the wiring some clubs have...bad stuff! in fact, our steel player is currently shopping for a new fx rig cause his old rackmount is giving every FOH guy the same "sizzle" my j-station sometimes had...it's like the noise they pick up (or generate?) doesn't have a loud guitar signal comin out of the speaker to cover it up in the mic line like a good old amp with a tubescreamer does...IT JUST INCLUDES IT "LOUD N PROUD" IN THE MIC LINE MIXED WITH THE GUITAR SIGNAL...doesn't want your guitar playin to interfere with it's noise-to-signal ratio :sad: :wink:

i've heard those tonelabs sound GREAT and i believe it, but you might have a mic handy for the teisco OR definitely have a noise-fighting alternative when you hit the clubs again...just in case...

i'm no howard dumble, but i hope all that made sense...it's late :lol:

I suggested in another thread that a modelling/effects processor was a good way to go in those cases where you need a range of sounds. Man, I got slammed hard on that one. It's nice to hear the digital dudes speaking out.

I used a cheap little RP50 through the PA for a few years while jamming with some friends. It takes a while initially to get the sounds you want, but after that it was great. It was easy to balance the volume with the other guys (analog bass and drums, digital keys). But then I put together a "real" band with more experienced players, and I was concerned about imposing on everyone by running through the PA. So now, I haul more gear, and I'm rarely satisfied with volumes or sound.

My Tele through my Roland Jazz Chorus sounds great at home, but in the band, playing all those covers, I think I'll go back to the Digitech.

I suggested in another thread that a modelling/effects processor was a good way to go in those cases where you need a range of sounds. Man, I got slammed hard on that one. It's nice to hear the digital dudes speaking out.



You will always get slammed for stuff like that...

All of us guitar players are often too traditional, close minded, and sometimes downright rude/arrogant. I've been guilty of being a rude gear snob too often (I'm working on it though).

Use what works for you, ignore the snide remarks.

I'm sure Son House was glad for the invention of guitar amps so he could actually be heard over the ruckus of a barrelhouse or juke joint, but I bet he was real unhappy with how "weird" amps made his guitar sound for a year or two :)

I'm sure the elitist Jazz snobs turned their noses up at those damned kids turning their amps up too high and getting a distorted "broken amp" sound. Long haired, suitless, hippies :)

I'm sure Charlie Patton and/or Blind Lemon Jefferson would vomit at the mere sound of Stevie Ray Vaughn.

Do what makes YOU happy and ignore those who slam you hard.

Where's Stewart Ward when ya need him???

Somewhere on the 'net I was reading about a Shadows tribute band that had made the decision to not use amps on stage and go direct. Apparently the POD thing wasn't getting it, and Stewart Ward had designed a JD-10-like device that simulated the Vox AC-30 sound just for this purpose. I also read that he sold those things like hot cakes in the U.K. but I don't think they made it over here in the States. Obviously I'm nuts about the JD-10, and I can't help but wonder what THIS gadget was all about.

Stewart - where are ye???

OK... I found you Bro!! You could have dropped me a mail??

Back in around 1993/4 I designed a direct box for electric guitar, same footprint as the JD10, but prior to, called the 'MatchBox' MB10. Basically, it had a gain control, the EQ circuit from a Fender Twin with only the treble control (mid & bass fixed for simplicity) and the first use of the G12T speaker simulation - each section selectable. Anyway, to cut the story down to size, the digital revolution finally caught up with everything analogue and we had a load 'stuck' in the store room assembled and in part assembled form.

A band from North London called 'The Rapiers', Britains leading Hank and the Shadows tribute band, were asked to perform in 'Cliff, The Musical' in London's West End theatre-land as The Shadows. They turned up for rehearsals and were told that they could not use their 40 year old AC30s on health and safety grounds (apparently they were liable to catch fire!!) and also, that because the stage was so close to the audience, there would be sound spill problems with live amps. So they were given PODs to use.

Now PODs do have an AC30 model... but it's the wrong sound... so useless for this gig. It's based on the Top Boost models, not the earlier 'Normal' or 'Treble' AC30s which was the backbone of The Shadows original and 'British' instrumental tone.

The early Shads stuff was recorded using either the Normal channel or the Bright channels - the Bright channel being just the Normal channel with bass cut applied (not Top Boost). For example, Wonderfull Land was recorded using the Normal channel and bridge PU of a Strat. The Normal channel of an AC30 has a conpletely flat response. Incidently, the AC30 was primarily designed with an electric accordion 'culture' in mind, and AC means ACCORDION, so guitar was a secondary thought at that time!

To the point, Colin Price-Jones, lead guitarist (Hank) of The Rapiers knew I had been making some great sounding solid state Shadows sounding amps called AceTone and The Stockton, and approached me for help.

I knew exactly what to do... I converted some of the Matchboxes to sound right for Shadows stuff direct to PA or tape. They were over the moon with them as they 'nailed' that early sound. The rest, as they say, is history... we sold bucket loads of them to elderly gents for their home studios! In the end, the component stock ran out and I made the decision that we'd not make any more due to the fact that it was a small market and we'd end up with more parts left over. At least this way we had got rid of our left over stock and made a few £££ on the way.

If you'd like to drop me a mail at info@award-session.com, I'd gladly send you an MP3 of a test recording of 'Sleepwalk' using the actual boxes supplied to them. Matchbox was set for 'flat' response and only the G12T was engaged for that authentic and essential 'Normal' channel tone!

Hope this answers you question.

Stew, not making them anymore?

Do you have a few left/available?

Stew, not making them anymore?

Do you have a few left/available?

Hi Johnny,

I'll drop you a PM on this.

Stew, not making them anymore?

Do you have a few left/available?

Yeah Stew - there's probably at least a few of us here that would take 'em off your hands! :wink:

So glad to have you here BTW Stew! I've been such a huge fan of your JD-10 for years. I just wish that it was more readily available to the public here in the States.

I play bass in a cover band with a similar set list, and I have, on occasion, played through a Sans Amp Bass Driver DI box straight in to the PA. It certainly makes for an easier load-in and load-out! The only reason I don't do that everytime is that in some situations I have trouble hearing myself. When I use an amp, it's my stage monitor AND my FOH sound, and infinitely more controllable on the fly than fussing with a PA board.

Lately, my cover band (The Bafflers) has taken to playing ampless on stage. The drummer uses acoustic drums, usually not miked. The bass player runs direct into the board. I run my guitar into my pedalboard, then into a Digitech RP-50, set to a tweed simulation, with reverb and a small amount of delay, then into the PA. It works for us, everybody can hear, and we don't get the usual 'the guitar's too loud, turn it down' junk.

When I play out as a sideman, I usually take my Gibson GA-20 (15 watts, class A). Nothing sounds like tubes.

Randal Smith alias Smitty the Kid
"We have enough Youth, how about a Fountain of Smart?"

I use one of those, it's called a Princeton Reverb!


Guess I used the wrong term. I should have said a speaker set up the can handle both high and lows in case he was also playing acoustic stuff. Electric/Acoustic guitars don't sound very good through guitar amps.

Yeah Stew - there's probably at least a few of us here that would take 'em off your hands! :wink:

So glad to have you here BTW Stew! I've been such a huge fan of your JD-10 for years. I just wish that it was more readily available to the public here in the States.

Thanks for your kind words... we lurrrrv you man! But like my post said... we sold out completely and we'll not make any more. Just not cost effective. Sorry.

JD10 is available in USA!!! At a good price too!

http://www.pedalgeek.com/cgi-bin/new_shop.cgi?config=&uid=W22h7QAA1195547349&uzc=&command=link--as

Sorry, did not mean to advertise, but it's quicker to deal with your comments this way, and I don't have a load of time for forum stuff!

Take care and have fun!!