Recommend A Good, Inexpensive 12 String

Got a hankering for the big sound of an acoustic 12 string.
never owned one before. how about some suggestions .... as in best bang for the buck on a very limited budget.

I got an old Yamaha FG420/12 second hand, for about $100. Works fine, nice full bassy sound. There are a few Yamaha 12 strings on ebay from $90-$200.

If you can get one get a Vintage V400-12

Cheap can be dangerous with an acoustic 12-string! Lotta structural tension from those strings. As far as new, I'd feel fairly safe with a Seagull S-12 (under $600 at MF) like this one:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/7/7/9/554779.jpg

One of the nicest 12-string acoustics that I've ever played at any price was a Larrivee a few years ago. It was around $1200, if I recall correctly. Sweet! Guilds rock, too.

My brother has an old Italian-made EKO copy of a Gibson that's surprisingly playable AND toneful. One quirk: the string spacing is normal at the nut, but at the bridge all of the strings are equally distant from each other. As in not doubled like up at the nut. Still, it plays great. Go figure! (He's been threatening to sell it, let me know if you want me to get a price from him).

Cheers, Tim

Thanks for the responses fellas!

what do you think of this Agile?:

http://www.rondomusic.com/hrb20012.html

twelve strings have a lot of tension so having a solid top is very important and i don't know if that agile 12 string has a solid top. I have an alvarez AD60-12 which has a solid top. I got it and a case for $250 on ebay. I added a fishman pickup to it as well and it sounds really good. too bad i don't play it anymore

+1 on the Seagull but they have a cheaper version that I believe just came out in the $400 range. It has a solid cedar top and is so smooth to play. I felt like I was playing a six string it was that smooth.

Cheap can be dangerous with an acoustic 12-string! Lotta structural tension from those strings. As far as new, I'd feel fairly safe with a Seagull S-12 (under $600 at MF) like this one:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/7/7/9/554779.jpg

One of the nicest 12-string acoustics that I've ever played at any price was a Larrivee a few years ago. It was around $1200, if I recall correctly. Sweet! Guilds rock, too.

My brother has an old Italian-made EKO copy of a Gibson that's surprisingly playable AND toneful. One quirk: the string spacing is normal at the nut, but at the bridge all of the strings are equally distant from each other. As in not doubled like up at the nut. Still, it plays great. Go figure! (He's been threatening to sell it, let me know if you want me to get a price from him).

Cheers, Tim

Thanks for the responses fellas!

what do you think of this Agile?:

http://www.rondomusic.com/hrb20012.html

Agile's are excellent guitars but I don't have this one (I have an LP copy. However, based on my minimal experience the round-backs sound fantastic plugged in but unplugged they lack the fullness of a regular 12 string.

Great, go for it!
A 12-string guitar is the most beautiful sounding instrument (IMHO) in the world.


This is just my opinion based on some knowledge but - the "acoustic 12-string tension" thing is pretty much an old wive's tale.

This is a common excuse for why some people think they have to de-tune acoustic 12s (and use a capo).

It may have been true 70 years ago but with modern construction techniques is not nearly as relevant anymore.

As far as recommendation goes, if one can buy a Martin, "buy a Martin:"

http://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=z&g=n&m=D12X1


http://www.victorlitz.com/images/d12x1.jpg


As I've posted elsewhere, GE Smith played my D12X1 and it was the sweetest thing I ever heard in my life.

Try a Simon Patrick if you can, same company as Seagull. I got mine 15 years ago and it's still going strong, althought the cedar top is starting to "relic" naturally from heavy strumming. Actually it was my heavy-metal buddy who loved doing speed versions of Beatles songs on it...

If you can spend $500, the Martin D12X1 is fantastic. The startabond necks are bulletbroof. I can put mine in a frozen car trunk and take it out and the set up and tuning are perfect. I've had my D12X1 for a couple years now; it was an upgrade from an Epi.

At $330, the Yamaha FG720 - 12 String is a great solid top guitar. They are available everywhere and I prefer the tone and feel over a Seagull (and Seagulls are generally best bargain bets)

http://elderly.com/images/new_instruments/26N/FG720S12_front_sm_.jpghttp://elderly.com/images/new_instruments/26N/FG720S12_body-front_sm_.jpghttp://elderly.com/images/new_instruments/26N/FG720S12_back_sm_.jpg

Yamaha 12 String Linky (http://elderly.com/images/new_instruments/26N/FG720S12_back_sm_.jpg)

John

I got a righteous 70's Takamine 12 for 250.00... it is a great instrument worthy of 12-1500.00 instruments....

Yup...old Getbent beat me to it..if you can find one of those 70 Takumine Martin copies, they are the best...mine was $369...our 1978 tax return and its a sweetheart...D28-12 copy

If you can spend $500, the Martin D12X1 is fantastic. The startabond necks are bulletbroof. I can put mine in a frozen car trunk and take it out and the set up and tuning are perfect.
Um, maybe you can do that, but it's certainly not recommended.

+1 for buying a used 12 stringy.

A lot of people love the sound, but after they buy one they get a bit disenchanted with them. Maybe they only use them for one or two songs, it becomes a pain to re-string, or maybe it's just too hard to tune. Anyway for a multitude of reasons people turn them loose. Give a go at finding a used one. JMO

Got one in mint shape for $500, with a hard case on ebay. Something I always wanted to have without spending a lot on

I got a righteous 70's Takamine 12 for 250.00... it is a great instrument worthy of 12-1500.00 instruments....

Yup...old Getbent beat me to it..if you can find one of those 70 Takumine Martin copies, they are the best...mine was $369...our 1978 tax return and its a sweetheart...D28-12 copy

Yet another vote for a used Takamine. I got mine at GC for $179!!!! It's my Number One guitar at the moment (sorry Teles). I can't get over the lush sound. I put a Fishman Neo-D single-coil soundhole pickup in it and it sounds great amplified (into the PA from my L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI).

I've also recently seen (at GC) a 1970s Epiphone 12-string Bard for under $200. Good deals are out there. Keep looking and playing.

There are a couple of under-$200 12-strings (Fender, Mitchell, Epiphone). I find them to be of the quality of $99 6-string guitars. If you think a high action and poor setup are rough on a 6, just wait until you try it on a 12. That's why I recommend going up the price ladder a bit or watching for a great deal on a used 12.

Here's a stock pic of my Tak. Mine doesn't have the lawsuit headstock:

http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/544/medium/Takamine_F389.jpg

+1 for buying a used 12 stringy.

A lot of people love the sound, but after they buy one they get a bit disenchanted with them. Maybe they only use them for one or two songs,


Yeah, I've heard this before too.
Which, of course, doesn't make any sense.
If people "love the sound" why only use them for only one or two songs.

A lot of people look upon 12-strings as a one-trick-pony.
I think 12-strings (acoustic or electric) are a lot more versatile than people give them credit for.

There's another thread here about popular songs with 12's in them.
That's a lot of songs.

12's work with blues, folk, jazz, bluegrass, anything.

Thanks for the recommendations/suggestions/advice guys! i'm gonna go looking in the local shops for used ones first, and then move on from there if they don't have one that fits the bill. i'm a little apprehensive about the ebay route, 'cause i like to play a guitar before i buy.

in the meantime, check out what Jimi could do on a 12:

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Yup.

There's a history behind that guitar, by the way.


And ... one of my favorite SRV clips:

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[COLOR="Navy"]Yup.

There's a history behind that guitar, by the way.




please 'splain

Norman is another of the Godin/Seagull family. Very well made for low $.

please 'splain

Sorry.

The 12-string acoustic guitar played by Hendrix in the clip was a very cheap model built in 1960 by a guy named Tony Zemaitis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Zemaitis


It has changed hands (of course) and somehow is now for sale:

http://www.symboliccollection.com/home.asp?target=item&tblbg=products_02&categorycode=guitars&itemcode=ZEMAITIS&sessionid=

Leo Kottke is the best 12 string player I know of.......
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He wrote In My Shoes on a 12 but he plays it on a 6 here. He's the best...
xwTYZ1hLhXc

+1 on the Coastline Seagull. Just picked one up for $459/delivered w/HSC. Seagulls are total killer acoustics that are every bit as good as what's-their-name-big-buck-acoustics. YMWNV. :mrgreen:

Leo Kottke is the best 12 string player I know of.......



Am also a big Kottke fan.


Did you ever hear of Chris Proctor?

On this "instructional" video:

http://www.amazon.com/Techniques-Contemporary-12-String-Guitar-DVD/dp/B00009M7NP/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1209923375&sr=1-2

He not only plays fingerstyle on a 12, but picks individual strings from the pairs.
Amazing stuff.

Hi. I am a 12-string collector, of sorts. I have a Gibson B4512N, an Epiphone 12, a Carvin AE185-12, a Carvin Cobalt 980 T12, and a Fender acoustic 12. I have played Taylor, Guild, and Martin acoustics. To be honest, the last 12-string I bought was the Carvin Cobalt 980T12 about 3 yrs. ago. After playing this guitar in Carvin's San Diego store, I knew my search was over. For $769 (they'll throw in the case for free if you beg nicely) this is an amazing instrument -- the finest I've ever played. And, no, it's not perfect.

The Carvin Cobalt 980T12 is a 'jumbo' guitar -- and I mean it is BIG, perhaps too big for some. The action is typical Carvin, i.e. supremely low with no buzzes or rattles. The neck is medium width -- just enough to keep the strings from rattling against each other but not so much as to make chording difficult. The neck is quite thin for an acoustic, especially a 12-string.

The sound of this guitar is (for me) amazing. It is 'janglie' like vintage Byrds (McGuinn) on his Rickenbacker, but maintains a separation of notes like an upscale Martin acoustic. It is crisp with excellent projection and volume (too loud for some, perhaps). Some have criticized it for lacking in bass, but I think this is a very minor issue. (The Martin is superior in this regard -- and far, far more expensive.) The Carvin has a certain 'chime' that I haven't heard on any other 12-string; it always elicits comments from listeners. It is an excellent finger-picker (for a 12-string) and an unbelievable strummer, even when hammered hard. Are there better 12's out there? Possibly, but I haven't heard them.

The fit-and-finish is classic Carvin, i.e. impeccable. No glue slop, no poor-fitting joints, a perfect finish. I've owned a lot of Carvin gear over the years (I've been playing for over 40 years), and I have never had a problem with the gear or the staff.

Take a good look at the features offered in this made-in-Asia guitar and compare it to the competition at 2x or even 3x the price. My bet is that you'll be impressed.

The biggest downside to dealing with Carvin is that they deal only 'factory direct.' This means you are stuck with a web purchase unless you live within striking distance of one of their CA stores. They do have a 10-day return policy but it can be a hassle to take advantage of it.

One of the things I've noticed over the years is that Carvin gets less respect that it might deserve. When I've pursued this issue with nay-sayers I'm lead to believe that, for instance, a guy with a $2000 Taylor acoustic AUTOMATICALLY assumes his guitar is far better than an $800 Carvin. On the one hand it might actually be better. On the other hand, it's embarrassing to discover a much cheaper instrument can compete with your 'brand name,' yes? At any rate, it's an interesting dynamic.

Well, that's my two cents worth. Hope this is useful to you.

No one's mentioned a Guild yet???

I'd try to find a used Westerly, Guild 12 string jumbo. IMHO, they can't be beat, MIA, and they usually don't cost an arm and a leg.

I have an Ashton 12 string, it's excellent and only cost £99. It has a built in tuner which is handy. It's a seriously good guitar, and a steal at that price. I'd reccomend it.

I like this little lady

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/ANGERMANAGER/IMAG0124.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t99/ANGERMANAGER/IMAG0130.jpg

Just about one of the best made guitars i've ever seen , and can still be picked up cheaply , though prices are rising very quickly .

Set up properly , they play great , and if they had Martin on the headstock , would probably cost a few grand .

You never really said what your budget is. If you are in the $200 range, I'd go with the Austin AU518. It is all laminate but construction is good and tuning is stable.

http://www.austingtr.com/products.php?CatID=5&PageID=64

I'd try to find a used Westerly, Guild 12 string jumbo. IMHO, they can't be beat, MIA, and they usually don't cost an arm and a leg.

Unless you can find a Guild in good condition - that's the trick though. A Guild 12-string was the top of the 12-string pile back in the day.

The sound of this guitar is (for me) amazing. It is 'janglie' like vintage Byrds (McGuinn) on his Rickenbacker, but maintains a separation of notes like an upscale Martin acoustic. It is crisp with excellent projection and volume (too loud for some, perhaps). Some have criticized it for lacking in bass, but I think this is a very minor issue. (The Martin is superior in this regard -- and far, far more expensive.) The Carvin has a certain 'chime' that I haven't heard on any other 12-string; it always elicits comments from listeners.

The Carvin sounds great. The sound you describe is similar to my Takamine (above). When I bought it, I was able to play a few other new 12-strings that cost about the same. The others were bassy and boomy, a sound I might have prized in a 6-string. The Tak, on the other hand, was a bit quieter, but very well-balanced between all the strings. That's why I took it home. I sounded (and played) better than the boomy 12s.

The tone and balance might be because the Tak is all mahogany: front, back and sides. The others I played had spruce tops.

Try a Simon Patrick if you can, same company as Seagull. I got mine 15 years ago and it's still going strong, althought the cedar top is starting to "relic" naturally from heavy strumming. Actually it was my heavy-metal buddy who loved doing speed versions of Beatles songs on it...

...and that is what i ended up getting. had not heard of S&P before your post. as luck would have it, found a used one in a second hand shop over the weekend. yes, the cedar top was quite a bit relic'd but it sounds GLORIOUS! like a choir of angels. even more so after a new set of strings (now that's a chore!)
thanks again to everyone who gave me recommendations. buying used was the way to go. the Simon & Patrick was a good fit for me.

here's a photo:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/hekawi/100_3769.jpg

If you can spend $500, the Martin D12X1 is fantastic. The startabond necks are bulletbroof. I can put mine in a frozen car trunk and take it out and the set up and tuning are perfect. I've had my D12X1 for a couple years now; it was an upgrade from an Epi.

At $330, the Yamaha FG720 - 12 String is a great solid top guitar. They are available everywhere and I prefer the tone and feel over a Seagull (and Seagulls are generally best bargain bets)

John

x2 on the Yamaha fg720s-12... I had a bit more budget than what this one cost me & I still chose it over more expensive models. All it needs is a good PU and maybe some finer tuners. Sounds great, loud and crisp, fast neck. Binding is impeccable as is fretwork and it looks good too.
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/yamaha_fg720s-12_1_.jpg
http://www.tdpri.com/telephoto/data/500/yamaha_fg720s-12.jpg

...as luck would have it, found a used one in a second hand shop over the weekend. yes, the cedar top was quite a bit relic'd but it sounds GLORIOUS! like a choir of angels. even more so after a new set of strings


Yup, that's exactly what a 12-string is supposed to sound like.

But please do me a favor, don't lean the 12 against the garage door.

Ya never know . . .

A friend of mine got an Epiphone for around $250. The first one went back with issues, but the replacement is amazing.

I read recently of someone converting a 12 string to 6 string...how exactly does one do this, and what would be the reason?

I read recently of someone converting a 12 string to 6 string...how exactly does one do this, and what would be the reason?



There is NO reason at all on this green Earth (IMHO) to ever do this.

Twelve-string guitars are a gift from the music gods.

But this idea does come up often on Rickenbacker forums by people who want to know how to convert their electric Ric-12 to a six-string guitar.

If anyone has a 12-string guitar that they don't want (acoustic or electric) I'll take it off their hands at no charge. :wink:

I read recently of someone converting a 12 string to 6 string...how exactly does one do this, and what would be the reason?

Bad idea. 12 strings are more heavily braced than 6 strings, and so you'd wind up with a rather constrained sounding 6 string. Not recommended.