More important tonally: Power tubes or preamp tubes

TelZilla · August 1st, 2007, 08:10 AM

I'm sure this is on here, but I searched for 5 minutes and I have some actual work to get done so here goes:

Power tubes are more important to an amp's tone than preamp, right?

Like, if I was only going to upgrade one section of a BFDR, I'd get more impact from upgrading the power section (2 6v6's) than the preamp/effects (4 12AX7Bs, 2 12AT7s) or the recto (WZ34)?

Agreed?

6942 · August 1st, 2007, 08:40 AM

I feel the pre-amp tube gives you MOST of what you hear, more so than the power tube.

Steve

purpletele · August 1st, 2007, 10:32 AM

I don't think there's an easy answer to this question. They both affect the tone of the amp. It might be easier to say, "What is it about your amps tone you want to change?" It could come down to a resister, or SS rectifier vs tube. Good tubes vs. crappy tubes. and so on, and on... and on....

94bamf · August 1st, 2007, 11:15 AM

I think damn near anybody can hear a difference between a really great preamp tube and a really bad preamp tube...

I don't think so with power amp tubes, especially if you are not turning it up loud enough to get into power amp tube breakup..

I would always do preamp tubes first..

jh45gun · August 1st, 2007, 11:23 AM

They all may shape the tone along with the other parts resistors/ caps ect but I would think the preamp tubes would have the most to do with it. Though that is a guess on my part. I know I found out on my Silvertone 1472 that different output tubes can make a difference in how much or little the amp breaks up when driven.

woodman · August 1st, 2007, 11:39 AM

in my experience, it's easy to hear the tone-shaping qualities of preamp tubes in your living room, but the impact of power tubes is best experienced at gig volume onstage, in the mix ...

Chris S. · August 1st, 2007, 01:11 PM

Just for want of an analogy, IMO power tubes are the cake, and pre-amp tubes are the icing (frosting).

But that's just my opinion. What do YOU think? ;-) CS

Opaltone · August 1st, 2007, 02:09 PM

Preamp tubes? Power tubes? Depends entirely on which amp, how the amp is being used, and whose taste is involved in the selection process. If you're playing at "bedroom volume" then you're likely to get better results with preamp tubes. Gig volume, go for the power tubes.

My answer: optimize the entire set of amp tubes to my playing style/taste/volume. And don't forget the rectifier tube, if you've got one.

- Thom

Tim Swartz · August 1st, 2007, 02:17 PM

The input tube creates the initial signal that get amplified over and over at each stage of the amp, thus this tube plays the most critical role.

aunchaki · August 1st, 2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodman

in my experience, it's easy to hear the tone-shaping qualities of preamp tubes in your living room, but the impact of power tubes is best experienced at gig volume onstage, in the mix ...

+1

For my use (home, practice, very small venue) I think it's definitely the preamp tubes, but I like what woodman has to say here. At blistering stage volumes, the power tubes probably take center stage, tone-wise.

TelZilla · August 1st, 2007, 02:37 PM

Well, Bob from Eurotubes agrees with Woodman, Aunchaki et. al.:

"You will likely notice more character from preamp tubes at lower volumes, while more moderate to higher volume settings will open up the power tubes"

Also, he suggested a full retube (which is probably what I'll do anyway). Are you as shocked as me?

Honestly, he's probably right, and no self respecting bidnessman would have done otherwise.

TexGoneNW · August 1st, 2007, 10:56 PM

It's all interactive.

jh45gun · August 1st, 2007, 11:18 PM

In my case my stage volume is coming from the Preamp section as I have a Preamp line out modded on my Silvertone 1472. That line out is run to the lower inpedence input jack of a Larger SS Bass Head into either my Kustom III or my Traynor Mono Block into a 2x12 cab and a PR 80 gives me my effects including reverb.

JohnnyCrash · August 2nd, 2007, 02:28 AM

You'll never get agreement in real life :)

IDK, my opinion is that it sort of depends on the amp AND the use.

A tweed/BF/SF Champ = preamp and power amp tubes equally important, rectifier doesn't matter.

A tweed/BF/SF Deluxe = preamp and power amp tubes may be equally important if you play very loudly.

Twins = power amp are important if low end and unmuddy mids are important.

Rectifiers = if you play near dimed volumes and you want more compression and sag, the rectifier tube is important.

As with tube amps, ALL tube sections are important - in my book (even reverb drivers)... while preamp tubes do a lot of heavy lifting with shaping and amplifying the initial input guitar signal, a power tube can affect response, bass, and volume of the end product as well.

Its all academic - if you're retubing because of poor sound - do them all. If you're doing it for slight taste differences, you can tailor the sounds by playing with either/both pre and power depending on what you're looking to do.

ac15 · August 3rd, 2007, 09:36 PM

My amp tech doesn't believe in changing preamp tubes unless they're microphonic or making other bad sounds. Dunno if I agree but I do know that they can last forever pretty much.

Scotland · August 4th, 2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris S.

Just for want of an analogy, IMO power tubes are the cake, and pre-amp tubes are the icing (frosting).

But that's just my opinion. What do YOU think? ;-) CS

So that's how you get such a fat sound Chris !

August 1st, 2007, 08:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
TelZilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleveburg, USA Age: 38 Posts: 1,706 6 Photos	More important tonally: Power tubes or preamp tubes I'm sure this is on here, but I searched for 5 minutes and I have some actual work to get done so here goes: Power tubes are more important to an amp's tone than preamp, right? Like, if I was only going to upgrade one section of a BFDR, I'd get more impact from upgrading the power section (2 6v6's) than the preamp/effects (4 12AX7Bs, 2 12AT7s) or the recto (WZ34)? Agreed? __________________ Thanks,Nick Go, cat, go!

August 1st, 2007, 10:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
purpletele Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Morgantown,WV Posts: 654 10 Photos	re I don't think there's an easy answer to this question. They both affect the tone of the amp. It might be easier to say, "What is it about your amps tone you want to change?" It could come down to a resister, or SS rectifier vs tube. Good tubes vs. crappy tubes. and so on, and on... and on....

August 1st, 2007, 11:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,572	in my experience, it's easy to hear the tone-shaping qualities of preamp tubes in your living room, but the impact of power tubes is best experienced at gig volume onstage, in the mix ... __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

August 1st, 2007, 01:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Chris S. Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Near TELE-Town (Wash. DC) Posts: 2,810 7 Photos	Piece o' cake. ;-) Just for want of an analogy, IMO power tubes are the cake, and pre-amp tubes are the icing (frosting). But that's just my opinion. What do YOU think? ;-) CS __________________ "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's depressing." – Tara, from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" "It was born at the junction of form and function." – Bill Kirchen, from "Hammer of the Honky-Tonk Gods"

August 1st, 2007, 02:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,775	The input tube creates the initial signal that get amplified over and over at each stage of the amp, thus this tube plays the most critical role. __________________

August 1st, 2007, 08:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
6942 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Western Maryland Posts: 1,428	I feel the pre-amp tube gives you MOST of what you hear, more so than the power tube. Steve

August 1st, 2007, 11:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
94bamf Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas City Age: 31 Posts: 161	I think damn near anybody can hear a difference between a really great preamp tube and a really bad preamp tube... I don't think so with power amp tubes, especially if you are not turning it up loud enough to get into power amp tube breakup.. I would always do preamp tubes first..

August 1st, 2007, 11:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 928	They all may shape the tone along with the other parts resistors/ caps ect but I would think the preamp tubes would have the most to do with it. Though that is a guess on my part. I know I found out on my Silvertone 1472 that different output tubes can make a difference in how much or little the amp breaks up when driven.

August 1st, 2007, 02:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
Opaltone Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 118	Preamp tubes? Power tubes? Depends entirely on which amp, how the amp is being used, and whose taste is involved in the selection process. If you're playing at "bedroom volume" then you're likely to get better results with preamp tubes. Gig volume, go for the power tubes. My answer: optimize the entire set of amp tubes to my playing style/taste/volume. And don't forget the rectifier tube, if you've got one. - Thom

August 1st, 2007, 02:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
TelZilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleveburg, USA Age: 38 Posts: 1,706 6 Photos	Well, Bob from Eurotubes agrees with Woodman, Aunchaki et. al.: "You will likely notice more character from preamp tubes at lower volumes, while more moderate to higher volume settings will open up the power tubes" Also, he suggested a full retube (which is probably what I'll do anyway). Are you as shocked as me? Honestly, he's probably right, and no self respecting bidnessman would have done otherwise. __________________ Thanks,Nick Go, cat, go!

August 1st, 2007, 10:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
TexGoneNW Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Victoria, TX Age: 50 Posts: 907 4 Photos	It's all interactive.

August 1st, 2007, 11:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
jh45gun Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 928	In my case my stage volume is coming from the Preamp section as I have a Preamp line out modded on my Silvertone 1472. That line out is run to the lower inpedence input jack of a Larger SS Bass Head into either my Kustom III or my Traynor Mono Block into a 2x12 cab and a PR 80 gives me my effects including reverb.

August 2nd, 2007, 02:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	You'll never get agreement in real life :) IDK, my opinion is that it sort of depends on the amp AND the use. A tweed/BF/SF Champ = preamp and power amp tubes equally important, rectifier doesn't matter. A tweed/BF/SF Deluxe = preamp and power amp tubes may be equally important if you play very loudly. Twins = power amp are important if low end and unmuddy mids are important. Rectifiers = if you play near dimed volumes and you want more compression and sag, the rectifier tube is important. As with tube amps, ALL tube sections are important - in my book (even reverb drivers)... while preamp tubes do a lot of heavy lifting with shaping and amplifying the initial input guitar signal, a power tube can affect response, bass, and volume of the end product as well. Its all academic - if you're retubing because of poor sound - do them all. If you're doing it for slight taste differences, you can tailor the sounds by playing with either/both pre and power depending on what you're looking to do.

August 3rd, 2007, 09:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
ac15 Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2005 Location: CHICAGO, IL. Posts: 511	My amp tech doesn't believe in changing preamp tubes unless they're microphonic or making other bad sounds. Dunno if I agree but I do know that they can last forever pretty much.