5E3: 12AY7 or 12AX7?

A poll for you 5E3 owners.

Which do you prefer in your first preamp slot:

1. The old, lower gain, stock/"normal" 12AY7.

2. A 12AX7 for more gain.

3. Depends on my mood - sometimes either one.

4. Neither a 12AY7 nor a 12AX7. If so, which 12A*7 variant?

What kind of guitar(s) and music do you play through your 5E3?

you got me checking mine i got from jim at li'l dawg. he didn't give me a tube chart to use so i wasn't sure the order to put mine in.

from left to right mine is 2 RCA 6l6's followed by a raytheon 12ax7 and then a raytheon 12ay7.

how should it change my tone if i switched my 12a**'s ?

mine as set up is clean as long as i'm playing soft but gets dirty quick. would love a little more headroom in mine

I do not own a 5E3 (yet!). I do have a cheap Kustom Tube 12a practice amp. It came with a 12AX7 preamp tube that was too crunchy for me. I like overdrive, but I like it kinda smooth and not over-the-top. The stock 12AX7 got over-the-top when I turned the GAIN knob 1/4 of the way!

I put in a Phillips 5751, which is (if I recall correctly) mid-way between the 12AX7 and the 12AY7, gain-wise. I now have fuller use of the GAIN knob, I can still crank it, but I get nice, bluesy overdrive without too much distortion. I like to play mostly clean, but with a bit of overdrive when I dig in.

Somewhere online is a nice chart of the relative gain levels of different 12An7-compatible tubes. I can't find it at the moment. FOUND IT!! (http://thetubestore.com/gainfactor.html)

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/thetubestore_1993_41393008

I prefer the AY7; there's too much compression (for me) with an AX7 and a Les Paul or ES-335.

you got me checking mine i got from jim at li'l dawg. he didn't give me a tube chart to use so i wasn't sure the order to put mine in.

from left to right mine is 2 RCA 6l6's followed by a raytheon 12ax7 and then a raytheon 12ay7.

how should it change my tone if i switched my 12a**'s ?

mine as set up is clean as long as i'm playing soft but gets dirty quick. would love a little more headroom in mine



The first slot is cathode biased for a 12AY7, but putting a 12AX7 in will make for more crunch and preamp gain.

I put a cathode switch in my 5E3 so I can go from stock 5E3 to Marshall's 12AX7 values (stock 820/25uF or Marshall 2.7k/0.68uF) and with a 12AX7 and Marshall values it actually seems a little cleaner and almost louder (and obviously trimmed of a little Bass).

As mentioned, you can swap 12A*7 types for others for changing overall gain, but as you can see from my cathode switch, each 12A*7 tube has it's own cathode values it likes... so this changes the "gain" dynamic when just dropping them into a slot meant for a different 12A*7 tube.

By the way, I voted for both.

I like both sounds so I've been swapping in and out 12AY7 and 12AX7, depending on what I feel like playing (old Blues or Hard Rock), the guitar (Tele, P-90s, or Les Paul), and my mood.

i just swapped mine....still dirty and crunchy but seems a little quieter, less hum of which it wasn't really a prob before but this is an improvement.

lol..thnx for getting me to look.

if still undecided about a speaker for yours i have a jbl d130 15 inch i had rebuilt by weber. its 8 ohm. i've been planning to have jim make me a duplicate cab for my dawg so i have 2 15's..a bit of a mini stack. but jim to my knowledge isn't building cabs again yet.

would consider selling it as i could use the money too.

got about 150 in it.

I didn't like mine at all with a 12AX7 in it.

I haven't put it in yet but in my Bravo I have a 5751 and I will be putting that in...I like em!!

ce24

5e3 + 2x12" with webers and TELECASTER


5E3 with 12ay7 first.... excelente headroom, character, blues and clean rock sounds.... even accepts jazz ES335 at lower settings

with the 12ax7 it is to much into "one trick pony" distortion.

I'm actually using a GE 6072 in slot 1. I don't like the 12ax7 in the first socket; too gainy for me. As a matter of fact, I've got a GE 5751 in the second slot, too.

But Johnny, you can put anything your little heart desires in your JTM5e3

steven

But Johnny, you can put anything your little heart desires in your JTM5e3



"JTM5E3?"

HAHA

Like I said, it's all stock, but I can swap in Marshall cathode values for V1 with the mere flip of a switch.

As such, I prefer the 12AY7 when in stock mode... I kinda like the 12AX7 when in Marshall mode (especially with the Solid State rectifier and 60uF filter cap switched on and the 5Y3 switched off).

When in this configuration, sure it's a one trick pony, but the pony has 12" fangs and batwings :)

I have a Baldwin 12ax7 in my first slot which according to the amp tech I got it from while labled 12ax7 it is more of a cross between the 12ax7 and the characteristics of a 12ay7. These tubes were made for Baldwin Organs and are supposed to be a more refined (Higher Specs) tube than some of the standard tubes. What I was told anyway as was I was also told that the tubes you find in ocilliscopes are a higher spec too.

I had two 12AX7s in mine and thought it sounded pretty good. Then I put in an NOS rectifier and a 12AY7 in the first slot. A VAST improvement. Far less boxy sounding and more sparkle before the grind sets in. Much more versatile with the 12AY7.

I had to vote for switching between both. I went back and forth a couple of times and actually liked characteristics of both.I'm using an EH12AY7 and a JJ12AX7.

I like both. Sometimes I've gone for a 12AU7 or the 5751 as well.

Only own two electrics....tele and strat....and they sound wonderful through my slightly less 5E3...oh, did I mention that it only has one 6V6????

Perhaps I shouldn't be here??

i will use either....depending on the particular guitar i'm going to be using.
in general, those guitars with hotter P-ups get paired up with the AYs, those with lower output P-ups get the AXs....

I have no need for more dirt with my 5e3. The reason I like an AY7 is that I get a little more use out of the volume control.

I voted for the stock 12AY7. I don't play a 5E3 though. Hope it's okay :grin:
I play a tweed Tremolux 5E9-A copy made by MG Music (brazilian co.) which
is similar to a 5E3 with added tremolo and different, more crude PI.

I also use a 12AY7 on my homebrew Champ 5F1 'cause it tames that tweed
'fuzzyness' a bit and I like it better that way.

I've been using JAN 12AY7s in my 5E3 and 5F4 (and sometimes my 5F2-A). I play a tele and a Gretsch 5120 with Fralin P90's. I mess with old country, a little honky-tonk, some western swing and a little cajun/zydeco. I like a pretty clean sound and the 12AY7 seems to have a little creamier distortion when pushed compared to the harsher 12AX7. But, hey, what do I know. I'm just a fiddle player anyway.

Has anyone tried a Raytheon 12ax7/ w. Germany in the v2 position on a deluxe reverb?

12AX7 for more of a Marshall tone. I don't like the channels jumpered with this tube as much.
12AY7 for all round playing. Sounds great with the channels jumpered with my Tele. It fattens things up nice.

I definitely don't have a favorite. It depends on what I am in the mood for.

12ay7/6072 and old stock ones at that. Nothing I've tried sounds better to my ears. More sparkle, and there's already a ton of gain there. A 12ax7 is overkill to me.

I dont own a 5e3 but, I voted based on the pre amp tubes Ive tried in my Blackheart. I voted 12ay7 as I really liked the headroom it gives but, actually prefer 12at7s as they sit a little in beween the 2 (60% of an AX7 I think) Gives the headroom but not the volume drop of an AY7. Think Im using a nos Jan at the moment

My 5e3 is a Vic 20112. I believe I have an RCA 5751 in there. "Pegs my meter" just fine. If you're between 12AX7 and 12AY7, by all means, find one and try it. It may be just the fit you're looking for.

I like these a lot in both v1 and v2 positions, for both tweeds and BF/SF Fenders. Its the perfect "emergency" tube to have in your gig bag as it will sub in any position if needed in a pinch!

5751

"Marshall mode"...regarding the 2.7K/.068 mfd bypass. I had to go look at some Marshall circuits since my memories of early Marshall were that they used the 820ohm resistor with large capacitance just as the Tweed BAssman from which Jim Marshall drew his inspiration. The two cathodes were tied together in these schemes. The first use of a 2.7K resistor with the smaller bypass cap was with the 100-watt MD. 1959 Marshall from the 1970. That V1 in those amps had the cathodes separated...one cathode was bypassed with the 820ohm/250mfd circuit while the other cathode was bypassed with the 2.7K/.068mfd circuit. This is why I and many others like to daisy chain these two channels together, especially when using single coil pickups like a STrat....the 820ohm/250mfd side adds body and meat. All other Marshalls up to that time were outfitted with the Fender tweed type of cathode bypass values, right? 820ohm/250-300mfd. Marshall has done many things since they first started buidling amps. Interesting thing to switch between those two circuits, Johnny.

As to AY vs AX in V1 for the 5E3? ......I like the original set-up just fine. 12AY7's for me.

Do different brands of 6V6 tubes change the sound as much as the V1 preamp tubes? I have yet to experiment.

i tried the AX7 for a while, loved what it did for my solos, but couldn't get enough chord clarity for the stuff i play. so i switched back ... found an RCA AY7 for $25 at an old repair shop, and will keep it in til it gets too microphonic to use. i do jump the channels, though.