Detailed DIY Tweed Amp Instuctions w/o a Kit?

Hi everyone!

This my first posting on this forum.

Is there anywhere that I can get and/or buy detailed instructions to build a 5F4 or even a 5E3 (40watt) tube amp?

I don't want to buy a kit. I just want the instuctions, with a parts list, and a detailed guide for amateurs.

It's not like I've never held a soldering gun, but I cannot really read schematics, and blind trial and error would be too frustrating for such a big job.

The instuctions I need would have to be a sort of "hold your hand along the way" sort of thing.

I will also have to use a 230 volt power transformer, because I live in Europe. And I don't really know enough about electronics to be aware if that will require a change in components or wiring. :confused:

I want to get all the parts by myself, and just have a guide to tell me what to connect where, and in what order.

Buying an entire kit, will not be an option for me.

I'm rather partial to 6L6s, so instuctions for a 5F4 would be preferred.

Is there perhaps a VERY good Kits company that will just sell me their kit instuctions and parts list for that kit?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!

-Onkel Johann

If you contact STF electronics they might sell you an instruction manual for assembly of the 5E3, or Champ. They are friendly and have rather detailed and easy to follow instructions with the kits they sell. You may also find that the price of the kits are competitave with gathering your own stuff, and for a first build, something to consider. Good luck
http://www.stf-electronics.com/

Doug Hoffman's website www.el34world.com (http://www.el34world.com) has info on building amps, an amp forum and you can buy virtually everything you need, including multivolt 220-240 volt transformer for the 5E3 and many classic amps. There's also a very good builder's forum with good people to assist. The 5F4 uses a different layout and transformer, and very few people list them.

If you 'can't read a schematic' you are really going to be up against it - you need to be able to determine you have correct voltages before you plug tubes into a circuit, or you can wave goodbye to some expensive bits.

I would recommend reading some (most) of the info on the site, including the warnings - you can toast yourself very easily, especially when you've made an elementary error and you get frustrated and rush when you're tired and it's 3AM!

You can find the layout and schematic on the Fender Field Amp Guide - look up the index for 'Narrow Panel Deluxe'.

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/

I don't want to buy a kit. I just want the instuctions, with a parts list, and a detailed guide for amateurs.

It's not like I've never held a soldering gun, but I cannot really read schematics, and blind trial and error would be too frustrating for such a big job.

I don't think such a guide exists.

For your own safety, you need to learn how to read a schematic before you even think about building an amp. Wiring it all up is the easy bit. Keeping the sparks and smoke down to a minimum and making it sound good is the hard bit.

Hi everyone!

This my first posting on this forum.

Is there anywhere that I can get and/or buy detailed instructions to build a 5F4 or even a 5E3 (40watt) tube amp?

I don't want to buy a kit. I just want the instuctions, with a parts list, and a detailed guide for amateurs.

It's not like I've never held a soldering gun, but I cannot really read schematics, and blind trial and error would be too frustrating for such a big job.

The instuctions I need would have to be a sort of "hold your hand along the way" sort of thing.

I will also have to use a 230 volt power transformer, because I live in Europe. And I don't really know enough about electronics to be aware if that will require a change in components or wiring. :confused:

I want to get all the parts by myself, and just have a guide to tell me what to connect where, and in what order.

Buying an entire kit, will not be an option for me.

I'm rather partial to 6L6s, so instuctions for a 5F4 would be preferred.

Is there perhaps a VERY good Kits company that will just sell me their kit instuctions and parts list for that kit?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice!

-Onkel Johann

Hi and welcome to the board.

My family and I were in Vienna last month and we had a fabulous time, so much so we're coming back in the summer.

Anyway, on to business.

Have a look at the UK Torres Amp (http://www.torresamps.com/) site.

On this page they have Instruction Books (http://www.torresamps.com/instruction_books.htm) for various types of clone. You may find what you're looking for here.

If not, give them a call and have a chat to them. They are very approachable.

Hope this helps.

:grin: Peter

You've got mail!

Well, I can't help you to find a 5f4 instruction set. You can look at the usual sources, www.ax84.com has lots of good info for beginners.

There is a good German-language forum, http://www.tube-town.de/ttforum/index.php, which you might find useful. It is associated with an internet shop which has most of what you need.

steven

Thanks for the links and suggestions so far!
You are all very helpful! :smile:

If I order a kit from the USA, the coustoms tax in this country would also make it unaffordable. :sad:

So, that is also why it is better for me to just get some really good intructions that also list the parts I that I will need.

Again, many thanks for all your helpful suggestions, thus far!

Regards,
Onkel Johann

-) Customs duties & taxes also apply to gifts over a certain value, and amp kits would most definitely be over it!

-) Since I live in the same city you do, let me assure you: our local customs official are VERY efficient, VERY knowledgeable, and VERY internet savvy when it comes to finding out the REAL value of packages sent here; they've got long lists of items and their new and used values, if they can't find it there, they'll ask you to provide some sales receipt, PayPal transfer confirmation, Ebay auction proof, etc., and if you don't have that, they WILL estimate the value of the item - and NOT in your favor, either...
Oh, and I'm not makinf this up - I'm speaking from numerous experiences when buying from the US and other countries outside the EU.

-) Customs taxes, and esp. the VAT applied on the value of imported items, doesn't have anything to do with the EU - the only thing the EU regulates is the percentage of xustoms duties for certain groups of items, the VAT is determined by the individual countries, and both VAT and duties money go the the individual countries, not the EU. Oh, and it is the VAT (20% here) that makes up the biggest part of the upcharge on the original price, the acual customs duty is only 2-5% - and you have to pay the same 20% of VAT on any locally bought item, too, you just don't notice it as much because here (unlike many stores in the US) all the prices are already shown with the VAT figured in...
Please don't fall for the negative campaigning of our largest national(istic) mega-stupid newsrag - not everything that's bad comes from the EU, and not everything that comes from the EU is bad!

-) Oh, and BTW, wouldn't want to lose a new member so quickly again, so you'd better read the forum rules: political discussions are forbidden on this forum!

Sorry.
You're right.
Wos waas i?
Politics and music haven't mixed since Bertolt Brecht and Woody Guthrie.
Zumindest hab' ich nicht über Gentechnik gesprochen. :smile:
Die Regierung waas eh wos für uns g'scheid ist. :neutral:
And I don't listen to the propaganda.
No media should be taken at face value. Even Der Standand has been printing alot of Schrott these days. :roll:

But I'm getting off topic again...

If you have any answers to my original post they are most welcome!
I've decided to go with a slightly easier amp design, namely the 5d4.

And, as stated in my other thread, if you can clue me in on the changes in components that a 230 volt power tranformer would create, I would be extremely grateful.
Here are the schematics:
http://www.turretboards.com/layouts_schematics/fender/schematics/fender_super_5d4.gif

Well, that's all for now.
Thanks for your comments, advice and general kindness!

Freundschaft! and
Regards,

Onkel Johann

-) Customs duties & taxes also apply to gifts over a certain value, and amp kits would most definitely be over it!

-) Since I live in the same city you do, let me assure you: our local customs official are VERY efficient, VERY knowledgeable, and VERY internet savvy when it comes to finding out the REAL value of packages sent here; they've got long lists of items and their new and used values, if they can't find it there, they'll ask you to provide some sales receipt, PayPal transfer confirmation, Ebay auction proof, etc., and if you don't have that, they WILL estimate the value of the item - and NOT in your favor, either...
Oh, and I'm not makinf this up - I'm speaking from numerous experiences when buying from the US and other countries outside the EU.

-) Customs taxes, and esp. the VAT applied on the value of imported items, doesn't have anything to do with the EU - the only thing the EU regulates is the percentage of xustoms duties for certain groups of items, the VAT is determined by the individual countries, and both VAT and duties money go the the individual countries, not the EU. Oh, and it is the VAT (20% here) that makes up the biggest part of the upcharge on the original price, the acual customs duty is only 2-5% - and you have to pay the same 20% of VAT on any locally bought item, too, you just don't notice it as much because here (unlike many stores in the US) all the prices are already shown with the VAT figured in...
Please don't fall for the negative campaigning of our largest national(istic) mega-stupid newsrag - not everything that's bad comes from the EU, and not everything that comes from the EU is bad!

-) Oh, and BTW, wouldn't want to lose a new member so quickly again, so you'd better read the forum rules: political discussions are forbidden on this forum!

Politics and music haven't mixed since Bertolt Brecht and Woody Guthrie.

And, as stated in my other thread, if you can clue me in on the changes in components that a 230 volt power tranformer would create, I would be extremely grateful.

Onkel Johann

Hi again!
The change to a 230 V PT shouldn’t necessitate any changes other than the actual transformer itself as far as I can see. Just check to see that the mains switch can handle the 230 VAC.

I sent you an e-mail to the address stated in you TDPRI member profile, have you received it yet? I have some info that you might find useful.

Without getting into any political discussions over VAT, Customs, EU et.c., I'd like to quote Adam Clayton of U2, who said in the Rattle & Hum movie, as the soundtrack played Star Spangled Banner Jimi Hendrix style, that “there are some people who’d say that you shouldn’t mix sports and politics or music and politics or whatever. Well…”. Here he pauses for a second, before concluding “I think that’s kinda *********.”
Now there are the TDPRI rules that say that political discussions should be held elsewhere. But still I can't help but agree with Adam Clayton on the ********* issue.

Hi 4 Strings,

Thanks for your thoughts on all 3 matters that I have been posting in the last 2 days.
Not only am I a beginner with tupe amp construction, I am also somewhat new to forums and the etiquitte involved.
As a result, my two threads have accidenally merged into one, to a certain degree.

Adam Clayton is spot on!
There are very few song writers I like, who have kept politics or controversy from their music. My last response was somewhat intentionally ambiguous.
RolandS just brought up the political correctness issue, so I just thought I'd tone it down abit. Only for the sake of this forum do I think that I can manage to write two sentences and still remain P.C.
I have more effective outlets to voice my opinion in my community in Vienna.
I just want to keep the peace and share guitar and amp ideas.

Sjhusting had this (taken from my other thread) to add about using a 230 volt power transfromer in my 5d4:

"You will have to change the fuse from 2A to 1A - not a major design change.
BUT -
1950's technology is not really up-to-date - especially in the EU. You should also use a dpdt switch for the power switch; you should add a fuse to the secondary side; you don't use a ground switch or a "death cap," you should add screen resistors to the 6L6s."

I'm not certain if that's such a bad thing, as far as 1950s technology is concerned...
A 1A (slow blow I assume) instead of a 2A? Could Steve's suggestion have anything to do with the load on the mains switch that you mention?
At any rate, I'll start putting together a parts list for the circuit board as is.

I haven't received your email. It should be working.
Could be a forum or yahoo problem, who knows?
Here it is again: mode.isabey@yahoo.de

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks for your help!

O.John

Hi again!
The change to a 230 V PT shouldn’t necessitate any changes other than the actual transformer itself as far as I can see. Just check to see that the mains switch can handle the 230 VAC.

I sent you an e-mail to the address stated in you TDPRI member profile, have you received it yet? I have some info that you might find useful.

Without getting into any political discussions over VAT, Customs, EU et.c., I'd like to quote Adam Clayton of U2, who said in the Rattle & Hum movie, as the soundtrack played Star Spangled Banner Jimi Hendrix style, that “there are some people who’d say that you shouldn’t mix sports and politics or music and politics or whatever. Well…”. Here he pauses for a second, before concluding “I think that’s kinda *********.”
Now there are the TDPRI rules that say that political discussions should be held elsewhere. But still I can't help but agree with Adam Clayton on the ********* issue.

I am sure that Sjhusting is more knowledgeable than I am when you go into the more intricate details of amp electronics. I would follow his points, they definitely sound reasonable. I always use DPDT mains switches, but I have not yet gotten around to put a fuse on the secondary though it is a good idea.

Have a look at the "My amp is built. How should I power up for the first time?" section on this page: http://www.paulrubyamps.com/info.html. There are a few interesting points on how to startup your amp once you've come that far. Just be sure - as he too writes many times - to be absolutely confident about how to handle the voltages inside the amp!

You should also have a look at http://www.aikenamps.com/TechInfo_2.htm (esp. http://www.aikenamps.com/TI_Aiken_int.htm and http://www.aikenamps.com/TI_Aiken_adv.htm). It will keep you busy for a few days :mrgreen: .

I will try to post my e-mail again!

A.

A 1A (slow blow I assume) instead of a 2A? Could Steve's suggestion have anything to do with the load on the mains switch that you mention?
At any rate, I'll start putting together a parts list for the circuit board as is.

This question highlights what we have been saying - you need a basic understanding of electicity and electronics or you are going to toast something. Maybe just the expensive and hard-to-obtain tranny. Maybe your house via your electrics. Maybe if you have bad luck/management, you. You don't need much, just a little. You could find the info in about ten minutes on the web and read it in an hour. I did.

The transfomer changes electricity from your wall voltage, to what the guts of the amp want to see.

The US-spec transformer for a 5E3 takes 120 line volts AC and converts it at the secondary taps to 285 AC volts, where the rectifier converts it to about 350 DC plate volts.

The EU spec tranny takes 230 or 240 line volts and converts it to - 285 volt, where the rectifier converts it to about 350 plate volts.

That might tell you, and you would be right, that from rectifier-speaker, the rest of the amp will be identical. When Fender made export amps for sale in overseas markets, the inside circuit was identical to US-only amps.

The only thing that changed was the power adaptor plug and the multivolt transformer.

The only reason for changing the fuse is, because your line voltage is higher, your amp will pull less current at the socket.

Transformers are directly proportional and almost totally efficient: if you have a 2.5:1 winding plugged in to 110-120 volts it will produce about 280 volts.

If you had a tap halfway along that primary winding for 220-240 volts, the resulting 1.25:1 turn ratio would also give you ~ 280 volts AC at the secondarys. Both of them, provided the tranformer was beefy enough in iron core and winding wire dimensions, would power a 5E3 circuit. The export multitap tranny might be a different size, because the gauge of wire, laminations and winding pack may need to be different to support the differing primary voltage/current. But the maths is the same.

If you measured the idling current coming out of the wall plug, on 120 volts, it might be say 0.6-0.7 amp. So you need a 2-amp slo-blow fuse, because there will be times of high demand like startup where the caps draw lots of current, where the amperage will be high.

On 240 volts, the current would be 350-400ma. Therefore you need only a 1 amp slo-blow fuse to cope.

You could stick a 5 amp fuse (or a bit of straight wire) in there if you like - but you run the risk, especially on the 240 volt version, that any abnormality like a tube running away and drawing lots of current, or a dead short in the speaker or output transformer, will cause the power transformer to melt.

It's also a wise idea to fit something like a 200-250ma fuse between each leg of the power tranformer and rectifier for the same reasons - you want them to save your power tranny if something arcs like a tube downstream.

Dacious pegged it.

The DPDT is required in the EU, as far as I know. It's also just good sense - since the plugs are not polarized (in Germany, I haven't been in Austria for a while) you have no way of knowing which side is hot and which is neutral.

The 5D4 has its standby in the transformer CT, so at least it is not switching HV DC, like a standby after the rectifier, which would be a violation in any case. Switches rated for 240V AC might be rated for only 30V DC. I prefer to use a DPDT between the secondary windings and the rectifier. This is how Fender did it in the VibroKing, for example. I also use APEM switches, which are much more robust than the usual Carlings.

I also put a 220K/2W bleeder resistor over the first filter cap.

I fuse both sides of the primary and both sides of the secondary. Probably not necessary.

The screen resistors prevent runaway current on the screens. You shouldn't even think about not using them.

All of these changes are geared either towards safety or protecting expensive components. None of these changes affect the tone or the way the amp works.

One thing to keep in mind is you are building one amp, not ten thousand, so saving a few euros is just that - a few euros, not a few ten thousand euros. I don't understand why anyone would not opt for a dpdt over an spst, or four fuse holders instead of one.

But again, your questions show you should do some studying first - about basic electronics, and about safety.

steven

I'm aware of my ignorance and that makes me look forward to learning.

I assure everyone that I am not going to just try to slap an amp together. :smile:
I always put a great deal of thought and planning into what I do.
All your ideas, suggestions and concerns are very helpful.

By the time that I have an amp that I can power up, I know that it will be at a point that it is safe to do so. How ever long it takes does not matter. I have and will take the time my amp needs.
In the meantime, I already have an amp, so having "that tweed sound" RIGHT NOW is not my motivation - neither is expense.

The "simple instructions" that I was looking for would be more of a learing aid and I did not want to have to pay so much for an entire kit to get them. I knew there would be alot to study before starting anything.
DOING something helps me learn more about how and why something functions. So, I wanted to have something oriented toward the construction of a specific amp, even though my choices are beyond my level. Seeing what I don't understand also helps me learn what I need to understand.

If I'm not CERTAIN that what I build is CORRECT it will never find its way to a power source.

I am very greatful for all your posts.

Regards,
O.Johann

p.s. 4 Strings, I responed to your email. Thanks again!

I prefer to use a DPDT between the secondary windings and the rectifier. This is how Fender did it in the VibroKing, for example.

Thanks for the tip, I'll do this in my recent 5C5:ish and 5E7 builds and the rest that will follow!

I also use APEM switches, which are much more robust than the usual Carlings.


Thanks again, I'll check out APEM's switches the next time!

It's ok, it's just that maybe you've been reading the articles in the back of G&B and started thinkin 'gosh it would be neat to build my own amp.'

The thing is, if you build a fuzzbox and muck it up maybe you get 9 volts up the wazoo, but if you build an amp and muck it up, maybe you get 400 volts through the guitar cable, strings, your arm, your heart, and that's not so much fun.

The other thing is that just hooking it up right doesn't make it right. You can pretty much count on having all sorts of problems with your first build, which is why the tweed champ is such a popular first amp - there's not terribly much which can go wrong with it. And when things do go wrong you'll have to find out what to do. So you need some basic electronics knowledge so you can figure out where to go look for answers, and what questions to ask.

Your question about the fuse indicates you don't really know about Ohm's Law. Ohm's Law is pretty important. So those info links that 4strings and others posted are good starting points. The AX84 P1 theory document is also a must-read. (http://www.ax84.com/p1/P1_Theory_Document.zip)

You'll discover that ground is not ground, and properly grounding the amplifier is a big part of its success or failure. Grounding problems can be nasty.

anyway no one is trying to scare you away, just trying to make sure you know what you are getting into and that you treat things with necessary respect. Some of what I do in my amps may be overkill, but I'd rather err on the side of safety here.

steven

Just as an example of how we are always learning - I built my first amp, a 5E3clone, five years ago. It worked pretty well the first time I fired it up almost perfactly. it is still running, being used by a semi-pro who gets asked about it all the time. I've modded it, prodded it and it just runs like a Champ.

But the second, third, and fourth ones I built didn't, or didn't work well because I didn't learn enough the lessons on the way. Fluked the first one.

I just finished my latest project, a 1-watt, 1-tube 6BM8 amp using a back-back pair of filament tranformers as the power supply and a 100/70v line voltage transformer as the O/T. (total cost of components:$50) I've managed to relearn some lessons like being careful and being the 'one armed amp tech'. Got a couple of nasty tickles off the caps when my hand brushed the primary of the output transformer, even with the amp off and unplugged.

I also relearnt about the importance of configuring the filter caps correctly, as to where the caps connect around the dropping resistor and why; after scratching my head for an hour or two over a 50% drop in B+ and no sound. I was attempting to clean up jury-rigged wiring after attempting to rewire the filter cap array more neatly. D'oh.

So the more prep you do, the less cusssing, solder burns on fingers and charred components you will have later. Apart from anything else, you need the right tools apart from a soldering iron.

I strongly advise you to build something simpler like a 5F1 first, from a Weber or Ceriaone kit, both of who sell EU-voltage versions. It will teach you 80-90% of what you need to know. Like if you have any aptitude and patience for this.