Tubes and treble?

[imwjl]

Hi,

Thanks again for all the learning thus far. I was able to play a Blues Junior that wasn't in a noisy shop today, and I notice that it and other tube amps needed to have higher volume to get trebles out of the tone and not so with my solid state amp I'm not so thrilled with. Does this mean a tube amp is not really the right thing for me in a small and quiet environment?

I am sure that some spark will be added with my Sonic Stomp, and I did not try the fat switch at the lower volumes and master settings. Two tube amps I tried seemed they had to be cranked a way to get some sparkle in the sound. Is playing with the guitar output down and amp cranked higher a solution?

Basically the tube amps I've tried (so far) have the tone I'd like, but at a volume my wife and neighbors may not like.

I am glad I did not buy an amp on a whim at one of the noisy stores. I'll sleep on it and tonight is my natural amplifier night (acoustic jam with my HD-28).

Thanks again.

[GUITARmole]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Hi,

Thanks again for all the learning thus far. I was able to play a Blues Junior that wasn't in a noisy shop today, and I notice that it and other tube amps needed to have higher volume to get trebles out of the tone and not so with my solid state amp I'm not so thrilled with. Does this mean a tube amp is not really the right thing for me in a small and quiet environment?

I am sure that some spark will be added with my Sonic Stomp, and I did not try the fat switch at the lower volumes and master settings. Two tube amps I tried seemed they had to be cranked a way to get some sparkle in the sound. Is playing with the guitar output down and amp cranked higher a solution?

Basically the tube amps I've tried (so far) have the tone I'd like, but at a volume my wife and neighbors may not like.

I am glad I did not buy an amp on a whim at one of the noisy stores. I'll sleep on it and tonight is my natural amplifier night (acoustic jam with my HD-28).

Thanks again.

Try a Twin Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, or Vox AC30 TB then report back to us about the lack of treble in tube amps, OK?

Normally treble at low volume isn't a problem...they don't start fattening up until you crank them.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by GUITARmole

Try a Twin Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, or Vox AC30 TB then report back to us about the lack of treble in tube amps, OK?

Normally treble at low volume isn't a problem...they don't start fattening up until you crank them.

I have and that's what started this quest, but those amps are too big as far as I can see. Are you saying they will sound better at low volumes than the smaller amps?

My Tele playing is private and not beyond friends or the neighborhood and there is a PA system or house system when I play in public with my bluegrass associates and I guess my HD-28 could be called a natural amplifier.

I guess it's that "fattening up" as you put it - some sparkle my cheap SS amp doesn't have. My logic has been that getting the reverb built in is probably better than a smaller amp with a solid state pedal, and maybe more cost effective.

I learned there is another shop in the area where the owner builds amps, fixes, and sells used ones and I'll try to get there as well as a Vox dealer that's not noisey like the Guitar Center.

Thanks.

[PRNDL]

>> tube amps needed to have higher volume to get trebles out

There may be several causes to consider:

Speakers are the first place to look. Stock speakers usually lack in tone, especially at low volume. This is particularly true of ceramics. A good alnico (or high quality ceramic) may be just what you need.

Tube amps do sound best when turned up. It has something to do with resistance. This means it is better to get a very low power amp and crank it.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by PRNDL

Tube amps do sound best when turned up. It has something to do with resistance. This means it is better to get a very low power amp and crank it.

Interesting, but sure makes sense. I have not seem the smallest amps have reverb built in though and have had many recommendations to get it built into the amp and not a pedal. I've tried out effects pedals and boards, but pretty much like clean sound so ignored them. I supposed a pedal with reverb and smaller amp are probably a similar price.

It is looking like there might not be a one tube amp that bridges playing alone at home (read quiet) and joining the neighbor with drums.

Thanks.

[11 Gauge]

Many tube amps sound kinda flat at low volumes, because they are way down in the linear range of operation at that point.

As the volume is increased, all of the dynamics come into play - resistance, conductance, capacitance, more voltage, more current. The way the guitar signal gets modified by the changes in impedance alone between gain stages has a lot to do with it.

The speaker is critical. A good one has to be moving a certain amount of air to work it's magic, IMO.

The best tube amps that I've heard at manageable volumes tend to be those with a single 6V6 or EL84, through a speaker that sounds good even with that low amount of power. But even those can get quite loud, especially if you put it through a very efficient 12". A bump above those would be a Princeton Reverb or Tweed Deluxe. The Deluxe especially has a cathode biased power section, which makes it sound softer to my ear when it's turned up.

It sounds like you need to seek out a Champ or similar amp. You may not be happy with the stock 8" - an easy remedy would be to plug into a compact cabinet with a 12".

[graphs]

Originally Posted by imwjl

It is looking like there might not be a one tube amp that bridges playing alone at home (read quiet) and joining the neighbor with drums.

a Blues Jr. should fill this niche...and should provide more than enough highs, even at low volume. you could always get one and try upgrading the speaker. worst case is that you don't like it and sell it...

and hey, some people actually just prefer the sound of SS amps...maybe a small tube combo isn't for you!

[emu!]

My small tube amps are VERY directive with the treble. If I sit directly in front of the speaker, the treble is more than enough, but if I sit to the side of the speaker, I find too much mush. Don't know if this is a tube thing or not, but give it a try. Point the speaker directly at ear level when playing at low volumes.