Anyone else hate allen head screws?

Does anyone else hate allen-head screws for saddle height adjustment? The tiny heads are easily stripped and you need a special little wrench to adjust them. It really bugs me that you need another tool to work on the guitar.

The hardware stores only have allen head set screws, so I figured I'd go order a bunch of slot head to replace the allen head screws, but it turns out that McMaster Carr only has nylon screws with slotted heads.

Yep, those buggers are a real pain!

They are a pain but remember that there are Metric and Imperial sizes as well .Use the wrong one at your peril ,US made guitars often use imperial while imports use Metric .use a good quality set of keys.When I adjusted my Epi Dot's truss rod I used a quality set of hex bits in a holder like you get in power tool driver set .I then use a spanner to turn it ..It worked much better than an allen key which seemed sloppy.Some tools are so cheap and nasty , now even well known makes are one job wonders.

I use whitworth on mine...just for kicks

I don't strip the hex heads. Maybe there's something in your technique why you're stripping them?

If you are adjusting under full string pressure try slacking the string a couple tuner key turns first. This also keeps your bridge plate from getting its finish scraped off as fast under the screw tips.

I don't hate the socket heads but I wish I could find them instead with slotted heads. If someone could make them in the various thread sizes and lengths folks would want for various Teles they would sell to folks like us. I don't know if it would be a profitable venture though.

Those screws are so small, all it takes is one false move.

The allen head is much stronger than a slot head would be. But it's so small, it won't work right with an undersize wrench. It will feel like it's stripped.

If you need to clean one out, first give it a squirt of WD40 and let it soak. While that's happening, take about 1 1/2" of .013 guitar string and chuck it into your Dremel tool. Wear goggles and use a vise! You do not want fingers near this. Finish with a squirt of compressed air.

I've been working on stuff since I was a kid. In those 40-odd years, I've never had a problem with any Allen head fastener. On the other hand, I can't count the times I've stripped out a slot-head or Philips-head fastener, or stabbed myself with a screwdriver when it slipped out of the slot.

I don't even like phillips head...I like the fact that on my 52RI I can take the entire guitar apart with 1 screwdriver theoretically (using the same size that fits the tone control screws and neck bolts is probably not a good idea but it could be done) I'm irked that the truss rod is phillips.

Well, it helps to have the exact right size, and to never "over torque" them, not that you're using a torque wrench, but get my drift.

I'm actually a huge fan of allen/hex keys and screws and think they're an excellent alternative to all the old slot screws where you can easily slip out of the slot with the screwdriver and end up scratching or gouging your guitar.

Philips are much better than slots, but why doesn't any manufacturer use Robertsons? That square box head design is simple but brilliant.

BRGRDS

Philips are much better than slots, but why doesn't any manufacturer use Robertsons? That square box head design is simple but brilliant.

BRGRDS


I think it's because here in America we mostly think of Canada and all things Canadian (except Canadian bacon) as either "England-light" or "France-light" and our anti-colonial instincts kick in ;-)

Larger size allen screws are fine in many cases, maybe even better than other choices in many cases, but those little itty bitty ones are only good when they're new. When they start to get corroded or seized they are way too easy to strip, even with the right sized wrench.

on one of my cheap guitars (where all the heads were stripped) from ebay I used a small file to file a notch right the way along the head of the bolt so now I can use a small slotted screwdriver on my stripped heads.

Well, it helps to have the exact right size, and to never "over torque" them, not that you're using a torque wrench, but get my drift.

I'm actually a huge fan of allen/hex keys and screws and think they're an excellent alternative to all the old slot screws where you can easily slip out of the slot with the screwdriver and end up scratching or gouging your guitar.

Philips are much better than slots, but why doesn't any manufacturer use Robertsons? That square box head design is simple but brilliant.

BRGRDS

I'm a carpenter and all the guys on my crew are very into using Robertsons for homebuilding applications, on everything from small finish projects to framing. They make some big burly Robertson deck screws that are just a small step down from SDS screws for strength. Also some cool self tapping finish screws that will go thru dry, knotty, 1by pine without having to drill every hole. The only thing we really use Phillips for anymore is drywall screws.
I've often wondered why Robertsons don't get used in guitar applications.

the hardest thing for me is finding the right size *when i need it* -- i know, i know, one of these days i've got to get organized.

I've often wondered why Robertsons don't get used in guitar applications.

I agree, (I'm Canadian so I have to, it's the law here) that Robertson heads are the best, hands down, in terms of functionality. The reason I don't want them on my guitar is because they are the least appealing aesthetically. To me it would look like someone used screws from an outdoor deck on a guitar. Yuck!

Oh, and I've never stripped an allen head screw.

I'm not sure what Robertsons are, but I do hate allen screws. One thing I do like, something thats usually in car audio pieces are the star screws. A quality set makes it very easy to remove and put back on with a lesser chance of stripping the damn thing. I've broken so many philips heads (I spent a whole summer installing windows 100+) I've decided its just how much you want to spend.

My favorite is when your using a cheap philips screwdriver and the handle spins off the the rod!

Hmmm...
Robertson = square drive....

..thank you Google...

..makes sense that (with the angle of the 'sides' of the drive hole so much sharper) it would take more torque before stripping out, but guys, HOW MUCH torque are you applying to screws of this size???? Phew!!!!

..in my (old days of) auto restoration past, I would put the smallest wipe of "copper coat" (or some similar brand) anti-seize goop on screws and bolts before assembling, because I figured I would mostly be the clutz who would end up having to take the whole thing apart again one day..

Worked for me in over twenty years of that.....

Phillips head screws where originally developed for Cadillac, as a means of controlling the max torque that could be applied to a screw, to avoid damaging the parts being screwed together. The head and bit are actually designed to slip if too much torque is applied. Somehow, they became commonplace in the USA, for applications that make no sense for this design. Robertson head screws are popular in Canada because the Phillips design was not licensed in Canada. Robertson is a little different from "square drive", it has a taper to square hole.

Anyway, socket head (A.K.A. Allen head) set screws are a good design, but they sure don't have the vintage vibe like the old slot-head grub screws!

I have 3 multi-sizings that flip out for both Metric & Standard allens, and 1 for Torx. Sizing is key to not strip the heads.

It pays to get a couple of top-quality sets of hex keys in both metric and inch sizes. The ones I have are the Bondhus "Gorilla-Proof" brand, guaranteed for ever and featuring a ball end on the long part so that they can be used at a slight angle for simple turning. Don't know if they're available in the USA but if not I expect there's something similar.

For adjusting saddle screws I select the correct key and use the long part in the screw, turning the short section with the fingertips. This helps prevent stripping through applying too much torque to a sticky thread.

Phillips-head screws are a bit of a pain because of being designed to cam out; the GKN "Pozidriv" type is much better and very popular in the UK, though they're not as pretty. "Torx" star-socket fasteners are mostly but not always found in automotive applications, but they've yet to achieve general popularity like hex ("Allen") heads over here.

Maybe this might help.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1866450&PMT4NO=42418932 as far as getting a good set of wrenches. The right tool for the right job!

mscdirect.com Just look up what ever you need in the search and you got it! They even sell set screws (most likely in bags of 25 iirc) I am not sure what the sizes you are looking for but I'll be more than glad to help if I can. I am a machinist/toolmaker so its nothing new to me. Been dealing with the small screws a long time!

Just some info as far as screw sizes go for those who dont know...

The first number is the diameter of the screw (or bolt) the 2nd number is the thread pitch.

Example: 1/4 - 20 (1/4 diameter 20 threads per inch)
M3 x 0.50 (3 millimeter x 0.50 threads per mm)

Hope this helps.

I have to live with them on my Strats, but IMO, a Tele shoud never have those blasted hex screws! I only slotted screws in my Tele saddles.

I agree with PJ, I only want to see sloted screws on my teles also! I have seen some really ancient tele's nd esquire's where all the screws, right down to pickguard screws were slot types.

Can anyone else say the same?

personally I love "socket head cap screws", they have been a fact of life in the manufacturing machinery business for a couple of decades. Conversely, slotted screws were a great invention a couple of centuries ago, but they are handy on electrical connectors..........IMHO.

I feel your pain. I lost the right allen wrench and so now I use the little flathead screw that is used for glasses. Works like a charm.

i dont mind allen stuff... i do seem to strip phillips heads (tops) fairly easily. not sure why. maybe some of them are made of softer metals. never had much of a problem with regular slots.

rand z tropicalsoul.net

Whenever I have stripped, slipped or broken a fastener, I am doing something wrong.
We all do it. Rushing, wrong tool, worn tool, not using lubricating fluid, etc.
But sometimes there seems to be nothing you can do but try and fail.

Quality tools do make a big differance. I remember in college we took digital micrometers and measured fasteners then the appropriate sockets.

You wouldnt believe the variance between brand names.
Aircraft grade fasteners were dead on every time. some cheap sockets varied more than .005"!!!! (Snap On was allways closest by the way)

So would allen wrenches I assume. I do understand what you mean although I have broken/damaged/stabbed myself with slotted screws.

Dont get me started on most of the cheap import fasteners though, UUUGGGGHHHH:mad:

Maybe this might help.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1866450&PMT4NO=42418932 as far as getting a good set of wrenches. The right tool for the right job!

mscdirect.com Just look up what ever you need in the search and you got it! They even sell set screws (most likely in bags of 25 iirc) I am not sure what the sizes you are looking for but I'll be more than glad to help if I can. I am a machinist/toolmaker so its nothing new to me. Been dealing with the small screws a long time!

Just some info as far as screw sizes go for those who dont know...

The first number is the diameter of the screw (or bolt) the 2nd number is the thread pitch.

Example: 1/4 - 20 (1/4 diameter 20 threads per inch)
M3 x 0.50 (3 millimeter x 0.50 threads per mm)

Hope this helps.

The screws for saddles are # 6-32, and I believe they're 3/8" long. Should have a flat tip and not the hollow pointed tip.

I am right on board with using good quality stuff, using the right tool for the right job, etc., but my frustration isn't with my work, it's with stuff I get from elsewhere.

Get a second hand Tele with some corrosion on those little screws (sourced from who knows where, but they're certainly not aircraft grade parts), after having been worked on by some mystery person with mysterious tools (but probably that little allen wrench that fender gives you, also probably not the best), and you'll soon find that it's easy to strip that little screw head. Or worse, it might have already been stripped.

It's harder to completely screw up a slot head screw in an application like this.

Yeah, I hate them too. But not as much as slot heads, phillips heads, and some other heads. Best from a strip out standpoint are the Torx heads, but I seem to be the only person who likes them. I don't strip out the heads on allens, but I do strip the corners off of the smaller wrenches.

The first number is the diameter of the screw (or bolt) the 2nd number is the thread pitch.

Example: 1/4 - 20 (1/4 diameter 20 threads per inch)
M3 x 0.50 (3 millimeter x 0.50 threads per mm)

BoltDepot (http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Measuring/TPIandPitch.aspx) and McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) use these terms for thread measurement: US (inch) threads are measured by the thread count (TPI, threads per inch), and metric threads are measured by the thread pitch (distance in millimeters between each thread).

I don't mind allens one bit. I bought the correct-sized allen wrench at a hardware store for under a buck and keep it in my gear bag. It is a more solid interface than any slotted or philips.