back in the fold again (Guild content)

for a long time, i've been out of the acoustic world and playing the Tele exclusively. tonight, i realized you CAN go home again!

in '91, my wife found "a beat-up old acoustic guitar that sounds pretty good" at a yard sale in Boulder for $150. like the jewel she is, she paid the money and asked questions later ... brought it home and i figured, well, it's the thought that counts.

turned out it was a '72 Guild with a deep, rich sound yet plenty of high end. kind of a combination of an old (pre-50s) Gibson and a well-seasoned Martin. but the top was pulling up at the bridge and it was awful hard to play.

about seven years ago, i opened the case and was aghast to find the headstock had popped clean off! had it glued back on by my old Tele doctor, but year before last, it popped off AGAIN. so i pretty much gave up on it.

last month, i was thinking, dang, i need an acoustic for the studio projects i'm cooking up. should i drop a thousand bucks on a Chinese guitar that might sound decent after i'm too old to play it, or try to salvage the ol' Guild? i took it down from the barn rafters and it reeked of mildew. but i figgered, get some advice and see if it has a prayer.

so i took it to a gig where a couple of buddies who really *get* acoustic guitars -- Jack Lawrence and Michael Reno Harrell -- were playing. Mike said he knew an old man (76) up in Burke County (near Morganton NC) who specialized in refurbishing old wrecks, and he took the Guild up there to get it worked on (Mike lives nearby).

i got it back tonight -- cost me a whopping $75 -- and it was just like red slippers on Christmas mornin'. not only does it still sound fantastic, but it's actually playable now! i was bowled over ... i realized that it wasn't that i had disconnected with acoustic guitar, it was that i wasn't connected with the right acoustic guitar. if the neck holds (i think he put dowels in), i'm home again. yeah baby!

but as you can see, it has the old-timey worm-gear tuners ... hold tune fairly well, but they rattle!

so my two big questions are:::

* do i have a prayer of finding retrofit tuners that might avoid drilling the headstock? i would have to think long and hard about drilling a headstock with such a fragile history.

* how to get the MILDEW out of the body and the case??? this is huge.

anywaze, here's a few pix -- pardon the flash photos, but i couldn't wait til morning to enthuse about this. the back of headstock shows how it's drilled ... in the front headstock shot, you can see the fracture line. the old man made a truss-rod cover for it, not entirely symmetrical but better than having none at all, as i received it :::
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Hey man...

How's about something like these...??

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Economy_3-on-Plate_Tuners.html

On second thought those might be a little "budget" for a nice guitar like that. I'll bet Stew Mac has some better alternatives...

Hey man...

How's about something like these...??

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Economy_3-on-Plate_Tuners.html

hmmmm ... looks like they might fit, but i'd still be in the same ol' mess: crappy tuners. maybe i'll look into what Guild did when they went to a better class of tuners, in the off-chance they may have gotten something that would fit necks they already had made and drilled ... but of course i know zip, zero, nada about acoustic hardware. it may be a long slog figuring it out!

hmmmm ... looks like they might fit, but i'd still be in the same ol' mess: crappy tuners

Yup... True enough.

My Guild F-50 has Grover Rotomatics on it... I doubt They'd fit yours without some tweaking though...

right, Rotomatics are a whole different scheme. something similar to a 3-and-3 version of Klusons might work, where one screw holds two keys, but as i say, i'm clueless and will have to educate myself.

in the meantime, the dang mildew problem is such that my beloved made me take it out and put it in the car we never drive so's to keep the spores out of our living habitat. it's bad -- down in the body of the guitar! and the case reeks to high heaven. gotta try and salvage the case, cuz it would cost too much to replace it.

make a dilute bleach solution, put it in a windex bottle, and mist the guts of the guitar and its case....

That should fix the problem as well as help humidify the guitar...

I think there is a fumigation type product that can kill mold in an area. As for the tuners...you mention that they hold tune ok but make noise. Perhaps a good lube might help? Maybe tightenting down all the hardware? I have a nearly identical Guild. It had some tuning key rattles as well. I used tee-tiny nylon washers to help alleviate the rattle.

I'm very glad this old gal is seeing the light of day again! =jason

That's one nice-looking Guild (I have a soft spot for Guilds, though I've never owned one). I hope the headstock stays put this time! If it were mine, I'd wait a bit and see if the headstock is stable, then I'd consider swapping the original 3-on-a-plate tuners for a nice set of Waverys (http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/4060) from StewMac (they'll cost more than the guitar itself!). I think one of these would look awesome:

http://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1sm/4065/Waverly_Guitar_Machines_with_Ivoroid_Knob.jpghttp://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1sm/4071-G/Waverly_Guitar_Machines_with_Snakewood_Knob.jpghtt p://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1sm/1129/Waverly_%27Vintage-oval%27_Tuning_Machines.jpg

Woodman,

I think you can get some help over on www.letstalkguild.com.

Don Laidler is the list owner/admin over there and a good guy. He sells Guild parts at discount.

Ed N.

love the look of those Waverys! gonna wait like aunchaki sez, make sure she holds, before getting too froggy, especially where the headstock is concerned.

today i left the case out from early morning to dusk in direct sun, turning it often to try to get every square inch at least a couple of hours. even put the guitar out for a *short* time early this morning before the sun got hot.

i believe i'll go the bleach route echale is talking about ... about a 10% solution, that sound right?

jason, are yours 3-on-a-plate tuners? how did you rig the washers?

another issue i forgot to mention is, i need to put a strap button on the body. when i got it, it came with a woeful macrame strap tied in a series of knots around the headstock -- i suspect this may have been a factor in weakening it to split. like an ignoramus, i used it that way for years. but now i need to figure out how to attach one to the upper bout without wrecking it.

now i need to figure out how to attach one to the upper bout without wrecking it.

If I understand where the Upper Bout is, I'd highly recommend AGAINST that. I'm assuming you mean the curved area above the neck where it meets the body. In other words, where the strap button is on a Les Paul.

I'd put it either on the neck heel facing the floor (as you hold the guitar standing up) or on the heel facing straight back (as you hold it). Either way it's going into solid wood, which is what you need.

Good luck, keep us posted!

You can buy fairly inexpensive drop in tuning pegs for that guitar at any reputable guitar store that fixes guitars on a regular basis. Then if the guitar holds true, I would buy a nice set of tuning pegs after I was sure the guitar had stabilized. Last time I bought a set of tuning keys like your guitar has they only cost 29.99$. Sure they were cheaper pegs, but they were a helluva lot better than the rattly-bent ones on the guitar. They worked for as long as I had that beat up old guitar.

Woodman, I wish you could somehow identify the mold. I'm no expert, but I do know there's risk of some nasty health issues with mold.

As far as clean up goes, most cities have companies like Servicemaster who do flood and fire salvage. They deal with mold. Your insurance agent probably knows a bunch of them. You might be able to get some info that way, maybe ID the stuff, definitely some guidance on killing it off.

Your local health department might be a good resource, or they might seize it and burn it. No kidding.

I'd put it either on the neck heel facing the floor (as you hold the guitar standing up) or on the heel facing straight back (as you hold it). Either way it's going into solid wood, which is what you need.



good advice! when i thought about it, it made perfect sense. like i say, i'm not exactly well-schooled on the acoustic front!

ed, appreciate the tip on the Guild board. i'll be knockin' on their door tomorrow! thanx

Grape seed or grapefruit seed extract(I can't remember which) will also kill mold...and it doesn't have any odor. Do a search for "kill mold" or "mold removal'. I'd be worried about the caustic nature of bleach.

Pricey, but I think Waverly makes 3 on a plate tuners that just might fit...

I had a D-40 for almost 27 years...put the strap button on the back of the neck heel, so it was facing straight back at me...never had a problem...

Congratulations on a sweet '"new" guitar!

Pricey, but I think Waverly makes 3 on a plate tuners that just might fit...

I had a D-40 for almost 27 years...put the strap button on the back of the neck heel, so it was facing straight back at me...never had a problem...

Congratulations on a sweet '"new" guitar!

so, did the guitar have pretty good balance when you played standing up with that placement?

Pricey, but I think Waverly makes 3 on a plate tuners that just might fit...

I saw them, as well, but they're for slot-head guitars. The posts are different than on the solid back-to-front kind.

this morning i made a 10% Clorox solution and sprayed down the outside of the case with a fine mist bottle. then i wiped the body and neck down with a cloth barely dampened with the 10% and immediately wiped it off. next, i took the mister and sprayed the plush in the case to kill the lurking spores ... it turned the blue plush slightly purple, but that's the least of my worries. also tried to mist/wipe inside the body because there was *major* reek inside, but was hindered because my huge hands would only go so far through the soundhole.

that bugged me, cuz i know the worst of it was inside, so finally, i stuffed a small pill bottle with a rag, saturated it with 100% Clorox, and placed it inside the body (without the cap, of course), then covered the soundhole with a piece of cardboard. my hope is that the fumes will build up and kill whatever's lurking in there -- those Clorox fumes are some mean stuff!

p.s. -- ed, i registered at the Guild board this morning ... seems like a cool place. appreciate the tip!

Woodman,

Glad I could help--they're kindred spirits. :smile:

Ed

so, did the guitar have pretty good balance when you played standing up with that placement?

The tough thing about that placement, is that it lets the guitar pull too far forward, and if the guitar were ever to fall backwards, even in the case, you'd run the risk of splitting the heel. You can also split the heel during installation, if the pilot hole isn't big enough!

I've seen plenty done that way that are fine, and more that have split.

I'm way more of an acoustic guy than an electric player, and work in an acoustic guitar speciality shop. This is where I would recommend installing the strap button (and the only place we'll do it at work):

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/GenSetup/StrapButton/StrapButtonViews/heel.JPG

(Thanks to Frank Ford at Gryphon for that pic!)

As for the case - getting mildew out will be much tougher than getting it out of the guitar. You can get a decent, made in Canada hardcase that will fit the Guild like a glove for under $100. You'll likely never get the smell to leave the fabric inside the case, and it will keep perpetuating the smell on the guitar. Your headstock repair was cheaper than most luthiers would charge for an hour of bench time...I'd take the savings and get a new TKL or Tamarkin (both Canadian) case for it.

As for the guitar - some folks think that activated charcoal or baking soda work well. A good cleaning of the exterior with a soft rag and guitar polish, a fresh oiling of the fretboard, and a sachet of charcoal or baking soda in the soundhole will go a long way to helping the situation. It's more than likely that the guitar has just picked up the smell of the environment - the moldy case, much like some old Martins reek of the smokey bars they were played in for years.

If the headstock was glued and clamped well, it should hold for a long time - if it has been repaired with dowels or carbon fiber rods, it should be stronger than it ever was.

I'd advise against Grover Rotos. The new ones aren't the same as the ones of the past, and all of them - classic or new - are really heavy. The Waverlys are the best, but they aren't cheap. Gotoh make a nice tuner, but their classic looking ones are only so-so. The 510s are world class - you'll find them on $7k guitars - but they have a very modern look. The Grover Sta-Tites are ok - not too expensive, and way better than their Rotos.

Good luck - those Guilds are neat guitars!

I agree about ditching the case and getting a new one. It would be hard to get all that mold and nastiness from the case, and you might be making your guitar mold worse by allowing the case to continually saturate your guitar. My sister and her family lived in a house full of mold, and it had such severe health effects, that they had to move. They were all experiencing headaches and flu like symptoms.

That Guild will have some real meaning to you now. I love mine, especially my '75 D35. Definitely get a new case for your guitar, it deserves it, with all the work you've done, had done, and are contemplating doing.

so, did the guitar have pretty good balance when you played standing up with that placement?

I agree with reson8 on the placement--on the underside of the heel (see a few posts above for excellent pic). I have one acoustic with the strap button in this position and another with it sticking straight back out of the heel. I definitely prefer it on the underside of the heel. For me, the straight-back one has a tendency to roll forward on my ample tummy. This is just one reason I don't have an Ovation; two rounded surfaces don't play nice together.