Point to point wiring, what is it and why?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by zook

You know, years ago, before the internet, before all the information glut, we bought an amp because we liked what it did, how it sounded and if it was loud enough for our need. Biasing? huh? We plugged in the tube and played. Components? They were usually the cheapest parts off the shelf. Leo Fender was famous for that. Now we have a gut of opinions, products, and most of all hype.

My advice is buy what sounds good to you. Who cares what's inside it or how it's built? If it meets your heeds, use it.

Hype is all about whose dick is biggest, not how the unit meets your need.

Winnie

C'mon Winnie, tell us what'cha really think.

Yeah, back the late 50's, early 60's, no one knew or cared squat about amps. Tube blew on a Deluxe? Down to the corner drug store and buy another - no thoughts about value matching or biasing - and we still had a ton o' fun playing and no one in our audience could o' cared less ... same for yer audience today. We're the only ones obsessing over this thing called "tone".

That said, gimme the PTP amp over PCB, every time, for the reasons I've already stated.

[Scotland]

I have a PTP amp, it's a '76 Twin Reverb. I personally couldn't care less whether it is PTP or not, I care more for the sound and reliability. So far it has had both in spades. My bandmates probably have no idea what amp I play and couldn't care less whether or not it's PTP just as long as it sounds good. I recently has a Bassman LTD which is not PTP and it sounded great too.

[Bswailes]

Originally Posted by Jaybird

at
http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/.

Jaybird!
Mark Huss is right hereabouts and comes with a stellar reputation. Some players have said wondrous things about his amp build skills. Not too shoddy as a player, either.

[fauxsuper]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

There we go.

BB King has attrocious tone IN MY OPINION, but he's sold more albums than I can dream. AND... He plays a Solid State amp!

All that matters is that WE like the racket the dang thing makes.

In the long run - Who cares what its made from :)

I don't know if BB King still uses those Lab series amps, but I doubt you'd give a newby this advice: "Get one of those Lab series amps, you'll sound just like BB King." You also are not likely to find anyone making replicas of those amps anytime soon.

Myself, I'm not good enough to sound that good without a little help from my equipment. That's why I come to this site for advice, (which I always take with a grain of salt). If tone was 100% in the hands, this would be discussion page about skeletal structure and callous care.

All of us tend to become fond of the devices we use to make music. It's a natural tendancy to "defend" them from perceived "attacks". We use the quirks our individual peices have, and over time turn them into elements of our style.

The fact that this site even exists is proof of this. Telecasters are instruments that are not without quirks, and I've read countless testimony by many players, From Mike Bloomfield to John Scofield that playing a Telecaster at one time or another, has left it's imprint on them.

The concept that solid state, PCB amps, or modeling amps are "inferior" to hand wired amps is a cliche, and like all such concepts, does have some basis in fact. I'd bet that most of us, if given a list of amps to choose from with only the above four construction methods listed, with no more information given would take the hand wired amp most every time.

Iwill buy into the concept that PCB amps can be made, if care is taken in constuction and layout, to sound as good as a hand wired amp. But I don't think they will be as easy to modify or be as serviceable for the guy with average soldering skills as a hand wired version. They will also cost nearly as much as a hand wired amp, and thus be a little harder to market.

[JohnnyCrash]

I'll say it again... it is all conjecture unless you've built, modified, and repaired all types.

Again, "facts" are not "facts" just because one says so.

Mark has a great deal of experience with amps and indeed said it best:
http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/

Regardless, I've worked on, built, or modded/repaired em all... total PCB with pots/jacks attached to the board does not make for reliability since the physical interaction with these components is bad for any electronic connection over time... BUT, as Mark and MOST experienced builders will tell you, it doesn't matter if its PTP, Eyelet, or PCB - they will all sound identical (taking tolerance variations into consideration).

[Scottone]

Originally Posted by fauxsuper

The concept that solid state, PCB amps, or modeling amps are "inferior" to hand wired amps is a cliche, and like all such concepts, does have some basis in fact. I'd bet that most of us, if given a list of amps to choose from with only the above four construction methods listed, with no more information given would take the hand wired amp most every time.
.

Not me, I'd buy the one that sound the best.

A properly designed and executed PCB will sound at least as good as the equivalent circuit wired on a tag board or point-to-point (assuming identical parts quality, tubes, etc). Will probably be quieter too.

Most small builders don't have the resources available to go the PCB route, so it's easier to stick to the other methods.

P.S. Some of the noisiest amps I've ever played had the neatest wiring jobs.

[rhinocaster]

I think that PCB can sound great. I just don't want it.

I want someone with a soldering iron and a plan to build my amp. But I have to say:

I like carburetors more than fuel injection

I like leather more than vinyl

I like nitro more than poly

I like wood more than plastic

I like wires more than traces

I like analog more than digital

I like tubes more than transistors

Having said that, I like BB Kings tone


I guess I just like what I like!

[fauxsuper]

Originally Posted by mofugly13

Wow, point to point really looks like a troubleshooting nightmare. So, in the end, a properly done PCB with a good board is just as good, and easier to fix/mod?

One day soon, I want to build meself a nice tube amp, just gotta figure out which one to clone.

If you plan on building an amp, making a printed circuit board (much less a "properly designed" one) is not going to be something a do-it-yourself person is going to do. There are a lot of great amps that have PCB boards. Boogies and THD's come to mind. But I don't think they'll be easy to "clone" unless there's someone out there sellling PCB boards with all the components attached.

Most PTP amps are NOT troubleshooting nightmares, as the majority are usually simple designs with few parts. The things that have went wrong on the ones I've owned have all been stuff I've been able to repair myself.

In most cases, in my opinion, PCB board amps will be more difficult to repair and mod by the average person, than hand wired ones.

Most of the amps that are good candidates for cloning are going to be ones that will have a hand wired circuit board of some sort.

Hope that's helpful information. Or were you just trying to start a philisophical flame war?

[teleamp]

Originally Posted by Scottone

....P.S. Some of the noisiest amps I've ever played had the neatest wiring jobs.....

This can be very true, there are a lot of people that think "lead dress" that is not perfectly asthetic is bad. "Lead dress" is not about looks, but rather rules of wire routing to avoid cross-capacitance, parasitic oscillation and other unwanted noises. Proper lead dress that also looks good is a craft within itself.

MikeY