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How do you hook to PA with your electric?

Jenix
March 10th, 2008, 03:52 PM
I'm having problems at church with this any tips. I really want to go through an amp. Thanks

BuckyB
March 10th, 2008, 06:19 PM
You can plug your electric guitar straight into a PA that has 1/4" inputs, or through a Direct Box if it doesn't, but it won't sound good. It'd be very dull and lifeless, even if you adjust the PA channel's tone controls. You won't like it. The best way is with an amp modeler, such as a Line6 POD, Behringer V-amp, Digitech RP-series pedal, etc. I'm using the RP-200.

ChurchPlayer
March 10th, 2008, 08:11 PM
Yep. You need an amp modeler or at least some decent effects. In my experience if you need to go direct then the hotter the pickups the better. A straight Tele will sound a bit lifeless, while I've found G&L's with the MFD pickups actually sound half decent. I've run a Tele with just a pedalboard using a compressor with minimal squish just to boost things a bit and then OD and distortion pedals to approximate amp OD (it's funny, but I've found that the cheaper the better with the OD pedals in this situation - the low-end Boss pedals work well). But it sounds a lot better with some type of amp modeler. I'm using a Pod XT Live right now and while you'll never get the feel of having an amp there you'll at least get decent tones. If you can imagine playing with your amp isolated in a room far away and the tone being pumped through the monitor then you're 1/2 way there. You won't move air but you'll get tone that everyone but you will be fooled by.

LK
March 10th, 2008, 09:06 PM
I just mic my amp. I have a monitor but I also like having my amp there as well, just in case the sound guy turns my monitor down by mistake.

LK

giantslayer
March 11th, 2008, 01:23 AM
If you want to use your amp, then I guess you could just mic it.

romo
March 11th, 2008, 11:26 PM
Get a Shure sm57 or Audix i5 or some other instrument mic and stick it right up against the grill cloth of your amp. Sure the sound guy will yell at you all through rehearsal to turn down so go ahead and listen then turn back up once the service starts :)

But seriously, If you can mic the amp then do it and forget about modelers. You will be much happier with your tone.

giantslayer
March 12th, 2008, 12:20 AM
Sure the sound guy will yell at you all through rehearsal to turn down so go ahead and listen then turn back up once the service starts :)

I'm sure this was tongue-in-cheek, but...

I happen to be both a sound dude and a guitarist. Don't turn your amp up after practice. It really sucks when I've got a good mix going during practice, and then, all of a sudden, the guitar or bass player's amp is too loud for the room, even taken all the way out of the house speakers.

romo
March 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM
I'm sure this was tongue-in-cheek, but...

I happen to be both a sound dude and a guitarist. Don't turn your amp up after practice. It really sucks when I've got a good mix going during practice, and then, all of a sudden, the guitar or bass player's amp is too loud for the room, even taken all the way out of the house speakers.


I was partially kidding. The problem is that most church sound guys don't know what a good mix is. I played at the same church for about 7 years and we had a dozen different sound guys none of which had any experience with running sound or playing in a band or music whatsoever. The mix was horrible, the eq was horrible, the stage sound was horrible. Church sound guys are somewhat notorious for telling the guitarist to turn down but I am not trying to equate low volume to a bad mix (sometimes the guitar IS too loud).

I have since moved on to a place where we (the band) basically set up the mix ourselves and have someone sitting behind the board during the service to mute the mains when we aren't playing. The sound is a lot better this way because opposed to a volunteer running sound who didn't write the music and doesn't play an instrument; we (the musicians) are able to have the room sound the way we actually want it.

giantslayer
March 13th, 2008, 03:16 AM
Yeah. Good sound guys are somewhat rare. I suppose you'll usually see 'em in big churches. Maybe they get paid. Most sound guys you see in churches either A) Don't really know what they're doing, or don't know anything beyond the basics, or B) Don't care or can't tell that it sounds bad.

PraiseCaster
March 13th, 2008, 05:57 PM
I go direct to my pedal board, that goes direct to my amp, then a microphone placed in front of it, goes direct into the PA.

OK, seriously. I have heard from a lot of folks that use em, they are happy with the new PODX3 Live rig. Guitar into it, it into the PA. Thats what Lincoln Brewster uses, and his tone aint shabby at all!

BigWave
March 13th, 2008, 07:01 PM
I use a POD XTL. It works fine. The other guitar players (we have 3 teams) use amps. Lincoln Brewster played at our church a while back. I got a chance to talk with him a bit during setup. He likes thing simple. He had a POD XTL, Boss Blues Driver and a yellow Boss OD. Even the amp guys agreed his tone was quite good.

giantslayer
March 16th, 2008, 10:36 PM
I personally use a Vox Tonelab LE. It delivers some very nice, organic tones. The one downside is that the cab sim is mic'd on-axis and that's not adjustable. So, if you put that signal straight into a device like a Tech 21 Power Engine (http://www.tech21nyc.com/pe60.html) or Atomic amp (http://www.atomicamps.com/) and treat it like a regular guitar amp, it'll work great. But when you put it straight to headphones or live, it's really harsh. Point your ear directly at your guitar speaker and you get an idea of what I'm talking about.

The fortunate thing is this can be easiliy fixed with further EQ'ing. As you get a little off axis from a 12" speaker, you mainly lose the highs above 2-3k. So I got a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal and I cut the top two bands by several dB's. If you had it wired up to a mixer, you could center the mids at 5K and cut 3-6dB's. That would also fix it.

You might ask why I don't just use a modeler that has a selectable mic position? Because the Tonelab has an organic tube-like tone and feel to it that can't be added in to another modeler with EQ's.


And one more thing: Lincoln Brewster's tone is really good, especially on his live album.

scooteraz
March 17th, 2008, 12:22 AM
Been using a POD (either a POD 2 or a Floor XL) for a long time. Don't really like it so much, but....sound guys really like it. Have miked amps, but most amps are too loud for our stage situation. I am going to try a Princeton Recording amp over Easter. Use the DI out and the built in attenuator.

For Acoustic, I have used the LR Baggs DI box and a Fishman Aura. both worked fine, but the Aura sounds a bit better over the PA.

For mandolin, only microphones so far.

Jenix
March 17th, 2008, 06:34 AM
I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

telecaster1987
March 25th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I play my '85 MIJ Tele through an RP200, and we are fortunate enough to have POD XT Live pedalboards and an Aviom headset monitor system for our band/rhythm section and orchestra. This keeps our sound guys from pulling out their hair, and our pastor from getting nervous! We can adjust the level of everyone on the 16 channel headset mixer, which is really handy.

Brace for worship!

mcfm2n
March 27th, 2008, 12:20 PM
Jenix, I use a Palmer PDI-09 with my DRRI. Guitar, pedal board to amp. Amp speaker is my monitor and from the PDI-09 to the PA. It works very well.
Checked this demo video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTKkY-GmxLQ

I have two of these and love them, they record very well also.

telemaster03
March 29th, 2008, 04:47 PM
For me, the Line 6 XTLive is the only way to go. Into the XTL, then out to the P.A. We use the Aviom system so I always have the mix that I want.

This is the best rig for me sound wise, but also because I can recreate a majority of the sounds that I hear on the recordings.....we do a lot of Desperation Band, Paul Baloche, Brian Doerksen, etc. I can come up with a preset that I like and name it for the song and I can punch effects in and out like distortion or delay.

I's funny because I bought this pedal to use live, but church is about the only place it works for me. When I play out I go back to an amp. I recently obtained a Vox AC15CC to recreate the Vox model in the pedal.

Life imitating art, or the other way around?

chickenscratch
April 1st, 2008, 11:53 AM
try the Roland Cube or Micro Cube amps, they can work as a stand-alone amp, or go directly into a PA.

Guitfiddler
April 1st, 2008, 12:10 PM
I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

Too complicated? Does he set up mikes for the vocals, or is that too complicated for him? Its time to get a new sound guy, or send him to some classes.

Just put a mike up to the grill and have him pretend its a singer. You know, turn the little knobby things on the big board thing. He might get it.

dynocaster
April 3rd, 2008, 01:05 PM
I have a Line6 Flextone II that I have used in church since 2000. At my previous church, I just plugged into the XLR output and it sounded great, since it has the POD innards. However at my new church, there is a ton of can lights on the stage, and I can't find clean power causing the amp to pick up signal noise when I use the XLR out. I have started mic'ng with a SM57 at monitor level, mixing with normal stage volume (drummer is in a cage, where they need to be:wink:) and I let him pick up whatever gain he needs at the board. I've run 3 years like this with good results.

SatelliteOrders
April 3rd, 2008, 01:44 PM
I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

It's his way of saying "Go away, kid. You're bothering me". At least, that's my guess.

At my church, we go a long way to minimize the volume on stage. Drummer in a cage. Used to be, synth drums. Every stringed instrument get D/I boxes. In-ear monitors for all the musicians and the worship leader. Axioms, as mentioned. The other other guy uses a Boss GT-7 among lots of other multieffect choices. I uses a ToneWorks AX1500G, which is a bit of a toy compared to the Boss, but I can make it work. I have a bank of tones for my acoustic/electric and the rest set up for the Tele.

Does your amp have a headphone out? I used to do that, before I got the good rig.

buddywayne
April 3rd, 2008, 01:56 PM
I use my Roland Cube 20. I was really surprised at how good it sounds.

junk126
April 5th, 2008, 10:33 AM
I've used my POD XT Live hooked up to a Tech 21 Power Engine 60 for several years. It works great, as I can set the volume of the amp independent of the signal going to the board. This lets me turn up a little if I can't hear myself as well as I need to, but not loud enough to anger the sound guy or affect overall stage volume too much. I turn it facing me and tilt it back a bit. The open back of the cab faces the congregation. There's usually a small riser behind it so that helps since it's an open back cab.
Another option is one I used before I got my PODXTL. I have a small Marshall Lead 12, which is the older version of the Micro Stack they have now. It's a 12 watt solid state head with 2 separate 10" speaker cabs. I used the slanted cab with the head onstage and ran a long speaker cord to the other cab miked up with an SM57 under the stage. This worked really well also. Not as versatile as the PODXTL option, but, not much is when compared to all the stuff packed in there.

jnapruitt
April 5th, 2008, 09:19 PM
I have been using a LINE 6 POD for about 6 years. I have it tweaked for all of my guitars with each guitar set up on it's own bank. My sound guys love it! Mine is dialed in and sounds amazing! I can go direct into my Marshall 8200 or direct into the board... sweet as honey.

Good luck and God Bless!

PJ

scooteraz
April 7th, 2008, 01:57 PM
Currently I am using a Princeton Recording Amp. It has a DI out with independent volume. It also has the built in anttenuator. I currently love this solution.

This has been a superior solution to other low power amps or the POD (have two, ad POD II and a XT Live; the XT Live is better but still not a real amp). With low power amps, if you turn up to the point where you can get some good dirt during practice, the singers get it in their head that you are too loud and need to turn down. However, at the same volume during actual performances/worship, the overall level is so high that they cannot tell how loud you are if that is the only time you are at a specific level. So...you are left with practicing at a lower volume and only turn up during the service or antenuating somehow.

You could use your regular amp and a THD Hotplate. Those actually work pretty nicely, but I was only able to borrow one for a while, never bought one. A bit spendy at ~$350 delivered to your door, but not as bad as buying the Princeton (go figure on my priorities). There are other attenuators out there that have good reviews, maybe some are better than the Hotplate, but the hotplate has a PA out as well as the anttenuated signal to the speakers.

POD works OK. Most of the folks in the pews cannot really tell when everything goes through the POD. However, one thing is you ability to monitor your own playing is either you need a guitar only chanel (or an instruments channel) from the sound board, or you will only hear the final mix. We have been having problems with our guitar only monitor at our church, so...the guitars have a hard time hearing what they are doing. You can play the POD locally through an acoustic amp (I have used my AER) but...then there is yet another item in the link. POD, et. al. have the great advantage of being designed to provide output to a PA (although niether of mine have XLR outputs, need a matching transformer).

With the Princeton Recording, I leave the anttenuator volume down for practice, and turn it up for the worship, but the tones are pretty much the same. Use the DI out for the board. The built in effects are pretty good too. Not as cool as some of my better pedals, but if I want those instead, I can put my pedalboard in front of the Princeton. Best solution so far (short of a bigger building!)

guit30
April 7th, 2008, 10:09 PM
My friend goes thru a LR Baggs Para Di and sounds real good, he used a Boss DD2 Delay first
Jim

slashblack
April 19th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Well, IMO, it's hard to get good vintage tone out of a modeler. I always mic an amp. Of course, I do very modern worship music with distortion and the whole nine yards with effects. What style of worship do you do? Also, what type of PA gear are you running?

For instance, with modern worship and IEMs, my set up will be very different. But, I mic a Marshall 4x12 off stage and just run it into my ears as loud as I want. If you have an independent mix or have a person that will share with you, this is a good option. Just hearing an amp onstage will be different than what is heard through the front of house. Of course, the monitor will sound different from the front of house, but in finding your tone, hearing the cab/mic combo is very helpful.

The best thing with micing off stage is that the sound guys won't be so agitated by the inner guitar player- you know the one wants to crank it up;). You'll be able to turn up a tube amp more and get a better tone without scaring the church or your engineer. The sound isolation makes their job easier. There is a good chance that from the other comments, your sound crew doesn't know the difference between what's coming from your amp and what is in the front of house(basically, they need to control it).

Good luck and God bless!

Schundog
May 4th, 2008, 09:09 AM
We mike my Vox AD50VT backstage (walled off from the congregation) and it works great. Sure I can't adjust anything on the amp during the service, but I have my pedals in front of me. Not optimal, but the amp onstage was too loud for our situation. I tried my PodXT, Meh. Contemporary stuff, Casting Crowns, Robbie Seay, David Crowder, etc.

Jenix
May 4th, 2008, 02:20 PM
I think I may just give my sound guy the link to this thread

giantslayer
May 4th, 2008, 06:00 PM
I personally use a Vox Tonelab LE. It delivers some very nice, organic tones. The one downside is that the cab sim is mic'd on-axis and that's not adjustable. So, if you put that signal straight into a device like a Tech 21 Power Engine (http://www.tech21nyc.com/pe60.html) or Atomic amp (http://www.atomicamps.com/) and treat it like a regular guitar amp, it'll work great. But when you put it straight to headphones or live, it's really harsh. Point your ear directly at your guitar speaker and you get an idea of what I'm talking about.

The fortunate thing is this can be easiliy fixed with further EQ'ing. As you get a little off axis from a 12" speaker, you mainly lose the highs above 2-3k. So I got a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal and I cut the top two bands by several dB's. If you had it wired up to a mixer, you could center the mids at 5K and cut 3-6dB's. That would also fix it.

You might ask why I don't just use a modeler that has a selectable mic position? Because the Tonelab has an organic tube-like tone and feel to it that can't be added in to another modeler with EQ's.

I posted this earlier in the thread. I have since switched the tonelab from "line" mode to "amp" mode, which has a lot less highs and doesn't need an external EQ anymore. I did have to turn the treble settings on the amp models up a bunch, but I had the treble below 1 most of the time with Line mode, anyways.

I did an A/B test of my tone direct vs my tone mic'd through the Tech 21 Power Engine. The direct tone sounded the same as through headphones. I've actually come to a realization that the speaker sim on the tonelab isn't all that good - kindof 2-dimensional. However, the Tech 21 Power Engine has a real speaker and brings to the table what the Tonelab is lacking. They sound very good together (indistinguishable from a real tube amp) and very good mic'd. One advantage to this setup over a real amp is that the overdriven power amp tone comes from the Tonelab, not the amp, so it doesn't need to be cranked to get a better tone. (Of course, it still sounds way better loud.)

On mic position, the best position I found with my setup was the mic about 3-4 inches away, perpendicular to the amp, positioned about halfway between the center and edge of the speaker.

Jazzphone
July 2nd, 2008, 12:33 AM
We hook mic my cab off of the stage of my church. So the sound is directed away from the congregation and we leave my head on stage so I can still mess with it. It sounds great...much more natural.

Here is a video of how it sounds...you make the call. Tele with SuperSonic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpEsE__sjaI

J-Twang
July 2nd, 2008, 05:26 PM
I prefer to just mic my amp... our sound guy is good, and he and I both agree that the sound is better this way. Plus, since I'm one of the few without any monitors nearby, it helps me out alot.

JAMilrod
August 4th, 2008, 03:38 PM
We've had volume problems on stage, so I went away from micing my amp. It's also nice to not have to lug it around since I play elsewhere. I use my standard pedal board and can either plug in to my vintage Fender tubes, or in to a SansAMP ParaDriver DI and into the board.

I've been playing for 30+ years, have toured and recorded, and am pretty saavy about tone with vintage amps and guitars - but in the house mix, I think this sounds pretty good. This also keeps everyone happier on stage and gives our hard working sound volunteers better control. Did I mention I don't have to lug my valuable amps?

The newer SansAmp Character series also looks interesting, but I'm pretty happy with my ParaDriver DI (it also works well for acoustics).

Southpaw Tele
August 5th, 2008, 08:47 AM
This will sound really cheesy, but I picked up a Pocketpod for church work (my RP200 went south on me).

Pros: portable! I can fit it in the case with my Tele.

Cons: tone! It's tinny sounding and needs tweaking to get the right sounds. effects! the chorus is almost useless. no footswitch!

I'm really tempted to use my Toneport GX and laptop this weekend, but I'm unsure of how much RF noise I'll get. The toneport is WAY better than the pocketpod.

telechucker
August 10th, 2008, 07:07 PM
+1 on the Roland Cube amps. I use a 60w model - gets a great tone (IMO) and the sound guys love the fact that it has a line out on the back. Even though it's a 60w I keep it turned down and it sounds good. You just have to be prepared to spend a bit of time with the amp and find it's sweet spots. The grit / od settings are good too - I use the "Modern Metal" od sound but run it a bit cleaner. A first class amp. Great for everything. Regards.

robbysturgis
August 10th, 2008, 08:19 PM
press your face flat against the tolex....

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:11lMdPb1_M-QFM:http://www.e-av.co.uk/products/MICSENNE606.jpg

Sennheiser

doubles as a backup vocal mic as well:::

http://www.srvrocks.com/boot_review/srv-7.jpg

but you gotta play like this guy.

cpeters01
August 11th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Here's a few things I do...
-use an amp pointed at my head. (I usually don't move around too much) I put it on the floor and tilt it back with a little triangle of aluminum that I build for that exact purpose. My amp is a Marshall JCM900 that I run in the half power setting, usually the master is set to slightly under 3. Sometimes I use my 1963 Harmony 303A (champ sort of clone) but it gets lost very quickly if I don't have a good monitor mix. I am going to try micing a cabinet off/back stage though.
-mic the cabinet (I use a Shure sm57) and place it facing the cone of the speaker but at about a 30 degree angle or almost parallel to the side wall of the speaker. DON'T let the sound guy hang a mic in front of your speaker..sounds like poo...
-I have tried the direct box route and more often than not I get noise/buzz or worse...radio interference. You can never trust church wiring.
-I use a modeler direct to the amp to be able to get all the different kinds of effects I need without having a huge pedal board. Just a little Behringer X-vamp. I build a half dozen custom entries that have what I need all in consecutive patches so I can get to them fast and modify them slightly with the 'expression' pedal build onto the effect (IE turn the delay on or off or vary the timing, etc)
-smile lots

Cheers

pshuffield
August 21st, 2008, 07:36 PM
Shure sm57 slightly off center from the speaker cone. Get a reasonable stage volume and pray that the sound man has a good ear for how a guitar should sound.

CaptainJangle
August 22nd, 2008, 12:35 AM
I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

what is the Watts of the amp, i use a Twin Reverb, and as long as i use the angleback legs or a tilting amp stand there usually is never a problem with it. the thing i did was buy my own mic(sm57), because the soundman would just toss a vocal mic infront of it, and i did some research on mic placement with amps.

most soundguys at churches dont know anything about micing an amp, so do some research on micing techniques and that might make things easier.

the real fixer i think was using the SM57 because the vocal mics where alot higher output making it hard to control the mic'ed signal into the PA.

Rick Towne
August 23rd, 2008, 01:46 AM
On electric guitar I've gone through a mic'd amp in every service I've played in for the last fifteen years; from the L.A. Coliseum and Greek Theatre, to local megachurches to small 30 person meetings and have never had a problem getting the right volume and tone for the venue. No pods or other direct devices, and I'm not sure I could do that...or would have any interest in trying. It would be like a keyboardist with all programmed tracks. The amp for the last four years is a 2x6L6 1x12 Allen Old Flame.

raf
August 23rd, 2008, 02:47 PM
My band used to use a direct boxes between our amps & the PA - Redbox by H&K...the newer ones had speaker emulation, so you didn't lose your cabinet sound. Also made for one less live mic on the stage, which was a plus....simple & effective.:wink:

quackhappy
September 6th, 2008, 04:45 PM
Putting a microphone in front of the amplifier speaker works great. You can plug straight in but the sound won't be what you were expecting.

TelecasterSam
October 21st, 2008, 08:40 PM
I used to plug into the PA with an effects processor in between, but I would always lose tone quality. I haven't tried any of the modelling amps thru a PA, but did go with an expensive processor and even a Rockman for awhile. I always found that micing my amp sounded better. It was a quick setup to go direct but if you just get used to using an amp and a mic you will be better off....imo.

leonard d rock
October 28th, 2008, 05:14 AM
i have a little marshall combo that has a line out jack i plan to use. i haven't tried it yet thru the PA. what do you think about lineout jacks to the PA like this?

ldr

bargoedboy
October 28th, 2008, 11:24 AM
i use a peavey edi box which is cheap works great , no batteries needed , and most guitarists could not tell the difference when A/B`d with a SM57 at a demo i did a couple of years ago .

Robbied_216
December 10th, 2008, 06:10 AM
Put your amp off stage...If that means a long cable run, invest in a balancing DI for your lead into your amp...I can't remember who makes the yellow ones we use at our church, but I think its the same company as ToneBones and Hot British...mental blank.....

That way it keeps stage volumes low, but keeps good tone...

mhollingsworth
September 20th, 2011, 07:52 AM
Hi,

This is a fascinating topic and is something I've been trying to solve for a while now. Everyone has a different take on guitar rigs. I don't like to rely on amps for my sound because they're prone to breakage and are too heavy to carry around. I often play places where there are no house electric guitar amps or the stages are too small for amps, so the only choice is to go direct into the PA. I had one spot left on my pedal board and wanted to find a good solution to the "electric guitar direct to PA" problem.

After looking at all of the blogs and tons of DI's, I bought a Moen Buffalo DI. The reasons are:

1. It has balanced speaker emulated XLR out which can be run to the PA

2. It has unbalanced speaker emulated 1/4 out which can also be run to the PA or to a computer sound card

3. It has a 1/4 dry out which is run to your guitar amp (1,2 and 3 can be used simultaneously)

4. It has a signal attenuation level knob which can boost or reduce your incoming signal as needed.

5. It has a volume level knob to control your outgoing volume level

6. It also has a nice EQ which you can further use to adjust your sound. The EQ can be turned on or off via stomp-switch. If the EQ is off, 1,2,3,4,5 are all still active.

I put the Moen Buffalo DI at the very end of my pedal board. In this way I can choose where I want my guitar output(s) to go, all depending on what the venue has or does not have to offer. I also use a BOSS FDR-1 (amp (but not speaker) simulation) before the MOEN to add some vintage flavor to my tone.

I did the following A/B comparision:

A: Moen 1/4 guitar amp out to Roland Cube 60 amp (clean channel).
B: Moen XLR balanced and 1/4 unbalanced out to PA

I found that the tones in this A/B comparision were almost exactly alike and therefore decided to make the Moen a permanent part of my pedal board. It's strength is solving the problems of venues forcing me to play without an amp.

The Moen is quiet and adds little or no noise. If you're running direct into a PA and don't have a guitar amp, you'll still have a nice guitar tone from the PA when using this DI. If you have an amp, then you can use your amp on stage as your monitor and run the XLR from the Moen to the PA. However, the guitar tone coming from PA won't be the same as the tone coming from your amp, but it will still sound like a "guitar speaker" tone.

Hope this helps someone.

TG
September 20th, 2011, 08:50 AM
My Roland Cube 60 and my ZT Lunchbox have good line outs so I just have to run a lead to the desk.

With small tube amps I use one of these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Superlux-PRA628-Guitar-Cab-Microphone-e609-e906-CM2-/250851939561). I don't use the clip-on holder, I just put the cable through the amp handle and let the mic hang down.

mrSlush50
September 21st, 2011, 03:04 PM
Hi,

This is a fascinating topic and is something I've been trying to solve for a while now. Everyone has a different take on guitar rigs. I don't like to rely on amps for my sound because they're prone to breakage and are too heavy to carry around. I often play places where there are no house electric guitar amps or the stages are too small for amps, so the only choice is to go direct into the PA. I had one spot left on my pedal board and wanted to find a good solution to the "electric guitar direct to PA" problem.

After looking at all of the blogs and tons of DI's, I bought a Moen Buffalo DI. The reasons are:

1. It has balanced speaker emulated XLR out which can be run to the PA

2. It has unbalanced speaker emulated 1/4 out which can also be run to the PA or to a computer sound card

3. It has a 1/4 dry out which is run to your guitar amp (1,2 and 3 can be used simultaneously)

4. It has a signal attenuation level knob which can boost or reduce your incoming signal as needed.

5. It has a volume level knob to control your outgoing volume level

6. It also has a nice EQ which you can further use to adjust your sound. The EQ can be turned on or off via stomp-switch. If the EQ is off, 1,2,3,4,5 are all still active.

I put the Moen Buffalo DI at the very end of my pedal board. In this way I can choose where I want my guitar output(s) to go, all depending on what the venue has or does not have to offer. I also use a BOSS FDR-1 (amp (but not speaker) simulation) before the MOEN to add some vintage flavor to my tone.

I did the following A/B comparision:

A: Moen 1/4 guitar amp out to Roland Cube 60 amp (clean channel).
B: Moen XLR balanced and 1/4 unbalanced out to PA

I found that the tones in this A/B comparision were almost exactly alike and therefore decided to make the Moen a permanent part of my pedal board. It's strength is solving the problems of venues forcing me to play without an amp.

The Moen is quiet and adds little or no noise. If you're running direct into a PA and don't have a guitar amp, you'll still have a nice guitar tone from the PA when using this DI. If you have an amp, then you can use your amp on stage as your monitor and run the XLR from the Moen to the PA. However, the guitar tone coming from PA won't be the same as the tone coming from your amp, but it will still sound like a "guitar speaker" tone.

Hope this helps someone.

I've always said (not here, but I have said it) that if my only choices are direct to the PA via some sort of modeling pedal, or a solid state modeling amp, I'll take direct to the PA every time. It's essentially the same thing, just far more convenient. I'll grant you that the Roland Cube series are some of the best sounding modeling amps (meaning they sound the most like a tube amp) but none the less, I don't think you did the right A/B test.

I'm not at all surprised that you got nearly identical tones from a solid state amp and an amp modeler plugged directly into a PA. Try A/B/C'ing those two tones with a decent quality tube amp and tell me if you think all three sound the same. A and B will be doing their best to sound as much like C as they can, while C will sound like a tube amp because it is a tube amp.

Don't misunderstand, you might still decide to play direct. Many people do, and many of those people sound really great.

asatattack
September 22nd, 2011, 09:49 AM
Sennheiser 906 mic at the grill of the speaker, back to a DI box, out to the PA.

aunchaki
September 22nd, 2011, 10:40 AM
Acoustic Rig: L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI takes my guitars into the PA (it also has an effects loop)

Electric Rig: My VOX AD60VT is on a stand six feet behind me. It's mic'ed with an EV Raven dynamic mic. I try to balance the amp/PA mix so that people can sense that the sound is coming from the amp, but everybody also gets an even volume through the PA (no matter where they sit).

74 Deluxe
September 22nd, 2011, 11:20 AM
Hmm, I suppose if you never touch any of the knobs on your processors then you will lose tone going direct to the PA thru it... BUT, I can tweak my Digitech RP 250, to sound bigger and better (to me) than the other guitarist who goes thru his amp mic'ed. But as a bonus I am the sound guy too, our board is next to me and we aren't on a stage but on the side of the church, with the PA spkrs out front, so with just a few steps, I hear what they hear. I also play a variety of guitars both tele's and acoustics (with soundhole pickups)

epi-tone
September 22nd, 2011, 12:19 PM
Im suprised noone has mentioned (none that ive read) tube pre amps, decent ones are round $3-400 AUD, they sound awesome. The higher end ones would seriously trick you silly. Haha

Though conventional miking of an amp i still love but when times called for no amps, it has been the best option hands down.

AJBaker
October 6th, 2011, 11:48 AM
Best thing I can recommend is a tech21 character sansamp, which is basically just an analogue preamp. Most of the time I use on of these straight into the board, but even when using an amp I depend on them.

Nub
October 6th, 2011, 10:14 PM
At church, I run my guitar > pedalboard > Tech 21 Blonde > PA

I have the Blonde dialed in to sound just like my '59 Bassman LTD, and it works very well. I had my Blonde modded by Mike Putnam (http://www.putnamguitars.com/mods.htm) for a balanced XLR out... if it didn't have those mods, I'd run the Blonde into a good quality DI box, and then to the PA.

fuddy
October 7th, 2011, 10:25 PM
I play a variety of guitars (Les Paul, Strat, Tele, PRS) into a Digitech RP1000. The RP1000 has XLR out to the mixer/PA, and it also goes out to my Blues Junior tube amp, which I use as my personal guitar monitor. The RP1000 also lets me mix various pedals with it in a stomp loop.

This is a very versatile setup, and I've been using it for over a year and a half, and I'm really happy with the tone through both the PA and the amp. I don't use the presets on the RP--my favorite carefully tweaked settings use the VoxAC30 and Marshall JCM800 models, giving me a variety of clean, crunchy, and lead tones. The RP1000 reacts very tube-like with guitar volume--depending on the amp model, when I turn the guitar volume knob down, it's a nice clean sound, and as I turn it up, it breaks up very subtly and smoothly before going into a full out drive.

tjalla
October 9th, 2011, 06:14 AM
I can play, if necessary, an entire worship set with a Tim, DD7 (or DD20) and Palmer PDI-09. These work real good - not as good as a miced amp but in the 'heat of battle' not inferior as to make me miss the real thing.

But I'll check out the moen for the routing options.

TelecasterSam
October 13th, 2011, 02:43 PM
Use a Rockman X100! Just kidding, but I tried that for awhile along with a Boss Analog Delay. Believe it or not, with some adjustment and our good P.A. it wasn't bad.
Actually, for the past couple years, I have been using an SM57 mic on my Fender SS amp. It's simple, I can hear myself and the sound man can adjust my volume. I'd like to try a POD someday, but this seems to work fine.

MillerGuitar
October 13th, 2011, 02:51 PM
I have a 1966 Bassman that I play through and it gets mic'd up with a 57 every week. Went direct with a POD XT Live for a while. Won't be doing that again any time soon.

Oakville Dave
October 13th, 2011, 04:35 PM
I just mic my amp. I have a monitor but I also like having my amp there as well, just in case the sound guy turns my monitor down by mistake.

LK

+1

daddyopapa
October 13th, 2011, 05:42 PM
I'm really trying hard to mic the amp but the sound guy says its too complicated and I don't understand why.

Jenix, seriously, your sound guy doesn't know how to mike an amp?
What else doesn't he know?

Bunn
October 17th, 2011, 09:36 PM
i go tele>POD X3>Di AND montior through Aviom works great and i can save settings for alllll the different dotted 8th delays you have to use :roll:

Nothing beats a real amp bu thats not a choice where i am, now outside of church, its a Blackstar ht-60 !!! yeah its hard to go back and forth and what you dial in on the Pod at home aint what its gonna sound like in church !! So after the learning curve is over you have learned A LOT about sound and tones and dont have to lugg anything around hardly