Pro Jr vs Classic 20

ravindave_3600 · September 2nd, 2007, 07:40 PM

I'm looking for a small amp for rehearsing with, and have been thinking about the Pro Jr, the Classic 20, or the Crate Palomino 16 (or 1512). They all do a lot of the same things, and people have good opinions of all. My Q is, can the Pr or Classic take a 12" speaker? I really don't like the little boxy sounds 10"ers get!

Daddy Elmis · September 2nd, 2007, 07:54 PM

There's an aftermarket upgrade for the PJ (called the pro senior) that is a new tweed cab for the chassis that takes a 12". Unfortunately, the cab (without speaker) is $275 (more than I paid for PJ). By the time you add a decent 12", you're just about in DRRI land - which kind of kills the value proposition for a PJ.

A 12" won't fit in the PJ's stock cab, so going with an external cab is probably the cheapest, fastest way to get to a 12".

11 Gauge · September 2nd, 2007, 09:09 PM

I'd do the cab thing as well.

It makes the most sense without having to go w/a special enclosure for any of those amps.

And for those rare times when the extra portability and light weight is an issue, you can just grab one of those little suckers and go.

Anything over 4-5 watts can drive a 12".

studio1087 · September 2nd, 2007, 11:56 PM

Have you played your favorite guitar with a Pro Junior? You should try it. For smaller amps, I have a Pro Junior, 70's Silverface Champ and an Epi Valve Junior head with a 1-12 Lopo Closed back cab.

The Pro Junior is my favorite. It's not boxy. Champs fans will call it sacrilege but if I could only keep one of my lower power amps, the Champ and Epi would go out the door.

JohnnyCrash · September 3rd, 2007, 12:09 AM

I'd personally go with the Peavey or the Crate.

Also, there are some very good 10"s out there, so don't be too quick to dismiss a 10"

ruger9 · September 3rd, 2007, 08:25 AM

The little Peavey sounds alot bigger than it looks. It sounds good with the stock speaker, I upgraded mine with a Weber Silver 10 and it's awesome- not boxy AT ALL. It's one of my amps I doubt I'll ever sell.

11 Gauge · September 3rd, 2007, 05:30 PM

I'd say Classic 20 myself, but that's just because it is my absolute fave of all of the Peavey Classics.

Not much clean headroom, but when it starts to break up it just sounds beautiful.

It also doesn't have any garbage in the circuit like most of the other models do.

And a small fact that most folks don't know - the C20 has DC fils on the preamp tubes. This was back when it was almost unheard of with a little amp like this.

Yeah - there are plenty of great sounding 10s out there (I love a 2X10 setup). The only drawback is that most of these mini amps have tiny cabs, and even a good 10 will typically sound less awesome than if put in a bigger box - that's why I recommend a speaker cab.

ravindave_3600 · September 3rd, 2007, 07:02 PM

Thanks for the tips, guys. I went out today and - of course - couldn't find either the PJ or the C20. I did play and like both the Blues Jr and the Crate Palomino 16 though, each in its own way.

ruger9 · September 3rd, 2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

And a small fact that most folks don't know - the C20 has DC fils on the preamp tubes. This was back when it was almost unheard of with a little amp like this.

11GAUGE:
what does this mean as far as tone goes?

DAVE:
You won't find a C20 except used, it was discontinued awhile ago. They're going for about $275 on ebay these days. My favorite of the Classic series as well.

JohnnyCrash · September 3rd, 2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruger9

11GAUGE:
what does this mean as far as tone goes?

It doesn't really do anything for tone, but it does help with noise (especially as the amp is cranked).

It reduces noise to have DC filaments on the most sensitive part of the circuit - the preamp.

AC hums... giving the 6.3 volts required to the tubes heater filament as DC instead of AC means less noise/hum into the preamp circuit.

ruger9 · September 4th, 2007, 05:32 AM

Thanks, JC. learnin' a little bit at a time about this amp stuff... I WILL build one someday...

11 Gauge · September 4th, 2007, 06:09 AM

If you've had a few noisy tube amps, DC filaments can be a wonderful thing.

Not really an issue on an amp with a very clean tone (very low preamp gain design), or one with really good lead dress (how the wires are laid out inside the amp).

Being that the C20 is both mass produced and PC board construction, the DC filaments are great. I believe that Epi had to modify the Valve Jr. for the same thing, because of excessive hum.

I like to think that the DC fils are just another indicator of smart design, and that Peavey was way ahead of the competition with their small tube amp design, over a decade ago!

Why they don't re-release the C20 is beyond me, with all the rage being these little 18 watt wonders.

I guess they hope to achieve something similar with the Windsor Studio.

Fourth Feline · September 4th, 2007, 06:40 AM

I have had no experience of a small fender, but have been very happy with my Peavey 'Classic 20'.

The headroom an definition improved even more when I fitted a 10" Jensen ceramic speaker and differently voiced EL84s from 'Watford Valves' here in the U.K.

It looks even better if you unscrew the 'Peavey' logo from the front - and just have that lovely tweed speaker grille.

The only minor downside, is that the valves are fully exposed at the rear, so be very careful when putting the plug and mains lead back after playing - and check they are securely seated before switching on e.t.c

F.F.

shakedancer · September 4th, 2007, 08:16 AM

I have an older Tweed PJ. It sounds boxy and harsh. Not an amp I can love for guitar. In fact I will never use it for guitar again. I'll keep it for harp playing. I wouldn't spend any more money on this amp. Like someone said above, move into a DRRI before you do that.

eddiewagner · September 4th, 2007, 08:21 AM

i had a pro jr. once. it´s quite a good amp, but i felt i would not "fill the room". if you want to mike it great.

11 Gauge · September 4th, 2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakedancer

I have an older Tweed PJ. It sounds boxy and harsh. Not an amp I can love for guitar. In fact I will never use it for guitar again. I'll keep it for harp playing. I wouldn't spend any more money on this amp. Like someone said above, move into a DRRI before you do that.

This has been my experiences as well, and I've tried many PJs and BJs since Fender first rolled them out.

The problem with many of the modern small tube amps is that there is simply too much circuitry. This is why most will favor the Champ. I think that the Peavey C20 is the best blend of the old and the new - a couple more modest gain stages, and a low-watt push pull design that still feels a little loose, and not boxy or boingy like the PJ and BJ.

September 2nd, 2007, 07:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 889	Pro Jr vs Classic 20 I'm looking for a small amp for rehearsing with, and have been thinking about the Pro Jr, the Classic 20, or the Crate Palomino 16 (or 1512). They all do a lot of the same things, and people have good opinions of all. My Q is, can the Pr or Classic take a 12" speaker? I really don't like the little boxy sounds 10"ers get! __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.myspace.com/brightredtie

September 2nd, 2007, 07:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Daddy Elmis Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: USA Posts: 959	There's an aftermarket upgrade for the PJ (called the pro senior) that is a new tweed cab for the chassis that takes a 12". Unfortunately, the cab (without speaker) is $275 (more than I paid for PJ). By the time you add a decent 12", you're just about in DRRI land - which kind of kills the value proposition for a PJ. A 12" won't fit in the PJ's stock cab, so going with an external cab is probably the cheapest, fastest way to get to a 12". __________________ Elwood: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, we're sure glad to be here in Cocomo tonight. We're the Good Ole' Blues Brothers Boys Band from Chicago. I sure hope you like our show. I'm Elwood, this here's my brother Jake.

September 2nd, 2007, 09:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
11 Gauge Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The East Coast Posts: 2,761 10 Photos	I'd do the cab thing as well. It makes the most sense without having to go w/a special enclosure for any of those amps. And for those rare times when the extra portability and light weight is an issue, you can just grab one of those little suckers and go. Anything over 4-5 watts can drive a 12". __________________

September 2nd, 2007, 11:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
studio1087 Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2003 Location: Near Milwaukee Age: 44 Posts: 3,462 36 Photos	Have you played your favorite guitar with a Pro Junior? You should try it. For smaller amps, I have a Pro Junior, 70's Silverface Champ and an Epi Valve Junior head with a 1-12 Lopo Closed back cab. The Pro Junior is my favorite. It's not boxy. Champs fans will call it sacrilege but if I could only keep one of my lower power amps, the Champ and Epi would go out the door. __________________ JLG Carry On

September 3rd, 2007, 08:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
ruger9 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hackettstown, NJ Posts: 1,591	The little Peavey sounds alot bigger than it looks. It sounds good with the stock speaker, I upgraded mine with a Weber Silver 10 and it's awesome- not boxy AT ALL. It's one of my amps I doubt I'll ever sell. __________________ "I've got callouses, from all those nights, spent playin' a Telecaster, 'till my fingers bled Bud Light" - Travis Tritt

September 3rd, 2007, 12:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	I'd personally go with the Peavey or the Crate. Also, there are some very good 10"s out there, so don't be too quick to dismiss a 10"

September 3rd, 2007, 05:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
11 Gauge Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The East Coast Posts: 2,761 10 Photos	I'd say Classic 20 myself, but that's just because it is my absolute fave of all of the Peavey Classics. Not much clean headroom, but when it starts to break up it just sounds beautiful. It also doesn't have any garbage in the circuit like most of the other models do. And a small fact that most folks don't know - the C20 has DC fils on the preamp tubes. This was back when it was almost unheard of with a little amp like this. Yeah - there are plenty of great sounding 10s out there (I love a 2X10 setup). The only drawback is that most of these mini amps have tiny cabs, and even a good 10 will typically sound less awesome than if put in a bigger box - that's why I recommend a speaker cab. __________________

September 3rd, 2007, 07:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
ravindave_3600 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boise, USA Posts: 889	Thanks for the tips, guys. I went out today and - of course - couldn't find either the PJ or the C20. I did play and like both the Blues Jr and the Crate Palomino 16 though, each in its own way. __________________ Want my guitar to sound like BBQ tastes! check out the band at http://www.myspace.com/brightredtie

September 4th, 2007, 05:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
ruger9 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hackettstown, NJ Posts: 1,591	Thanks, JC. learnin' a little bit at a time about this amp stuff... I WILL build one someday... __________________ "I've got callouses, from all those nights, spent playin' a Telecaster, 'till my fingers bled Bud Light" - Travis Tritt

September 4th, 2007, 06:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
11 Gauge Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The East Coast Posts: 2,761 10 Photos	If you've had a few noisy tube amps, DC filaments can be a wonderful thing. Not really an issue on an amp with a very clean tone (very low preamp gain design), or one with really good lead dress (how the wires are laid out inside the amp). Being that the C20 is both mass produced and PC board construction, the DC filaments are great. I believe that Epi had to modify the Valve Jr. for the same thing, because of excessive hum. I like to think that the DC fils are just another indicator of smart design, and that Peavey was way ahead of the competition with their small tube amp design, over a decade ago! Why they don't re-release the C20 is beyond me, with all the rage being these little 18 watt wonders. I guess they hope to achieve something similar with the Windsor Studio. __________________

September 4th, 2007, 06:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Fourth Feline Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Yorkshire, England. Age: 49 Posts: 669	I have had no experience of a small fender, but have been very happy with my Peavey 'Classic 20'. The headroom an definition improved even more when I fitted a 10" Jensen ceramic speaker and differently voiced EL84s from 'Watford Valves' here in the U.K. It looks even better if you unscrew the 'Peavey' logo from the front - and just have that lovely tweed speaker grille. The only minor downside, is that the valves are fully exposed at the rear, so be very careful when putting the plug and mains lead back after playing - and check they are securely seated before switching on e.t.c F.F. __________________ " The blues is the truth : happy or sad - just the truth "

September 4th, 2007, 08:16 AM	#14 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	I have an older Tweed PJ. It sounds boxy and harsh. Not an amp I can love for guitar. In fact I will never use it for guitar again. I'll keep it for harp playing. I wouldn't spend any more money on this amp. Like someone said above, move into a DRRI before you do that. __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE

September 4th, 2007, 08:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
eddiewagner Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ROCK!linghausen/germany Age: 49 Posts: 3,633 27 Photos	i had a pro jr. once. it´s quite a good amp, but i felt i would not "fill the room". if you want to mike it great. __________________ My Drum/Guitar-Duo: www.myspace.com/captaintwangandhisrhythmcat