Two amps for stereo effects

uniphasian · November 5th, 2007, 01:48 PM

I'm new to the forum, so excuse me if this is another "here-we-go-again" thread.

When setting up two amps to run stereo effects, is it best to have the two amps voices similarly? Or can you run stereo effects through two completely different sounding amps?

I'd like to have two different sounding amps for versatililty's sake, but also want to be able to ping-pong and send dry/effects signals to each amp.

Thanks in advance.

photoweborama · November 6th, 2007, 12:50 AM

It depends on the effect you are using.

When I use a delay in stereo, I use one amp for a dry signal, and the other for the delay. Then I only use overdrive pedals so I can get a similar sound through both amps. I found that for the delay signal, doing it this way, they can be different amps and still sound really good.

I think if you were doing chorus or a similar effect, you would want them to be both the same amps.

64Strat · November 6th, 2007, 07:24 AM

currently I run a dry half stack with two wet smaller amps, not true stereo though.

The signal chain is instrument to a rack mount tuner first, then back to the pedal board for the front end pedals, the wah, boost and distortion pedals and then into the half stack input. Between the amp head and 4x12 cab I have an attenuator that I take low level signal from and route it through the rack to a BBE sonic maximizer and then back out to the rest of the pedal board for delay, chorus, flanger, phaser and this then feeds back to a Lexicon reverb and there I split the signal to the two smaller amps inputs, one on either side of the half stack. Set the volumes on the amps for a nice blend of wet to dry and it gets very nice! It sounds big even when it's not loud. With the current setup, there is always some reverb on the wet side but I don't use it very heavily. When the delay is kicked in, it accentuates the reverb real nice. When I kick in boost and distortion, the half stack "wakes up" and dominates the mix but the tone character is passed on to the 2 smaller amps with whatever wet flavor I have them doing. Since chorus, flanger and phaser are only on the wet side, this could be an issue depending on what you're trying to accomplish.

I've been using mismatched amps like old Marshall half stacks for the dry center and then like Fender Vibroluxes on either side for the wet channel. A pair of Deluxe Reverbs on either side would be great too, I just haven't gotten around to trying those yet. I also have a Laney 1x12 combo that works in there too. I know it sounds complicated but there are 8 signal cables, two small amps, one medium sized amp, a rack and a pedal board. Not too difficult to manage and if anything should fail, you have enough gear to adapt and keep going. I've also been thinking about adding ABY switching.

Could this rig be gigged? yeah, but it is more stuff to hump. Is it as simple as a one amp setup, no. But I think the tradeoff is worth it, once you hear how good it sounds and I think it is useful for a one guitar band that plays larger gigs that needs a big guitar sound. I find it rather humorous that all the players that have tried my setup all experiment with their own version of it after they hear it.

Keep experimenting and find the setup that fits your needs for the sound you want, this is the fun part of it and one of the three things that has to be there for good tone. Fingers, guitar and amp. you need all three,

captain gorgeous · November 6th, 2007, 07:33 AM

i used very different amps with different effects. that's just me though.

Pesty · November 6th, 2007, 08:43 AM

If you're gigging with them, and planning on having the sound guy pan one full left and one full right, it'll be best to use the same type of amp. Then again, you could end up with something you like better if you don't.

64Strat, that's a heck of a lotta gear. I'm envious of it, but I don't think I could handle hauling that around. Do you ever play through a PA system with that setup? How would you get the sound tech to mic that? Would you get all three mic'd and then work with the tech to balance it?

64Strat · November 6th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pesty

If you're gigging with them, and planning on having the sound guy pan one full left and one full right, it'll be best to use the same type of amp. Then again, you could end up with something you like better if you don't.

64Strat, that's a heck of a lotta gear. I'm envious of it, but I don't think I could handle hauling that around. Do you ever play through a PA system with that setup? How would you get the sound tech to mic that? Would you get all three mic'd and then work with the tech to balance it?

yep, that's alot to move around compared to a single amp but if you don't need to move it very often, it's not too bad. If it does need to be frequent, getting another body to help is always nice. Mic'ing for the PA is easy, one on the 4x12 and one on one of the small amps. Mix to taste. One of the issues is throttling it back and not letting the attenuator kill the tone and dynamics. This setup loves to "eat"! hehe....!

uniphasian · November 6th, 2007, 10:43 AM

When you send the signal to the wet channel amps, which inputs do you use? The high gain input on the front panel of the Vibrolux or the effects/reverb return on the back panel?

Paul in Colorado · November 6th, 2007, 11:36 AM

I do something a little different. I run the signal from my guitar into Input 1 of my Vox AC-15. Then I run a cable from Input 2, to a Roland Space Echo and the wet output from it into a Deluxe Reverb. Yum!

My other option is a Rivera S120-210 which is a stereo amp. I'll put a multi effects device in the effects loop for phase, chorus, delay and/or reverb. Sometimes I'll sit another amp on top of it for a "dry" tone.

64Strat · November 6th, 2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniphasian

When you send the signal to the wet channel amps, which inputs do you use? The high gain input on the front panel of the Vibrolux or the effects/reverb return on the back panel?

I've tried the various inputs on the front panel, not a big difference imo. Never tried the return on the back panel.

e-merlin · November 6th, 2007, 01:51 PM

Well, I just play at home for my own amusement, so don't take my word as gospel, but, IMO, effects channels should sound like the main guitar tone.

When I'm using effects, I run my main amp (Peavey VTM 60) dry. Then I run a cable from the preamp out to my effects unit (Peavey TubeFex). I have a stereo power amp for the effects. All three channels run through two side by side 412 stereo cabs. The effects channels run through the two outside speakers of their respective cabs. The VTM 60 runs through the inside pair of each cab. That way, all three channels sound as close as possible. A diagram of my speaker setup would look like this:

WDDW
WDDW

I'm sure this could be scaled down for gigging, and I know a few guys gigging with similar setups.

telel6s · November 6th, 2007, 04:45 PM

Interesting thread.

I just picked up a Line6 Roto Machine (Leslie sim) and am going to play around with it's stereo outputs using some combination of a SF Princeton, SF Super Reverb, and/or a Carmen Ghia.

The Roto Machine also has stereo inputs and I'm using a DigiTech delay with stereo outs. Some rainy weekend afternoon this winter I'm going to do me a bunch of plugging in and out with the various combinations.

I don't if I'll come up with something worth the trouble of setting up at a gig (although really it would just be one extra amp), but it should make for some fun sounds in the house. I've played around with the delay's stereo outs and it makes for some cool effects when you're situated to hear the stereo separation but I didn't think it would be worth it when mixed in with a full band. I'm wondering if the Leslie effect splitting the rotors might be more worthwhile. Should be interested to find out.

giginthesky · November 6th, 2007, 05:32 PM

for a stereo delay, i like to have the amps sound the same. most other times i like them to sound a little different.

November 5th, 2007, 01:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
uniphasian Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, CO Age: 48 Posts: 144	Two amps for stereo effects I'm new to the forum, so excuse me if this is another "here-we-go-again" thread. When setting up two amps to run stereo effects, is it best to have the two amps voices similarly? Or can you run stereo effects through two completely different sounding amps? I'd like to have two different sounding amps for versatililty's sake, but also want to be able to ping-pong and send dry/effects signals to each amp. Thanks in advance. __________________ - Uni

November 6th, 2007, 12:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
photoweborama Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA Age: 50 Posts: 1,460 15 Photos	It depends on the effect you are using. When I use a delay in stereo, I use one amp for a dry signal, and the other for the delay. Then I only use overdrive pedals so I can get a similar sound through both amps. I found that for the delay signal, doing it this way, they can be different amps and still sound really good. I think if you were doing chorus or a similar effect, you would want them to be both the same amps. __________________ Best guitar photos on the net! photoweborama.com!

November 6th, 2007, 07:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
captain gorgeous Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Angel, North London Posts: 1,884 38 Photos	i used very different amps with different effects. that's just me though. __________________ "What is it with chimpanzees and that middle parting? It's so 1920s." www.myspace.com/daddylonglegsuk http://www.myspace.com/thetacticians

November 6th, 2007, 10:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
uniphasian Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Denver, CO Age: 48 Posts: 144	When you send the signal to the wet channel amps, which inputs do you use? The high gain input on the front panel of the Vibrolux or the effects/reverb return on the back panel? __________________ - Uni

November 6th, 2007, 04:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
telel6s Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,171 80 Photos	Interesting thread. I just picked up a Line6 Roto Machine (Leslie sim) and am going to play around with it's stereo outputs using some combination of a SF Princeton, SF Super Reverb, and/or a Carmen Ghia. The Roto Machine also has stereo inputs and I'm using a DigiTech delay with stereo outs. Some rainy weekend afternoon this winter I'm going to do me a bunch of plugging in and out with the various combinations. I don't if I'll come up with something worth the trouble of setting up at a gig (although really it would just be one extra amp), but it should make for some fun sounds in the house. I've played around with the delay's stereo outs and it makes for some cool effects when you're situated to hear the stereo separation but I didn't think it would be worth it when mixed in with a full band. I'm wondering if the Leslie effect splitting the rotors might be more worthwhile. Should be interested to find out. __________________ Mama always said, "A little tone is good for the soul."

November 6th, 2007, 07:24 AM	#3 (permalink)
64Strat Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 635 43 Photos	currently I run a dry half stack with two wet smaller amps, not true stereo though. The signal chain is instrument to a rack mount tuner first, then back to the pedal board for the front end pedals, the wah, boost and distortion pedals and then into the half stack input. Between the amp head and 4x12 cab I have an attenuator that I take low level signal from and route it through the rack to a BBE sonic maximizer and then back out to the rest of the pedal board for delay, chorus, flanger, phaser and this then feeds back to a Lexicon reverb and there I split the signal to the two smaller amps inputs, one on either side of the half stack. Set the volumes on the amps for a nice blend of wet to dry and it gets very nice! It sounds big even when it's not loud. With the current setup, there is always some reverb on the wet side but I don't use it very heavily. When the delay is kicked in, it accentuates the reverb real nice. When I kick in boost and distortion, the half stack "wakes up" and dominates the mix but the tone character is passed on to the 2 smaller amps with whatever wet flavor I have them doing. Since chorus, flanger and phaser are only on the wet side, this could be an issue depending on what you're trying to accomplish. I've been using mismatched amps like old Marshall half stacks for the dry center and then like Fender Vibroluxes on either side for the wet channel. A pair of Deluxe Reverbs on either side would be great too, I just haven't gotten around to trying those yet. I also have a Laney 1x12 combo that works in there too. I know it sounds complicated but there are 8 signal cables, two small amps, one medium sized amp, a rack and a pedal board. Not too difficult to manage and if anything should fail, you have enough gear to adapt and keep going. I've also been thinking about adding ABY switching. Could this rig be gigged? yeah, but it is more stuff to hump. Is it as simple as a one amp setup, no. But I think the tradeoff is worth it, once you hear how good it sounds and I think it is useful for a one guitar band that plays larger gigs that needs a big guitar sound. I find it rather humorous that all the players that have tried my setup all experiment with their own version of it after they hear it. Keep experimenting and find the setup that fits your needs for the sound you want, this is the fun part of it and one of the three things that has to be there for good tone. Fingers, guitar and amp. you need all three,

November 6th, 2007, 08:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Pesty Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manitoba Canada Posts: 305	If you're gigging with them, and planning on having the sound guy pan one full left and one full right, it'll be best to use the same type of amp. Then again, you could end up with something you like better if you don't. 64Strat, that's a heck of a lotta gear. I'm envious of it, but I don't think I could handle hauling that around. Do you ever play through a PA system with that setup? How would you get the sound tech to mic that? Would you get all three mic'd and then work with the tech to balance it?

November 6th, 2007, 11:36 AM	#8 (permalink)
Paul in Colorado Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fort Collins, CO Age: 55 Posts: 4,201 3 Photos	I do something a little different. I run the signal from my guitar into Input 1 of my Vox AC-15. Then I run a cable from Input 2, to a Roland Space Echo and the wet output from it into a Deluxe Reverb. Yum! My other option is a Rivera S120-210 which is a stereo amp. I'll put a multi effects device in the effects loop for phase, chorus, delay and/or reverb. Sometimes I'll sit another amp on top of it for a "dry" tone.

November 6th, 2007, 05:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
giginthesky Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: south jersey Age: 36 Posts: 1,041 6 Photos	for a stereo delay, i like to have the amps sound the same. most other times i like them to sound a little different.