question about different bigsby options

First off, forgive me if these questions are rather obvious or have been addressed on this forum before. I searched around through most of the bigsby threads already and still haven't quite found the answers I'm looking for so here we go:

I'm very interested in installing a Bigsby on my Mexican Tele, but I'm struggling with my different options. I've been browsing around online and on Ebay and seem to be finding several different products.

1. Just a straight up Bigsby B-5 tailpiece like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigsby-Fender-Tele-SG-Guitar-Tremolo-Chrome-USA-B5_W0QQitemZ160241775241QQihZ006QQcategoryZ22669QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638 Q2em118Q2el1247

It appears to me that this comes just with the tailpiece, no new bridge plate or bridge or anything else. This also appears to be the option that requires the most modifications, ie neck shimming and filling string slots into the bridge.

2. There seems to be several different variations of bigsbys, both genuine products and licensed ones. Some come with new bridges, like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigsby-B5-Tremolo-Bigsby-Bridge-Combo-Chrome_W0QQitemZ170156928999QQihZ007QQcategoryZ414 07QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp 1638Q2em118Q2el1247

I was also looking at the Fender kit http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigsby-B5-Telecaster-Guitar-Vibrato-Kit-Fender-Logo-NEW_W0QQitemZ370056327902QQihZ024QQcategoryZ41407Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This is another licensed product, and I was reading that Doeringer is pretty good stuff. http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigsby-Tele-Conversion-Kit-w-B5-Tremolo-Chrome_W0QQitemZ170155104481QQihZ007QQcategoryZ414 07QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp 1638Q2em118Q2el1247

3. Last link I swear. I was especially interested in finding out if anyone has had any experience with this product. http://www.zzguitarworks.com/servlet/the-78/guitar-bridge-telecaster-bigsby/Detail I'm curious how it exactly stays firmly in place with it only mounting onto what seems to be the bottom strap peg.

So those are all the options I'm looking at right now. I know as with anything else there's multiple ways of doing things and there's really no correct answer. I was just wondering what methods other people have used in the past. Is it best to just get a straight up tailpiece and do the necessary adjustments to the guitar, or are these licensed products worth the extra money to not have to make some of these modifications? My other question is, how difficult is it to install something like this? I have experience with power tools and I know my way around the guitar somewhat, and I would really like to know how to do this myself.

Sorry that was kind of long winded, if you've read this far thank you for doing so, and I appreciate any insight or advice on this. Thanks.

T

That last option is a new one on me. I like the fact that you don't drill holes in the front of the guitar, but that is a lot of money. In fact all the options you linked seemed overpriced. If I buying one I'd probably go for the Fender "F" B-5 kit ............ but at a lower price. I've seen them.

Here's one closing tomorrow ........ currently $66 with no reserve.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FENDER-BIGSBY-B5-TELE-TELECASTER-CONVERSION-KIT_W0QQitemZ190224997271QQihZ009QQcategoryZ7266QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ah, that's a good price I will definitely keep my eye on that auction, thanks! I really wish I could find some kind of review or even a video of that zzguitarworks product in action, does anyone happen to have any knowledge or experience with the EZ-mount system?

Hi, Dillinger,
I've got a '73 SG, a custom tele I built, and an Epiphone Wildkat with Bigsbys.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/519/medium/custom_metallic_white_tele_body.jpg

One thing to keep in mind that Bigsbys are a pain to change the strings with. You develop little tricks, but I would guess it takes about twice as long as changing strings on a strat or a tele, etc.

I've never seen that EZ mount system before. At first glance I would guess you have to reach back further to reach the arm.
Take JWells advice though, and look around at prices before you pull the trigger.
Good luck.

It looks like the "ez mount" system still has the bosses for the B-5 type top mounting screws. I do like the looks of that where it wraps over the top, but I'd be inclined to use a couple top mounting screws as well- but the price? Give me an original B-5.

Now I haven't done one yet so I don't know the details, but when I do, since I like the wrap over the body I'm gonna investigate one of the other Bigsby's and see if it will fall into place. I think I can make it work.

what kind of bridge is that? Is it the fixed mustang from warmouth? I have the buzzing issue with my 50's RI CIJ and I'm trying to fix it with a new bridge.

Thanks

thanks

Hi, Dillinger,
I've got a '73 SG, a custom tele I built, and an Epiphone Wildkat with Bigsbys.

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/519/medium/custom_metallic_white_tele_body.jpg

One thing to keep in mind that Bigsbys are a pain to change the strings with. You develop little tricks, but I would guess it takes about twice as long as changing strings on a strat or a tele, etc.

I've never seen that EZ mount system before. At first glance I would guess you have to reach back further to reach the arm.
Take JWells advice though, and look around at prices before you pull the trigger.
Good luck.

...............since I like the wrap over the body I'm gonna investigate one of the other Bigsby's and see if it will fall into place

If I can ever find a B-16 at a good price I may cut it up and try something like this. However, I wonder about the string wear running through the top-loader holes in the bridge plate. I assume the strings are running through teflon tubing.

......http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jwells393/New%20Album/B-16Modified2.jpg

Hmmm........... looking at the picture above the strings leave the Bigsby roller at the top. Perhaps one could use a modified B-16 with a vintage bridge plate with notches in the back lip and strings leaving the roller from the bottom. That would however make the Bigsby work opposite the way a tremolo normally works. B-16s are known for requiring neck shimming.

......http://www.bigsbyguitars.com/images/trem_b16_L.jpg

I've got one Tele with a B16, and I'd recommend against it - B16s require that the body specs be inside very close tolerances (and not even all original Fender bodies work with the B16; USACG bodies don't work with B16; Warmoth bodies do work with it!) - because the pickup cutout of the B16 has to sit exactly over the pickup route on the body, and unfortunately not all Tele bodies (again, not even Fender made ones) have exactly the same distance from the back edge of the body to the pickup route.
The B16 requires lots (and I mean LOTS of shimming - more than a TOM-bridge would - at least 5 to 6 mm); the strings leave the top edge of the bar where they are mounted very high above the surface of the guitar, so the bridge has to be even higher to provide a sufficient break angle (I have seen B16s recessed into routes on the surface of the body to work around this).
B16 changes the tone of the Tele a lot (almost towards a Gretsch-y sound); it changes the feel of the Tele a lot, too (because of the shimming, the strings sit very high above the surface of the body, kinda like on an archtop guitar); it also requires lots of tinkering and making small things fit that you'd never think about in advance (eg. you have to mess around with pickup scews and springs to make them go much farther out of the body because the strings are now so high).

The best (and I'm not adding a "IMHO" here - because this is by far and objectively THE BEST) method of using a Bigsby on a Tele is getting a B5 or B50 tailpiece, and using it with a regular 3-saddle ashtray bridge with notches filed into the back (which takes about 15 minutes with a handsaw and files, or 5 min. with a Dremel).
NO shimming required, string height above the body & action stay the same; practically no change in tone - your Tele will stay as twangy as it ever was, changing strings will make a bigger difference in sound than adding a Bigsby to an ashtray bridge Tele.
Really easy to do, too! Dismount ashtray bridge; file 6 notches into the back lip for the strings to go through; determine placement of the B5 tailpiece so that the strings will still go straight over the bridge saddles, and the pressure bar on the B5 is parallel to the back lip of the ashtray; drill 4 mounting holes for B5; string up & play!

Now, if you get the Bigsby-Tele kit with the Jazzmaster-type bridge, you WILL have to shim the neck, most likely the tone WILL change (due to the totally different bridge type), Jazzmaster bridges are notorious for the strings slipping of the saddles when being hit hard, and worst of all you'll have to drill big holes into the surface of the body for the cups that the bridge posts sit in (and placement of those holes has to be inside very close tolerances.

Do your self a favor, and save lots of money, blood, sweat & tears (as I said, I'm speaking from experience here), and go with a B5 or B50 and notched ashtray bridge!

I think RomanS has given some good advice based on first hand experience. I plan to do a B-5/vintage bridge build.

I did come across an interesting take on the B-16 however. James Trussart (Steelcaster Guitars) has modified the B-16 ......."utilizing a proprietary tension bar and a roller bridge". It looks like this tension bar lowers the strings before they reach the bridge. The saddles wouldn't have to be raised so high therefore neck shimming might not be required. Here are some pictures.

......http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/jwells393/New%20Album/TrussartB-16-2.jpg

You're right - with a pressure bar like that, the saddles/bridge wouldn't have to be raised so high (incidentially, on my own B16-Tele I use exactly the same kind of Wilkinson roller bridge Trussart uses...).

However, if you modify the B16 with a pressure bar, you migth just as well use the B5, which already has the pressure bar included (unless you want to use the B16 purely for looks).
In action, the main differences between the B16 and the B5 are that the vibrato lever action on the B16 is softer than on the B5, and the sound of the B16 seems to be less punchy/twangy, but more harmonically complex, fuller, richer (as I said, less Tele-ish, more Gretsch-y, archtop-like) - because of the freely vibrating parts of the string behind the bridge (you can clearly hear that when playing a B16-Tele unplugged).
Once you modify the B16 with a pressure bar like that, the action is probably going to be stiffer, like on a B5, and the harmonic vibrations of the strings behind the bridge will be damped by the pressure bar - so you might have used the B5 in the first place...

Thank you all for your replies, unfortunately I'm still very much undecided. I guess my main concerns are: finding a solution that does not require shimming the neck, having it be able to keep in tune, and not dampening or hindering the sound of the guitar. I know its going to change the tone, but I want it to change for the better, adding more sustain and obviously giving me the ability to use the vibrato.

I've been looking at a couple products that I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Fender-Tele-BIGSBY-CONVERSION-KIT-Chrome-B50_W0QQitemZ130226160537QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41407Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigsby-Tele-Conversion-Kit-w-B5-Tremolo-Chrome_W0QQitemZ170155104481QQihZ007QQcategoryZ414 07QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp 1638Q2em118Q2el1247

I've heard Doeringer mentioned on this forum a few times, does anyone have any experience with their kit?

Like I mentioned in my initial post, the idea of having to drill a few holes into the guitar isn't too concerning, it's just the shimming I'm not too keen on. I'm even open to Romans suggestion, in fact his sounds the most cost effective.

Actually perhaps you can answer this question for me Roman. http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/mytele1l.jpg Am I correct in observing that you kept the original bridge plate on your guitar and just filled the string slots onto the back of it? Or did the bridge and bridge plate come together? Is this what I should be using if I use your method? http://cgi.ebay.com/GOLD-Telecaster-Vintage-Ashtray-Design-Bridge-BT6_W0QQitemZ130226109852QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41407Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohost ing

or this http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilkinson-Tele-3-Barrel-Ashtray-Chrome-Bridge-NEW_W0QQitemZ330240626963QQihZ014QQcategoryZ41407Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again for all the input you guys, you're ultimately making my decision making a whole lot easier :)

T

Thank you all for your replies, unfortunately I'm still very much undecided. I guess my main concerns are: finding a solution that does not require shimming the neck, having it be able to keep in tune, and not dampening or hindering the sound of the guitar. I know its going to change the tone, but I want it to change for the better, adding more sustain and obviously giving me the ability to use the vibrato.

...

Actually perhaps you can answer this question for me Roman. http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/medium/mytele1l.jpg Am I correct in observing that you kept the original bridge plate on your guitar and just filled the string slots onto the back of it? Or did the bridge and bridge plate come together? Perhaps you could find a link online to the type of bridge you're using, or just tell me the brand or whatever so I can maybe find a good deal on ebay.



Well, this Tele of mine was built with a Bigsby from the ground up, so there was no "original" bridge plate - I simply got a Bigsby B50 tailpiece (the B50 is an Asian-made licensed version of the US-made B5, with very slightly different exterior design), and a Wilkinson vintage style bridge with intonation compensated saddles from Guitarfetish http://store.guitarfetish.com/wicotebrbrsa.html - filed some notches into the back lip of that Wilkinson bridge, mounted all the stuff, and I was ready to go.
As I said - absolutely NO shimming required; and since my Warmoth Tele body came with the string-thru holes of a regular Tele, I can also string it up without using the Bigsby - which I tried: there is practically NO difference in tone between using that Tele with or without the Bigsby.

Oh, and that 6-saddle bridge you linked to would NOT work - the intonation screws for saddles sit exactly where the strings would have to pass through; a 3-saddle bridge woudl work, since there the intonation screws sit inbetween the strings; if you are concerned about intonation, get some compensated saddles, like on the Wilkinson bridge linked above!

Ha you posted before I could even edit mine and add the ebay links. Alright well I think I'm going to give your method a try Roman, I guess the only thing I need to know now is where exactly I should mount the Bigsby itself. Looking at the picture of your guitar it seems like there's not a whole lot of space left between the bottom of the guitar and the bigsby, looks like a quarter of an inch. I know there's lots of different pdf's available on this site http://www.xs4all.nl/~msengers/htm/gallery.htm, any suggestions as to which one would be the best?

Some pics:

Here you can see how high the bridge has to sit above the surface of the body with a B16 to provide sufficient break angle of the strings - consequently, lots of shimming is required:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/RomanSonnleitner/rwtelebrkangle.jpg


Close-up pics of the B5/vintage-bridge set-up; the saddles are set about as high as on a Tele without Bigsby, so there's no shimming necessary; the pressure bar on the B5 provides for a big enough string-break angle.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/RomanSonnleitner/telebigs2.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/RomanSonnleitner/telebigs1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e323/RomanSonnleitner/bigs1.jpg

Ha you posted before I could even edit mine and add the ebay links. Alright well I think I'm going to give your method a try Roman, I guess the only thing I need to know now is where exactly I should mount the Bigsby itself. Looking at the picture of your guitar it seems like there's not a whole lot of space left between the bottom of the guitar and the bigsby, looks like a quarter of an inch. I know there's lots of different pdf's available on this site http://www.xs4all.nl/~msengers/htm/gallery.htm (http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Emsengers/htm/gallery.htm), any suggestions as to which one would be the best?

I guess if you mount the B5 as close to the bridge plate as possible, the slightly steeper break angle might give you slightly more punch and sustain, and if you mount it closer to the edge of the body, the vibrato arm action might be a bit softer - but that's pure guessing, and with the little room for variation there is, I guess the differences will be minimal.

PS: An off-topic aside: Since you're from Huntington Beach, do you by any chance know a band from there called The Fallen Stars?

Yeah as a matter of fact I do, do you know Bobbo? I know he left for Europe a few weeks ago and was gonna stay with some relatives. If you see him tell him Tyler from the UPS store says hi, and that I'm sorry I didn't make it to his cd release show and that I will DEFINITELY make the next one .

Alright well then it's settled, I will buy just the B-5 or B-50 tailpiece and the Wilkinson bridge you posted and make it my new DIY project. I'll go ahead and post some pics of my guitar and mark on there where I'm thinking about drilling the holes and maybe you can tell me if it looks good or not. Thanks again for all the help man, I really appreciate it. I'll post if I have any more questions but I think I should be good for now.

T

Bobbo and Tracy just stayed here in Vienna last weekend - I know them from the Alt.Country mega-thread over on The Gear Page, and since I knew they were coming through my hometown, I gave them a little guided tour when they were here... It's a small world, after all!
BTW, Bobbo did try my Bigsby-Tele, so you might ask him about his opinions, instead of just listening to me; we did a little bit of jamming, which made me realise I'm probably a better guitar (& amp - I think he really liked my DIY JTM45-clone) builder rather than guitar player (but then, Bobbo is really good!)

Good luck on your project! It's really not that hard to do! Just make sure the bridge and the Bigsby sit in the right location before drilling the mounting holes; maybe mount the neck first, and then string the guitar up with some fishing line or something, so you can move around the bridge and Bigsby a bit to see that the high and low E-Strings are about the same distance from the edges of the fretboard, before doing any drilling!

Roman- Have you noticed any increased saddle wear on the Bigsby-Wilkinson setup. I would think over time.... but I might be wrong.

I have been playing that particular Tele A LOT ever since I built it about 3 years ago, and, yes, slowly the strings are starting to wear notches into the saddles; I don't expect having to change them for another 3 or 4 years, though...
But, yes, with brass saddles you can expect having to change them once in a while.

Sotob, I'm sorry I didn't answer sooner. My daughter just got married and I've been busy helping them moving stuff out and in.
I don't remember off hand where I got it, I know it was online and it was a Bigsby B5 tele kit with all the parts including bridge and bridge plate, etc.

Vinman - Congrats!

I saw the B5 Tele kit box the other day and it had the mustang bridge in it now.

Thanks, Sotob.
I saw this place and this is the lowest price so far and may still have the original bridge. two choices, bigsby logo or F logo.

http://www.guitarden.com/parts/others.html

Well most of the leg work is now complete. I have the bridge plate and the bigsby mounted, just now working on setting the intonation. The whole process wasn't terribly difficult. The high and low E strings rest a little bit on the string slots I made in the bridge plate but it doesn't seem to be affecting the tone at all. So far I'm very pleased with the results and can't wait to get the intonation properly set and the new strings broken in so I can really see how well this baby will stay in tune. Thanks again to Roman for all the help, much obliged.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn311/Dillinger1984/Picture003.jpg?t=1213417737

Cool, hope it works & stays in tune as well as mine!