5e3 clean

ce24 · February 24th, 2008, 06:38 PM

Is this amps clean sound robust enough for gigging. I'm looking at building but the word about it's clean not being too good is scaring me.

Thanks

ce24

BrianF · February 24th, 2008, 06:48 PM

It depends on what kind of music you play. Keep in mind that the Fender tweed-era amps were raw sounding. They break up and distort when you either drive them hard or crank them up. Desirable features for classic rock and blues. If you play pure country and looking for a clean amp...you should be looking at more modern Fender design ...such as a blackface or silverface Fender..Twin Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb etc

rhinocaster · February 24th, 2008, 06:52 PM

My short answer for this is going to be no. With a drummer I would need about 30-35 watts minimum if I wanted clean.

I play tweeds exclusively and my main amp is a tweed deluxe. It really doesn't do clean in a band situation. Still, when mic'd it's perfect for my needs.

ce24 · February 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM

I can mic it.. I play in a duo but we use full backing tracks...Right now I use a Peavey c30.....we do country (a little bit), classic rock, blues ,pop..

thanks for the replies

ce24

petebradt · February 24th, 2008, 08:49 PM

As much as I love my Hullett 5E3, if I need clean uber-clean, onstage or recording, I use my 5F4 Super. I DO get a great clean out of my 5E3 if I just back off the volume control a bit.

It'll be interesting to see, after our record is released, whether y'all think Tweeds are "raw." They can be and when cranked, they're the best kind of raw, but there are GREAT cleans to be found in some of the tweed circuits.

My belief is most of the people who claim tweeds don't have good cleans are people who dime their guitars from the word go, and never touch their volume knobs. YMMV.

jh45gun · February 24th, 2008, 09:20 PM

Just mic it or if ya really like the sound of it line it out like I described in that line out post to an other amp for more clean vol. They do have a nice passable clean sound when not cranked. Like I keep saying that early classic country from the 50's had to come from Tweeds and amps like it thats all they had.

Melody · February 25th, 2008, 08:29 AM

Learning to use the volume and tone controls on a guitar are as important as learning chords..IMO.....

petebradt · February 25th, 2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody

Learning to use the volume and tone controls on a guitar are as important as learning chords..IMO.....

I completely agree, but you'd be surprised how many people, here and elsewhere, never touch them.

Larry F · February 25th, 2008, 11:36 AM

How about a 5e3x2 from Weber (does someone else do this?)?

petebradt · February 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM

it's easy to source the parts for a "Double Deluxe." I'd use Hoffman for a lot of it, Mercury Iron and Tube Depot for tubes.

crossroader · February 25th, 2008, 03:44 PM

Loading it with an effiecient speaker can help a lot. I chose a Red Fang for my 5E3 build for that reason. Personally, I love the clean tone from tweed circuits.

With a mic on an efficient speaker, you might be just fine, especially in your situation (duo with backing tracks). Turn the stage volume down to keep the 5E3 clean and turn things back up through the PA.

old_picker · February 25th, 2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petebradt

As much as I love my Hullett 5E3, if I need clean uber-clean, onstage or recording, I use my 5F4 Super. I DO get a great clean out of my 5E3 if I just back off the volume control a bit.

It'll be interesting to see, after our record is released, whether y'all think Tweeds are "raw." They can be and when cranked, they're the best kind of raw, but there are GREAT cleans to be found in some of the tweed circuits.

My belief is most of the people who claim tweeds don't have good cleans are people who dime their guitars from the word go, and never touch their volume knobs. YMMV.

exactly - if you want uber clean the 5f4 super is a great circuit - the 5e3 is multi dimensional beast but really not suitable to playing loud and clean - it gets a warm clean tone at low volume 10 to 20% and the guitar volume at 50-75% - also using vintage style single coil p/ups will get you more cleans than using a grunty les paul

spankdplank · February 25th, 2008, 05:17 PM

In duo with a PA, I think a 5E3 would be fine for clean, if your PA can do the volume you need. As others here have said, there is a lot of tonal variety in a 5E3, from twang to fuzz, its just that the clean twang is in the low volume area of the amp and you may not have enough volume until you get dirty. I have gigged my 5E3 quite a bit playing instrumental surf, honkytonk country, classic rock and blues, all in the same set and it covered them all well, provided there was enough support from the PA.

ce24 · February 25th, 2008, 06:15 PM

I've settled the issue...I'm going to build the 5E3. I was seriously looking at a 70's Princeton Reverb. then I looked at my Bravo and it's rated at 25 watts and I only need it on 3 for volume so I'm sure the 5E3 at 18 Watts will be just fine. Yes using the guitar vol knob will be just that much more fun to play. I appreciate all the info and replies..I'll be ordering this week!!!My Agile tele has bill Lawrence 280/290's they are superbly clean so I should be a happy camper.

Cheers
c24

Mike H. · February 25th, 2008, 06:31 PM

I love the 5E3 circuit for what it is, but not for clean tones. It's not going to come anywhere near your Classic 30 for clean volume. The 5E3 will do some beautiful low volume cleans, but you will need a PA to boost it to gig levels.

JDO · February 25th, 2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ce24

I've settled the issue...I'm going to build the 5E3. I was seriously looking at a 70's Princeton Reverb. then I looked at my Bravo and it's rated at 25 watts and I only need it on 3 for volume so I'm sure the 5E3 at 18 Watts will be just fine. Yes using the guitar vol knob will be just that much more fun to play. I appreciate all the info and replies..I'll be ordering this week!!!My Agile tele has bill Lawrence 280/290's they are superbly clean so I should be a happy camper.

Cheers
c24

i personally like the volume/tone setup of the 5e3. but if you want more control over the clean range you might want to look into putting a 6g3 volume/tone setup in your 5e3. if you're getting your kit from mission amps you can just order the tone mod kit. or you can get a 1m dual ganged pot for the tone pot and just order the extra caps and resistors you need. this will give you greater control over the clean range. it doesn't give you any more clean. as set up, the dirt starts about 3 on the dial. with this mod it'll start much later on the dial but be the same amount of dirt and the same volume. you can just dial in the clean volume a little better. it will act like you expect volume pots to act.
hth

Doc · February 25th, 2008, 07:11 PM

I love the clean tones. But, there is not much for head room. The speaker makes a huge difference with that amp clean in my perception. But, you need headroom you will have to mic it. A bigger issue may be the bass with it.

jh45gun · February 25th, 2008, 09:59 PM

Ce24 they are 15 watts not 18

JohnnyCrash · February 26th, 2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ce24

I can mic it.. I play in a duo but we use full backing tracks...Right now I use a Peavey c30.....we do country (a little bit), classic rock, blues ,pop..

thanks for the replies

ce24

A duo? Yeah, especially mic'ed. Especially with you able to control the backing track volume.

Especially with a Telecaster. Single coil pickups will OD a bit less.

Especially with a 12AY7 in that first socket (like they used to be, folks these days use 12AX7s for more drive and gain).

I like a raw, warm, ragged kinda "clean." Cleans that are almost dirty compress nicely. SF Fenders are just downright squeaky clean, some BF Fenders are a sorta "warm" clean, and tweeds are often a raunchy "sorta clean." Listen to 5E3 soundclips and you'll see they can still be clean.

I will stop saying "especially" now...

Jim L · February 26th, 2008, 09:05 AM

Anything can be clean if properly mic'd and your PA can handle it. But a Tweed Deluxe isn't really intended for cleans, ya know?

I have someone building me a 5e3 at this time. I'm not gigging right now, so my 35 watt Holland amp was collecting dust. I figured a 15 watter is more likely to work at home and with friends. If I ever get around to gigging again, I'd just mic it, need be. The Holland was great clean, as was my 73 Pro Reverb, but while the cleans were great, it's a lot of amp for your situation (as you're finding with the Classic 30).

As someone here described, there are BF Fender cleans, SF cleans, and tweed "kinda" cleans. A big tweed amp (say a Bassman) can be pretty clean and loud, but it's when you get to that point of just pushing it beyond clean is when you start hearing (IMHO) it's best tones. The tweed Deluxe gets to that point at a much lower volume. If you have the PA power to mic the amp, I would think you'd rather run the risk of being slightly underpowered rather than really overpowered. An amp turned way down due to being overpowered for the room, to me, never brings out it's best tones.

February 24th, 2008, 06:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 357	5e3 clean Is this amps clean sound robust enough for gigging. I'm looking at building but the word about it's clean not being too good is scaring me. Thanks ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

February 24th, 2008, 06:52 PM	#3 (permalink)
rhinocaster Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Age: 44 Posts: 1,168	My short answer for this is going to be no. With a drummer I would need about 30-35 watts minimum if I wanted clean. I play tweeds exclusively and my main amp is a tweed deluxe. It really doesn't do clean in a band situation. Still, when mic'd it's perfect for my needs. __________________ Just because I "Don't" get it doesn't mean I "Won't" get it!

February 24th, 2008, 07:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 357	I can mic it.. I play in a duo but we use full backing tracks...Right now I use a Peavey c30.....we do country (a little bit), classic rock, blues ,pop.. thanks for the replies ce24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

February 25th, 2008, 11:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Larry F Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Iowa City, IA Age: 55 Posts: 2,299	How about a 5e3x2 from Weber (does someone else do this?)? __________________ larry

February 25th, 2008, 03:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
crossroader Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Endicott, NY Age: 51 Posts: 145	Loading it with an effiecient speaker can help a lot. I chose a Red Fang for my 5E3 build for that reason. Personally, I love the clean tone from tweed circuits. With a mic on an efficient speaker, you might be just fine, especially in your situation (duo with backing tracks). Turn the stage volume down to keep the 5E3 clean and turn things back up through the PA. __________________ Mark Flying blind on a rocket cycle.

February 24th, 2008, 06:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
BrianF Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carlsbad, Ca Posts: 2,113 7 Photos	It depends on what kind of music you play. Keep in mind that the Fender tweed-era amps were raw sounding. They break up and distort when you either drive them hard or crank them up. Desirable features for classic rock and blues. If you play pure country and looking for a clean amp...you should be looking at more modern Fender design ...such as a blackface or silverface Fender..Twin Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb etc

February 24th, 2008, 08:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,345 12 Photos	As much as I love my Hullett 5E3, if I need clean uber-clean, onstage or recording, I use my 5F4 Super. I DO get a great clean out of my 5E3 if I just back off the volume control a bit. It'll be interesting to see, after our record is released, whether y'all think Tweeds are "raw." They can be and when cranked, they're the best kind of raw, but there are GREAT cleans to be found in some of the tweed circuits. My belief is most of the people who claim tweeds don't have good cleans are people who dime their guitars from the word go, and never touch their volume knobs. YMMV.

February 24th, 2008, 09:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 960	Just mic it or if ya really like the sound of it line it out like I described in that line out post to an other amp for more clean vol. They do have a nice passable clean sound when not cranked. Like I keep saying that early classic country from the 50's had to come from Tweeds and amps like it thats all they had.

February 25th, 2008, 08:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
Melody TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 81 6 Photos	Learning to use the volume and tone controls on a guitar are as important as learning chords..IMO.....

February 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,345 12 Photos	it's easy to source the parts for a "Double Deluxe." I'd use Hoffman for a lot of it, Mercury Iron and Tube Depot for tubes.

February 25th, 2008, 05:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
spankdplank Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 566 22 Photos	In duo with a PA, I think a 5E3 would be fine for clean, if your PA can do the volume you need. As others here have said, there is a lot of tonal variety in a 5E3, from twang to fuzz, its just that the clean twang is in the low volume area of the amp and you may not have enough volume until you get dirty. I have gigged my 5E3 quite a bit playing instrumental surf, honkytonk country, classic rock and blues, all in the same set and it covered them all well, provided there was enough support from the PA.

February 25th, 2008, 06:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
ce24 Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Age: 57 Posts: 357	I've settled the issue...I'm going to build the 5E3. I was seriously looking at a 70's Princeton Reverb. then I looked at my Bravo and it's rated at 25 watts and I only need it on 3 for volume so I'm sure the 5E3 at 18 Watts will be just fine. Yes using the guitar vol knob will be just that much more fun to play. I appreciate all the info and replies..I'll be ordering this week!!!My Agile tele has bill Lawrence 280/290's they are superbly clean so I should be a happy camper. Cheers c24 __________________ www.motagator.net/slackwater "you can be happy or you can be miserable..the amount of work is the same"

February 25th, 2008, 06:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mike H. TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Age: 53 Posts: 91	I love the 5E3 circuit for what it is, but not for clean tones. It's not going to come anywhere near your Classic 30 for clean volume. The 5E3 will do some beautiful low volume cleans, but you will need a PA to boost it to gig levels.

February 25th, 2008, 07:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
Doc Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Dakota Posts: 921	I love the clean tones. But, there is not much for head room. The speaker makes a huge difference with that amp clean in my perception. But, you need headroom you will have to mic it. A bigger issue may be the bass with it. __________________ Guitars: Teles, LP, others. Amps: El Diablo, Richter 5E3, 5E3 Head, Traynor Bass Master II, Epi Jr Head, Gretsch/Supro, 60's Univox and others. Current Board-Guitar>Tuner>Java Boost> Huckleberry>Fuzz Head>Top Fuel>SFX-03> Keeley Comp>Clone Chorus>FL3> Amp

February 25th, 2008, 09:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 960	Ce24 they are 15 watts not 18

February 26th, 2008, 09:05 AM	#20 (permalink)
Jim L Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 378 13 Photos	Anything can be clean if properly mic'd and your PA can handle it. But a Tweed Deluxe isn't really intended for cleans, ya know? I have someone building me a 5e3 at this time. I'm not gigging right now, so my 35 watt Holland amp was collecting dust. I figured a 15 watter is more likely to work at home and with friends. If I ever get around to gigging again, I'd just mic it, need be. The Holland was great clean, as was my 73 Pro Reverb, but while the cleans were great, it's a lot of amp for your situation (as you're finding with the Classic 30). As someone here described, there are BF Fender cleans, SF cleans, and tweed "kinda" cleans. A big tweed amp (say a Bassman) can be pretty clean and loud, but it's when you get to that point of just pushing it beyond clean is when you start hearing (IMHO) it's best tones. The tweed Deluxe gets to that point at a much lower volume. If you have the PA power to mic the amp, I would think you'd rather run the risk of being slightly underpowered rather than really overpowered. An amp turned way down due to being overpowered for the room, to me, never brings out it's best tones.