30w + 30w = 60w ?

Scotland · October 18th, 2003, 07:40 PM

I used my Peavey classic 30 tonight for the first time. It was a small venue so I used it instead of my Twin. The sound blew me away, I mean really smacked me on the mouth ! The amp was set at volume 8 and the tubes were pumping red hot, the sound was incredible. Question now....I really want to keep that sound but most of our gigs would need approx. 50w tube power, if I get another Peavey C 30 and run them together in a stereo configuration through my pedals, will it be a lot louder than just the one ? I.E. equivalent say to a 50/60w amp ?

telemann51 · October 18th, 2003, 07:57 PM

You've got two 12" speakers moving air. You've got the opportunity to spread out your sound on the stage. That said, I'd still mic the amp and run it through the PA if I needed more. That has worked incredibly well for me.

Scotland · October 19th, 2003, 04:41 AM

Yes but would it give me the same volume as a 50w ? Right now I can't get miked up as all the available mixer sockets are in use.

JWK · October 19th, 2003, 10:15 AM

Yes, you will double your wattage. Yes, it will be like having a 60 watt (if your classic 30 is *really* 30 watts) amp. Also, since you are doubling the speakers along with doubling the power, you will take full advantage of that power increase. The ability to spread/arrange the amps onstage increases the advantages that much more.

TheGoodTexan · October 19th, 2003, 01:04 PM

Some folks may think I'm crazy - but this is absolutely true. I've worked with my father for years, designing and building loudspeakers and home theaters. Dad's actually been in the home theater business since 1969.

There is a physical/mechanical phenominon known as "coupling". Basically it's what happens when two idetical speakers are moved away from each other on a linear plane. At a certian distance away from each other, the speakers will "couple" off of each other and become louder, and have much more bass response. Of course, both amps must be receiving the exact same mono signal. Because this has to do with phasing, when you're using a stereo chorus or delay, the effect is mostly lost.

There is a specific mathematical formula for finding the correct distance apart to set your amps, but you can just as easily find this out by playing a big clean open E chord and having a friend move one amp away from the other very slowly. Just let the chord ring out while your friend adjusts one of the two amps. You'll hear it when it happens. When you find this spot - get a tape measure and measure the distance between the center of each speaker cone from one amp to the other. This measurement is a constant for your two particular amps, so it will translate to any stage. I'm guessing it will be in the 5 to 6 foot range (just under 2 meters for our metric system friends).

For those of you that may doubt - I encourage you to try it. Also - look at any super high-end loud speakers for home theater use. Most of these companies have moved away from using larger low frequency drivers. They almost always will have two medium sized drivers...say in the 6" to 6 1/2" range, about a foot apart with a tweeter directly in the middle (there's a reason the tweeter is directly in the middle, but it's not applicable here).

This will not work if you're using two different amps.

Scotland · November 5th, 2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telemann51

You've got two 12" speakers moving air. You've got the opportunity to spread out your sound on the stage. That said, I'd still mic the amp and run it through the PA if I needed more. That has worked incredibly well for me.

Would you believe it? We have just bought ourselves a whole new P.A. and now I can mike up my classic 30. Bought myself a Sure SM57 to do the job. Will let you know how it turns out.

Ben Harmless · November 5th, 2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan

There is a physical/mechanical phenominon known as "coupling". Basically it's what happens when two idetical speakers are moved away from each other on a linear plane. At a certian distance away from each other, the speakers will "couple" off of each other and become louder, and have much more bass response. Of course, both amps must be receiving the exact same mono signal. Because this has to do with phasing, when you're using a stereo chorus or delay, the effect is mostly lost.

Ha! Let's seee LIne 6 model that!

I've been working live sound for clubs and outdoor events for almost a year now, and I'm only beginning to appriciate some of the amazing phenomenons that occur based on speaker placement, direction, size, and location. I also just managed to scrounge up a couple of speakers, so now I have a cabinet for my Marshall and a cabinet for my Reverend. Look out folks, it's the double Ben attack!

telemann51 · November 5th, 2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotland

Would you believe it? We have just bought ourselves a whole new P.A. and now I can mike up my classic 30. Bought myself a Sure SM57 to do the job. Will let you know how it turns out.

It will sound great. I couldn't believe how good it was out front with the guitar coming out of the mains instead of from a single point behind me. I used an SM57 as well. I put the mic right up against the grill cloth, about midway between the center and edge of the speaker cone.

Hucklebilly · November 5th, 2003, 04:48 PM

So I'm assuming that the coupling effect described by TheGoodTexan would occur with one amp and an extension cab, no?

Scotland · November 17th, 2003, 09:01 AM

That's all I can say about the sound !
Just got to get decent monitors now to appreciate it fully.

feojack · November 17th, 2003, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hucklebilly

So I'm assuming that the coupling effect described by TheGoodTexan would occur with one amp and an extension cab, no?

Yes I was wondering that too. I may be rather thick, but it wasn't clear to me either.
Cheers, feo

Scotland · November 18th, 2003, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feojack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hucklebilly

So I'm assuming that the coupling effect described by TheGoodTexan would occur with one amp and an extension cab, no?

Yes I was wondering that too. I may be rather thick, but it wasn't clear to me either.
Cheers, feo

Count me in on the thick club, I was wondereing the same thing. :?

TheGoodTexan · November 18th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotland

Quote:

Originally Posted by feojack

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hucklebilly

So I'm assuming that the coupling effect described by TheGoodTexan would occur with one amp and an extension cab, no?

Yes I was wondering that too. I may be rather thick, but it wasn't clear to me either.
Cheers, feo

Count me in on the thick club, I was wondereing the same thing. :?

Just noticed these replies/questions...

Coupling is actually easier to achieve with a combo and ext cab, IF the ext cab is identical in inside dimensions as the combo, and has the same speaker (including impedence) as the speaker in the combo.

It's easier this way because you're only working with one preamp/amp, insuring that both speakers are receiving the exact same signal at the exact same level.

Scotland · November 24th, 2003, 08:17 AM

Now all I have to do is find an extension cab for the C30....it's like looking for hen's teeth !

Ben Harmless · November 24th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotland

Now all I have to do is find an extension cab for the C30....it's like looking for hen's teeth !

You mean one that matches up nicely with the appearance? I don't think there is one. At least not an open-back 1x12. There's a closed-back 4x12 in black tweed, and an open-back 4x10 in regualr tweed, but no 1x12.

I'd go with Avatar for an open-back 1x12 if I were going to try to set up a coupling effect with a Classic 30.

Remember impedance. I seem to recall that running an extention cab along with the internal speaker of the Classic 30 is something of a chore.

Scotland · November 24th, 2003, 11:29 AM

The C30 is 16 ohm. Peavey used to make an ext. cab for them but don't now. I keep searching ebay for one but have not seen one yet.

KC · November 24th, 2003, 12:02 PM

why not just buy another C30? you could use it for an extension cab or just take a y-cord and run 'em both. That way if your amp goes South in the middle of a set you can just keep playing. It seems like they're going for as little as $200 on ebay and an extension cab isn't going to be much cheaper than that.

telemann51 · November 24th, 2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC

why not just buy another C30? you could use it for an extension cab or just take a y-cord and run 'em both. That way if your amp goes South in the middle of a set you can just keep playing.

That's the best idea I've heard in a while. If one amp craps out, use the other one to power both cabs. You'll never have to worry about amp failure.

Scotland · November 24th, 2003, 04:59 PM

As it turns out, an ext. cab for the c30 112e has turned up on ebay, if I get it then fine, if not, I'll go for another c30. Thanks guys.

11 Gauge · November 25th, 2003, 03:38 PM

actually there should be an external out plug on that C30. i think the O.T. tap for that one is actually 8 ohms...

i seem to remember reading a recommendation to grab an 8 ohm speaker for the C30 and run it off the external cab jack...

if you can find one, you may want to grab a Peavey Delta Blues 1X15. i've got one and that sucker moves some air - a very loud 30 watts, and fantastic with a Tele. You could then optimize your setup with the C30 tweaked just so, and the DB tweaked just so...

a used DB should be on par with the cost of a used C30...

Bob McLeod · November 25th, 2003, 05:15 PM

The C30 speaker out is 16 ohm. You need a 16 ohm speaker in the extension cab, just like the main speaker. Coupled together, the load is 8 ohms.

I've got the 112 E cab with a 16 ohm Celestion. Sounds great.

Bob

telemann51 · November 25th, 2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11 Gauge

actually there should be an external out plug on that C30. i think the O.T. tap for that one is actually 8 ohms...

i seem to remember reading a recommendation to grab an 8 ohm speaker for the C30 and run it off the external cab jack...

The jack on the ext out switches to the 8 ohm tap. That way it matches the impedance of the 16 ohm internal speaker and a 16 ohm external one wired in parallel.

If you use an 8 ohm speaker in the C30, you can't wire it the internal way. You have to plug it into the ext out and tape the ends of the internal wires.

11 Gauge · November 26th, 2003, 02:31 PM

i believe Steve Ahola at the Blue Guitar was the one who pointed this out. he's partial to some 8 ohm Celestion model in his.

thanx for the clarifications - yes, if you want to drop to 8 ohms you have to do it off the ext. jack only and tape off the leads for any internal speaker.

FWIW i tried a Weber VST 8 ohm off the ext. out, and didn't really notice a difference. maybe i'm going deaf...

or, you could buy a truckload of C30s off of ebay and run any impedance you want. as they blow up, send another soldier or 2 up to the frontline... if you can't have a mil-spec amp, then have a small army of cheap amps - the audience may even take it for part of your stage show.

October 18th, 2003, 07:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	30w + 30w = 60w ? I used my Peavey classic 30 tonight for the first time. It was a small venue so I used it instead of my Twin. The sound blew me away, I mean really smacked me on the mouth ! The amp was set at volume 8 and the tubes were pumping red hot, the sound was incredible. Question now....I really want to keep that sound but most of our gigs would need approx. 50w tube power, if I get another Peavey C 30 and run them together in a stereo configuration through my pedals, will it be a lot louder than just the one ? I.E. equivalent say to a 50/60w amp ? __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

October 18th, 2003, 07:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
telemann51 Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 525	It would actually be better. You've got two 12" speakers moving air. You've got the opportunity to spread out your sound on the stage. That said, I'd still mic the amp and run it through the PA if I needed more. That has worked incredibly well for me.

October 19th, 2003, 04:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	Right Yes but would it give me the same volume as a 50w ? Right now I can't get miked up as all the available mixer sockets are in use. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

October 19th, 2003, 10:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
JWK TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 91	The answer is yes Yes, you will double your wattage. Yes, it will be like having a 60 watt (if your classic 30 is really 30 watts) amp. Also, since you are doubling the speakers along with doubling the power, you will take full advantage of that power increase. The ability to spread/arrange the amps onstage increases the advantages that much more.

October 19th, 2003, 01:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
TheGoodTexan Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 35 Posts: 5,006 18 Photos	Coupling Some folks may think I'm crazy - but this is absolutely true. I've worked with my father for years, designing and building loudspeakers and home theaters. Dad's actually been in the home theater business since 1969. There is a physical/mechanical phenominon known as "coupling". Basically it's what happens when two idetical speakers are moved away from each other on a linear plane. At a certian distance away from each other, the speakers will "couple" off of each other and become louder, and have much more bass response. Of course, both amps must be receiving the exact same mono signal. Because this has to do with phasing, when you're using a stereo chorus or delay, the effect is mostly lost. There is a specific mathematical formula for finding the correct distance apart to set your amps, but you can just as easily find this out by playing a big clean open E chord and having a friend move one amp away from the other very slowly. Just let the chord ring out while your friend adjusts one of the two amps. You'll hear it when it happens. When you find this spot - get a tape measure and measure the distance between the center of each speaker cone from one amp to the other. This measurement is a constant for your two particular amps, so it will translate to any stage. I'm guessing it will be in the 5 to 6 foot range (just under 2 meters for our metric system friends). For those of you that may doubt - I encourage you to try it. Also - look at any super high-end loud speakers for home theater use. Most of these companies have moved away from using larger low frequency drivers. They almost always will have two medium sized drivers...say in the 6" to 6 1/2" range, about a foot apart with a tweeter directly in the middle (there's a reason the tweeter is directly in the middle, but it's not applicable here). This will not work if you're using two different amps.

November 5th, 2003, 04:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
Hucklebilly Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 784 2 Photos	Coupling effect So I'm assuming that the coupling effect described by TheGoodTexan would occur with one amp and an extension cab, no?

November 17th, 2003, 09:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	Fantastic That's all I can say about the sound ! Just got to get decent monitors now to appreciate it fully. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

November 24th, 2003, 08:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	Thanks Now all I have to do is find an extension cab for the C30....it's like looking for hen's teeth ! __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

November 24th, 2003, 11:29 AM	#16 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	Yep The C30 is 16 ohm. Peavey used to make an ext. cab for them but don't now. I keep searching ebay for one but have not seen one yet. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

November 24th, 2003, 12:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
KC Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 1,231 15 Photos	Here's an idea why not just buy another C30? you could use it for an extension cab or just take a y-cord and run 'em both. That way if your amp goes South in the middle of a set you can just keep playing. It seems like they're going for as little as $200 on ebay and an extension cab isn't going to be much cheaper than that.

November 24th, 2003, 04:59 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,405 3 Photos	Great idea, didn't think of that As it turns out, an ext. cab for the c30 112e has turned up on ebay, if I get it then fine, if not, I'll go for another c30. Thanks guys. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

November 25th, 2003, 03:38 PM	#20 (permalink)
11 Gauge Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The East Coast Posts: 2,898 10 Photos	C30 and impedance... actually there should be an external out plug on that C30. i think the O.T. tap for that one is actually 8 ohms... i seem to remember reading a recommendation to grab an 8 ohm speaker for the C30 and run it off the external cab jack... if you can find one, you may want to grab a Peavey Delta Blues 1X15. i've got one and that sucker moves some air - a very loud 30 watts, and fantastic with a Tele. You could then optimize your setup with the C30 tweaked just so, and the DB tweaked just so... a used DB should be on par with the cost of a used C30... __________________

November 25th, 2003, 05:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
Bob McLeod TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 24	C30 extension speaker The C30 speaker out is 16 ohm. You need a 16 ohm speaker in the extension cab, just like the main speaker. Coupled together, the load is 8 ohms. I've got the 112 E cab with a 16 ohm Celestion. Sounds great. Bob

November 26th, 2003, 02:31 PM	#23 (permalink)
11 Gauge Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The East Coast Posts: 2,898 10 Photos	that's what i thought... i believe Steve Ahola at the Blue Guitar was the one who pointed this out. he's partial to some 8 ohm Celestion model in his. thanx for the clarifications - yes, if you want to drop to 8 ohms you have to do it off the ext. jack only and tape off the leads for any internal speaker. FWIW i tried a Weber VST 8 ohm off the ext. out, and didn't really notice a difference. maybe i'm going deaf... or, you could buy a truckload of C30s off of ebay and run any impedance you want. as they blow up, send another soldier or 2 up to the frontline... if you can't have a mil-spec amp, then have a small army of cheap amps - the audience may even take it for part of your stage show. __________________
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