Russian Tubes Question are they all bad?

jh45gun · February 28th, 2008, 10:28 PM

OK when I asked about those tubes I just got Realistic life time warranty ect I was told they are junk. Well I just picked up a tube amp for parts for my builds here is the post so tell me what I have and are they all bad?

OK here is the deal I took a chance and bought a junk amp today for parts for my amp building and I wanted the cab for some speakers I had. The amp was a Peavey Duel No speakers just the cab and chassis with tubes. I was hopeing it might be an easy fix but some twit took it apart and put the longer screws in the back on the front top and cracked the board burnt a resistor and burnt a hole in the board. and there was a huge resistor over the 6l6's that was fried. That was the two obvious things who knows what else. So of course the tubes are russian are they all bad? One 6l6 is a Groove Tubes an other is a Mesa Engineering (Where is that made? ) and two are brown base and it says made in Russia 0045. This one has a circle on the glass with a C in the middle of the circle and 3 short bars on the circle on the sides. The are opposited one longer on top with the middle a bit shorter and the bottom the shortest then on the other side the bars are reversed short longer longest from bottom to top. So who makes these tubes and are any of them any good? The 4 12ax7s had no markings at all. Now before some one says hey dummy why did you take a fixable amp apart that is up for debate. I feel comfortable messing with the tweed circuits but this was way to complicated for me so I took it to my tech friend and took out the chassis to show him the damage he said it could be fixec but could cost more than I want to put into it or what it may be worth. I got to figure a Mid 90's Peavey tube amp with circuit boards cannot be worth that much on the used market. An other red flag was some one had cut wires in the amp then taped them up and not good either also a plug was poorly taped on the power cord instead of replaceing. I figure for what I have into it not much if the tubes are good and worth keeping and I can use the cab for my speakers and If I can use some pots ect then I am not out anything plus I am hopeing both trannies are good. I did plug it in and nothing of course but the tubes did light up at least the filiaments did. So are the newer Russian Tubes OK or are they junk too?

Telelicious · February 28th, 2008, 11:28 PM

You should scour Craigslist and garage sales for a tube tester. A decent one that will test usable parameters. Not just good/bad, learn how to use it, and then a good Tube Characteristics book.

Hard to believe in the world of tube testers but two months ago I just missed a Navy Hickock TV/ model for $100. Depending on model and condition, some of these go for better than $500 on ebay. The best ones in perfect shape go for over $1000 on occasion. Crazy. The guy said he found it at a garage sale for $25.

I bought 150 tubes, three testers and an ancient ammeter off craigslist for $300 and then flipped them all for a total of over $1000. There are a lot of testers out there. I use a B&K 747B which is a late model solid state unit that is, I think the best overall tester there is. Ive seen that they go for $300 +/- on ebay.

Id say that good or bad is relative to how well its made to a ratio of what you are using it in and under what parameters.

marshman · February 28th, 2008, 11:35 PM

Well, as a tube dweeb, I can tell you that you've got a 'Winged C' svetlana 6L6GC (the one with the c in a circle). What it's value is is unknown. Mesa tends to buy their tubes from Russia, but it's actual origin is tough to tell. There are guys, however, that can tell from a photo, if it really bugs you.

Do the tubes 'function'? If so, they're worth something to you if you're inclined to fiddle inside amps. If you choose to try to DIY something someday, a set of known functional but not actually valuable tubes might be very handy. Guinea pigs tubes, as it were.

Meanwhile, it is entirely possible to install the guts from a different circuit in the chassis. Theoretically, you've got two maybe useful trannies, a chassis and a cabinet. Worst case, you install new sockets and a Princeton Reverb circuit board, spring for a new faceplate, and you're off to the races with the PR Twin. Keep the Peavey logos and it'll be less likely to be stolen, as well.

jh45gun · February 28th, 2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshman

Well, as a tube dweeb, I can tell you that you've got a 'Winged C' svetlana 6L6GC (the one with the c in a circle). What it's value is is unknown. Mesa tends to buy their tubes from Russia, but it's actual origin is tough to tell. There are guys, however, that can tell from a photo, if it really bugs you.

Do the tubes 'function'? If so, they're worth something to you if you're inclined to fiddle inside amps. If you choose to try to DIY something someday, a set of known functional but not actually valuable tubes might be very handy. Guinea pigs tubes, as it were.

Meanwhile, it is entirely possible to install the guts from a different circuit in the chassis. Theoretically, you've got two maybe useful trannies, a chassis and a cabinet. Worst case, you install new sockets and a Princeton Reverb circuit board, spring for a new faceplate, and you're off to the races with the PR Twin. Keep the Peavey logos and it'll be less likely to be stolen, as well.

Marshman, Thanks for the info on that Winged C tube. I am in the process of slowly building as I can afford it a 5f4 Super. My chassis is out of a Hammond Tone Cabinet and I just got a OT like the one that was in this amp for ten bucks. Be overkill for two tubes instead of 4 but the price was right. Now I got an extra OT if it works and a PT. The PT lit up the filaments before I junked it out so I at least know that part is good. Gonna use the cab for a 2x12 cab which I had to reverse the speaker mounts ( T nuts from the inside to the outside and mount the speakers inside as the frames did not fit the holes for a outside the baffle board mount. The peavey speakers must have smaller frames than the Eminence ones do.

Telelicious, Yea I am looking for a tube checker and I talked to a guy I know that may have one. Not sure of the shape its in or if he has a manual but I am hopeing I can get it from him cheap. For now I can take the tubes to my tech friend and have him test them if need be.

Tremo · February 29th, 2008, 03:20 AM

The Russkies make some good tubes. In the past, they have also made some klunkers.

The =C= winged C Svetlanas are good tubes. The out of production Saratov KT66 was good. The Sovtek 5881 is a tank. The New Sensor "Svetlanas" are good. So are most of the EH series tubes.

The Russian tubes that basically sucked were their 6V6s, their "6L6GC" that GT sold as a 6V6HD, and their early 12AX7s were toneless. Their early big bottle 6CA7 had grid alignment problems.

11 Gauge · February 29th, 2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremo

The Russkies make some good tubes. In the past, they have also made some klunkers.

+1.

I had an early =C= pair of 6L6's, when they were Svets, and they tood unbelievable abuse and sounded great.

I'm also a big fan of the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. My biggest gripe with modern production preamp bottles is that an inordinate amount (IME) are noisy - microphonic, too much hum, crackles, etc. The LPS's are pretty much a silent tube. Sonically, they aren't my favorite, but the tradeoff for a robust tube is worth it. I've actually really fallen for the Sovtek 5751, which is basically the same in construction as the 12AX7LPS, but with roughly 70% of the gain. It really works wonders in the first slot of amps like Marshalls, where you need as quiet and stable of a tube as you can find.

To each his/her own, but I generally don't care for EH tubes. Their 12AX7s have unuseable amounts of gain IMO. Their 6V6's don't have stout enough construction. Of their entire line, I've had the best luck with their EL34s, but they've drifted apart so significantly that they're no longer matched.

I basically use my amps as tube testers. Any given tube might sound bad in all but one of my amps. As for power tubes, typically futzing with the bias for awhile will eventually yield some magic. Certain tubes seem to have a much smaller "window" where they sound right, as far as biasing is concerned.

6942 · February 29th, 2008, 09:34 AM

I have six NOS Russian Reflextor EL84 tubes from the 70's.....pretty rugged build, decent sounding, and.... ....so far........reliable.
The Russian military bought tubes by the millions.....while most Western armed forces had gone transistor years ago before.
That's why NOS Russian tubes are so plentiful......and cheap!

Steve

Tim Swartz · February 29th, 2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremo

Their early big bottle 6CA7 had grid alignment problems.

I've got one of these in my display case that looks like it has a bullet hole in it. I pulled it from a Sovtec Mig (50? 60?) that I serviced for Elderly about 10 years ago. It got so hot that the glass melted and the vacuum sucked it in at that point.

TelZilla · February 29th, 2008, 12:27 PM

I have a pair of (new) Tung Sol 6V6's that sound awesome to me.

jh45gun · February 29th, 2008, 03:12 PM

Thanks for the replys guys I feel better about my junk amp purchase now knowing the tubes are good (At least I hope they are good using them will tell when I get my amp built down the line) For the money I paid for it 50 bucks I got a open back 2x12 cab a PT and OT hopefully good and 4 each of 6l6 and 12ax7 tubes so I think it was well worth it if all the parts listed above are good. Plus Reverb tank and knobs, pots and assorted parts.

jh45gun · February 29th, 2008, 04:20 PM

Well talked to Peavey they said that it was possible that one of the 6l6s was bad (shorted plates) and that would cause that large resistor to fail which was one of the problems in that amp I junked So I guess I will get them checked out before using in an amp to be on the safe side. Too bad someone cracked the board and shorted it out as other wise that resistor and tube could have been an easy fix if that had been the only things wrong. I had found on the board an other blackened spot plus the early one I found so this board had enough issues to make it a costly repair.

February 28th, 2008, 10:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,011	Russian Tubes Question are they all bad? OK when I asked about those tubes I just got Realistic life time warranty ect I was told they are junk. Well I just picked up a tube amp for parts for my builds here is the post so tell me what I have and are they all bad? OK here is the deal I took a chance and bought a junk amp today for parts for my amp building and I wanted the cab for some speakers I had. The amp was a Peavey Duel No speakers just the cab and chassis with tubes. I was hopeing it might be an easy fix but some twit took it apart and put the longer screws in the back on the front top and cracked the board burnt a resistor and burnt a hole in the board. and there was a huge resistor over the 6l6's that was fried. That was the two obvious things who knows what else. So of course the tubes are russian are they all bad? One 6l6 is a Groove Tubes an other is a Mesa Engineering (Where is that made? ) and two are brown base and it says made in Russia 0045. This one has a circle on the glass with a C in the middle of the circle and 3 short bars on the circle on the sides. The are opposited one longer on top with the middle a bit shorter and the bottom the shortest then on the other side the bars are reversed short longer longest from bottom to top. So who makes these tubes and are any of them any good? The 4 12ax7s had no markings at all. Now before some one says hey dummy why did you take a fixable amp apart that is up for debate. I feel comfortable messing with the tweed circuits but this was way to complicated for me so I took it to my tech friend and took out the chassis to show him the damage he said it could be fixec but could cost more than I want to put into it or what it may be worth. I got to figure a Mid 90's Peavey tube amp with circuit boards cannot be worth that much on the used market. An other red flag was some one had cut wires in the amp then taped them up and not good either also a plug was poorly taped on the power cord instead of replaceing. I figure for what I have into it not much if the tubes are good and worth keeping and I can use the cab for my speakers and If I can use some pots ect then I am not out anything plus I am hopeing both trannies are good. I did plug it in and nothing of course but the tubes did light up at least the filiaments did. So are the newer Russian Tubes OK or are they junk too?

February 29th, 2008, 03:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tremo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,734	The Russkies make some good tubes. In the past, they have also made some klunkers. The =C= winged C Svetlanas are good tubes. The out of production Saratov KT66 was good. The Sovtek 5881 is a tank. The New Sensor "Svetlanas" are good. So are most of the EH series tubes. The Russian tubes that basically sucked were their 6V6s, their "6L6GC" that GT sold as a 6V6HD, and their early 12AX7s were toneless. Their early big bottle 6CA7 had grid alignment problems. __________________ Exposing the CONs. www.myspace.com/59tremolux

February 29th, 2008, 12:27 PM	#9 (permalink)
TelZilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleveburg, USA Age: 38 Posts: 1,945 6 Photos	I have a pair of (new) Tung Sol 6V6's that sound awesome to me. __________________ Thanks,Nick Nec Aspera Terrent

February 28th, 2008, 11:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Telelicious Banned Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 44 Posts: 403	You should scour Craigslist and garage sales for a tube tester. A decent one that will test usable parameters. Not just good/bad, learn how to use it, and then a good Tube Characteristics book. Hard to believe in the world of tube testers but two months ago I just missed a Navy Hickock TV/ model for $100. Depending on model and condition, some of these go for better than $500 on ebay. The best ones in perfect shape go for over $1000 on occasion. Crazy. The guy said he found it at a garage sale for $25. I bought 150 tubes, three testers and an ancient ammeter off craigslist for $300 and then flipped them all for a total of over $1000. There are a lot of testers out there. I use a B&K 747B which is a late model solid state unit that is, I think the best overall tester there is. Ive seen that they go for $300 +/- on ebay. Id say that good or bad is relative to how well its made to a ratio of what you are using it in and under what parameters.

February 28th, 2008, 11:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
marshman Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SE PA Posts: 874	Well, as a tube dweeb, I can tell you that you've got a 'Winged C' svetlana 6L6GC (the one with the c in a circle). What it's value is is unknown. Mesa tends to buy their tubes from Russia, but it's actual origin is tough to tell. There are guys, however, that can tell from a photo, if it really bugs you. Do the tubes 'function'? If so, they're worth something to you if you're inclined to fiddle inside amps. If you choose to try to DIY something someday, a set of known functional but not actually valuable tubes might be very handy. Guinea pigs tubes, as it were. Meanwhile, it is entirely possible to install the guts from a different circuit in the chassis. Theoretically, you've got two maybe useful trannies, a chassis and a cabinet. Worst case, you install new sockets and a Princeton Reverb circuit board, spring for a new faceplate, and you're off to the races with the PR Twin. Keep the Peavey logos and it'll be less likely to be stolen, as well.

February 29th, 2008, 09:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
6942 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Western Maryland Posts: 1,578	I have six NOS Russian Reflextor EL84 tubes from the 70's.....pretty rugged build, decent sounding, and.... ....so far........reliable. The Russian military bought tubes by the millions.....while most Western armed forces had gone transistor years ago before. That's why NOS Russian tubes are so plentiful......and cheap! Steve

February 29th, 2008, 03:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,011	Thanks for the replys guys I feel better about my junk amp purchase now knowing the tubes are good (At least I hope they are good using them will tell when I get my amp built down the line) For the money I paid for it 50 bucks I got a open back 2x12 cab a PT and OT hopefully good and 4 each of 6l6 and 12ax7 tubes so I think it was well worth it if all the parts listed above are good. Plus Reverb tank and knobs, pots and assorted parts.

February 29th, 2008, 04:20 PM	#11 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,011	Well talked to Peavey they said that it was possible that one of the 6l6s was bad (shorted plates) and that would cause that large resistor to fail which was one of the problems in that amp I junked So I guess I will get them checked out before using in an amp to be on the safe side. Too bad someone cracked the board and shorted it out as other wise that resistor and tube could have been an easy fix if that had been the only things wrong. I had found on the board an other blackened spot plus the early one I found so this board had enough issues to make it a costly repair.