Replacing Transformer in 5E3 Tweed Deluxe

iReally · June 23rd, 2007, 03:10 PM

I have an original 5E3 Deluxe that I obtained a few years ago from my grandparents basement. The amp is not currently in full working order (the power light lights up, but no sound), so I took it to a friend who knows vintage fender amps. Following his advice, I am going to start by replacing the fuse (as it appears to be an incorrect replacement), the tubes, the speaker (it is torn badly) and the transformer. The transformer that is in it now is an incorrect replacement that is far too large and just sits in the bottom of the amp. What do I need to know about replacing the transformer before I dive in? Also, what is the difference between a "power transformer" and an "output transformer"? Thanks in advance!
-Ian

p.s. I'm new here so feel free to tell me about good places to buy parts and/or good DIY sites, etc.

Bob Arbogast · June 23rd, 2007, 04:41 PM

Ian,

If you don't know the difference between a power transformer and an output transformer, please unplug the amplifier, back away from it, and have a reliable tech do the repair -- for your own safety.

Bob Arbogast

Schnauzer · June 23rd, 2007, 04:46 PM

Welcome aboard IReally:

I am not the guy to advise you on repairing your Deluxe but being Saturday evening all the regulars are probably out gigging. Didn't want you to feel like nobody was here to help you. Be patient as the TDPRI has the best of the best to answer all your questions and get you on track.

Firstly, there are two transformers in your circuit. The input transformer changes the current to provide the plate voltage to the tubes. The output transformer alters the output of the tubes and provides the AC that your speaker needs. There are many vendors for these parts. You may want to begin by getting a circuit diagram and visiting the Mission Amps and Weber web sites. This will keep you busy until someone here gets on and helps you out. The 5e3 is a fairly simple circuit but the components interact and must be of the correct values. If you have had the amp plugged in be very carefull poking around as there are dangerous levels of current stored in some components even after the amp is turned off and unplugged. Wait til you get some competent expert advise here.

Do some searching of the archives here on the TDPRI. This will keep you busy and provide some basis to help you when one of our tech types logs on and helps you.

Best of luck,

Jim

iReally · June 23rd, 2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Arbogast

Ian,

If you don't know the difference between a power transformer and an output transformer, please unplug the amplifier, back away from it, and have a reliable tech do the repair -- for your own safety.

Bob Arbogast

Thanks for your concern Bob, but the amp isn't plugged in. I'm sure there was a time when you didn't know the difference between a power transformer and an output transformer too. I'm here to learn so I can fix the amp. I know that some people are going to recomend getting the work done by a proffesional, but that isn't what I want to do with this project. From what I can tell (and have been told by more than one person) the amp is very simple and I shouldn't have too much trouble repairing it.

iReally · June 23rd, 2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schnauzer

Welcome aboard IReally:

I am not the guy to advise you on repairing your Deluxe but being Saturday evening all the regulars are probably out gigging. Didn't want you to feel like nobody was here to help you. Be patient as the TDPRI has the best of the best to answer all your questions and get you on track.

Firstly, there are two transformers in your circuit. The input transformer changes the current to provide the plate voltage to the tubes. The output transformer alters the output of the tubes and provides the AC that your speaker needs. There are many vendors for these parts. You may want to begin by getting a circuit diagram and visiting the Mission Amps and Weber web sites. This will keep you busy until someone here gets on and helps you out. The 5e3 is a fairly simple circuit but the components interact and must be of the correct values. If you have had the amp plugged in be very carefull poking around as there are dangerous levels of current stored in some components even after the amp is turned off and unplugged. Wait til you get some competent expert advise here.

Do some searching of the archives here on the TDPRI. This will keep you busy and provide some basis to help you when one of our tech types logs on and helps you.

Best of luck,

Jim

Thanks for the help, Jim. I have no problem waiting for some expert opinions, I have no deadline to meet. Thanks for giving me hope that there are heplful people on here that might be able to give me the information I need to complete my project.
-Ian

aznrambo481 · June 23rd, 2007, 06:56 PM

many people here will advise you to have a professional look at it, or at least have a professional help you. There is more than 120V of power stored in an unplugged amp.

(start filter cap explanation here)

Just because an amp is unplugged doesn't mean there isn't a lethal amount of voltage in it. There are huge capacitors in tube amps to level out the voltage. They are made to store the electricity and let it out continuously. While this is all happy when the amp is closed, when you go tinkering around inside there is a chance this may discharge on you. If one hand is on the chasis and one hand touches a certain part of the capacitor, the current will pass from one hand to another, straight across your heart. here's a site that tells you how to discharge them. I believe this is something you can't get by without knowing while tinkering with amps. Take care, don't hurt yourself

Dacious · June 23rd, 2007, 08:55 PM

An ouput transformer has five wires soldered into the chassis. There is a centretap which goes to a junction with the high-voltage DC going to the preamp board.

There is a wire to one each of the power tube plate pins. If you have it connected up bass-ackwards you might get 'motorboating' which sounds like - well a motorboat. Don't cut the leads to final length until you verify it is working well.

On the other side are a speaker positive and negative. Whichever transformer you buy you need to know which wire is which. There are close reproduction 5E3s, but a modern Deluxe Reverb output tranny available most anywhere for about $20-30 will work well.

If you study a schematic and layout of the 5E3 on the Fender Field Amp guide it will show you where.

You will need a digital multimeter (DMM), a soldering iron and some tools like wire-strippers, pliers etc. It would be wise to read a book. A good basic guide is Tom Mitchell's How to Service Your Own Tube Amp: A Complete Guide for the Curious Musician which has diagnostic and safety info.

As noted, a 5E3 is a simple circuit but you can always stuff things up if impatient or not careful. If your soldering produces dull clumps which look like elephant snot mixed with acne you need some practice before trying to make reliable high voltage joins. If you're the kind of guy who's all thumbs or your kin cringes when you handle power tools, best to steer clear.

As well as the transformer you will probably find the capacitors (look like batteries with a lead out of each end) are almost certainly shot. If you can see little rusty blisters appearing on them they are in danger of exploding. The cathode bias resistor on the 5E3 is a little skimpy, too. Mouser is a good source for the resistors - pay attention to wattage ratings. You should use 1/2 watt for most but the cathode resistor should be 2 watts minimum.

I would not be firing it up as they are - if one pops, it can cause a short and fire, and the electrolyte inside is like a corrosive, sticky 'no more gaps' and will produce a treacle-like mess which is difficult to remove and will remove plating frm metal.

Hoffman amps is a source of high-voltage caps, as is Triode Electronics

I've dealt with both of these and have good experiences and service to Australia, but have no other affiliation. If you post the city you live in there may be someone closer to you that someone can nominate.

You will almost certainly need two types of electronic joint cleaner: a non-lubricating type for cleaning tube clinches in the tube sockets. And a switch and pot (potentiometer) cleaner with a lube in it. Do not use auto dewatering/lubricant like WD40 or RP7. These are petroleum based and leave oil which is not the best.

Your speaker can be reconed for little money (I would recommend this) and even torn is worth money if it is the original Jensen P12.

You can see, a 'little transfomer' change can turn into quite a project. Electronic things seem to deteriorate worse with long periods of no usage.

You might end up changing pots, resistors, tube sockets, capacitors as well.

Bob Arbogast · June 23rd, 2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iReally

Thanks for your concern Bob, but the amp isn't plugged in.

Please understand, my concern is only for your safety. Your initial post scared me some.

Quote:

I'm sure there was a time when you didn't know the difference between a power transformer and an output transformer too.

True. But then I went to an electronics trade school and became an honest-to-goodness electronic technician, though that was many lifetimes ago!

Quote:

From what I can tell (and have been told by more than one person) the amp is very simple and I shouldn't have too much trouble repairing it.

Simple or complex, the safety issues remain the same. So by all means learn the ropes (or the wires); just be careful.

Bob

iReally · June 23rd, 2007, 09:52 PM

Hey Dacious, thanks a lot. I'm aware that the capacitors might be bad, although none are blistered and they all apear to be ok in the opinion of my buddy that looked at the amp. I'm sure they are not working "like new" but I don't mind if the amp sounds old because, well, its old.

The speaker appears to be the original Jensen P12R, but is torn pretty badly (mostly just around the outside edge, though.) I plan to order a replacement (another P12R) but I'll keep the original in a box for later.

I had plugged the amp in a few times when I first found it a few years ago (because I didn't know anything) and all the tubes lit up, the power light came on, and the amp made a "humming" sound. The last time I plugged it in, the rectifier tube blew and I haven't touched it since untill now. My buddy noticed that the speaker was plugged into the wrong output the other day, so I guess it's possible that could have been the only reason it didn't play when I got it.

The transformer, however, is an incorrect relpacement and is way too big so I want to replace it right away so it doesn't cause any problems. While I'm replacing the transformer, I would also like to change the power chord to a 3 prong.

Judging by your description of the Output Transformer, I am reasonably certain that the transformer I am concerned with is the Input Transformer (same as a "power transformer"??) The Transformer I am talking about is located to the far left of the chasis (under the ground, fuse, and on/off switch.) Wires from this transformer are in 2 groups.
Group 1 runs to: Fuse, On/Off Switch, Power Light, and is Grounded to the chasis.
Group 2 runs to: 4 points on the rectifier tube, and is grounded to the chasis.

I do not know if there are suposed to be these seperate "groupings" because the transformer is not original, but thats how it is layed out here.

Am I on the right page here? Thanks for your help!
-Ian

iReally · June 23rd, 2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Arbogast

Please understand, my concern is only for your safety. Your initial post scared me some.

Bob

Alright man, it's all good. I just felt a little insulted when I first read your initial reply to my questions. I realize there are dangers involved, and that's exactly why I'm here. Thanks for lookin' out.

Dacious · June 23rd, 2007, 10:58 PM

You can't tell capacitors are shot by 'looking' at them. You need to measure their charge/discharge rate by fairly complex means which is beyond most people. Just becasue they aren't blistered doesn't mean they aren't dried up inisde. Caps smooth out the ripples (buzz) from the rectified DV voltage - but if they are deficient they also contribute to acting like a filter and pulling other frequencies out, not to mention volume. The original Deluxe is a hummy amp, but bad power filters are like a buzzsaw. The filter caps in these early amps were only good for 350 volts on a good day, so if it's been run on 400+ they would be gone. This is an area I would not cheap out on if you want the amp to sound half-decent. It's preventative maintenance.

If you have the wrong power transformer (which is the one you're looking at) it will likely blow the rectifier. It will also blow quite a few other parts, so don't turn it on again until replaced. The power transformer will need to be replaced with one correctly designed for a 5E3 - they run around 100 volts less than a Brown or later Deluxe due to the cathode biasing scheme.

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 12:30 AM

Once again, thanks a lot Dacious. Would a "re-cap" kit with the 3 large capacitors be a good enough solution or would I have to replace all of the smaller ones as well? Also, while you have certainly persuaded me more towards doing some new capacitors, there shouldn't be any extreme danger with running the amp with the current capacitors for a little once i put in the new transformer, 3 prong power chord, and tubes, correct? None of the capacitors are blistered at all, and I would certainly keep an eye on them to make sure no blistering develops.
-Ian

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 01:27 AM

Also, where can I find a good 3 prong power chord? I have seen some 3 prong chords, but nothing that looks appropriate for the amp.

CoolHandDuke · June 24th, 2007, 02:10 AM

my advice is DO NOT leave the tubes at your friends house

what up dog

Rick S · June 24th, 2007, 02:50 AM

The transformer sitting in the bottom of the amp description really does sound dangerous. Working out a problem on an unmolested amp is one thing, but sorting out something that has had improper service may well be a little too ambitious for someone new to the team. Maybe you could post detailed pictures so the group could better advise?

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolHandDuke

my advice is DO NOT leave the tubes at your friends house

what up dog

Haha, thanks. Is this Matt?

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 09:25 AM

Yea, good point Rick S. I can post pictures up soon. It appears to me that the inccorect transformer that is hooked up now has extension wires added on to it because the ones that came on it were not long enough to reach to the bottom of the cabinet where this over-sized transformer lives. However, the extension wire are properly color coded to match the wires coming out of the transformer, so there really isnt any added confusion there. Either way, I don't trust the way this transformer is wired because it is the wrong one, so whoever put it in might not have been the brightest bulb in the box.

I will definitely post some pictures soon, but my original thought was that the proper 5E3 replacement power transformer will come with properly color coded wires and someone could post a list of what goes to what and I could soldier it up accordingly.

Still searching for a good 3 prong that would be appropriate for the amp.

--Edit--

Actually, I have a couple diagrams of the wiring, (one of which is really easy to understand) so I should be able to hook up the new transformer according to that. There doesn't appear to be anything funny going on, just soldiering.

The colors of the wires from the current transformer do not match up to the colors on the diagram, so I won't try to base anything with the new transformer off of the current one.

The only thing on the diagram that seems strange to me is that there are 2 red wires going to the rectifier tube. If those are interchangable, I am fine. Otherwise, I don't know how I will be able to tell them apart. (I don't have the proper transformer yet to look at, it's still in the mail, so I'm just basing this off the diagram)

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 10:20 AM

Pictures:

close up of wiring

close up of current power transformer

Let me know if more pictures are needed.

Munga · June 24th, 2007, 10:35 AM

I always think vintage amps should be taken to a qualified tech, just as a tune up procedure. Theres can be problems in them those vintage amps that not even us experienced builders will notice. If you are dead set on DIY, just make sure the joints are still good, no rust, the caps are replaced, tubes replaced, and transformers are replaced.
Also, make sure to follow proper first time startup procedure when you first power it up. I'll find a link if I can, but basically you check functionality one component at a time.

zook · June 24th, 2007, 03:48 PM

That's the power transformer. lots of volts there. There are replacements from cheap to inexpensive to overpriced that will drop in.

Winnie

Rick S · June 24th, 2007, 11:19 PM

Oh my.....quite a hack job there. First thing, this is really dangerous, don't plug it in.

The good news is, it wouldn't be a big job to fix....for an amp tech. As far as fixing yourself, if you read up on the safety issues and learn to read the layout diagrams, etc., you could probably get it installed yourself...but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you put it aside and really learn the in's and out's of tube amps. Here's why.....we know the original power transformer failed for some reason. It's unusual for a power transformer to just give up on it's own. Usually something else fails that causes too much current to be pulled through it that smokes the transformer. So, if you install a new transformer without knowing if a problem is lurking elsewhere, you stand a pretty good chance of smoking your new transformer.

I suppose my recommendation would be to take it to someone experienced in vintage amps, or step back and educate yourself in the technology until you are confident you can handle the fix safely. It's certainly something a knowledgeable hobbyist could handle, but far too involved to cover with a few tips from the group.

iReally · June 24th, 2007, 11:52 PM

Rick S, you bring up a good point that the transformer being replaced probably means that something went wrong to blow the original transformer. My buddy and I had discussed that, but we were hoping that the guy just replaced it because he had no idea what he was doing. I will deffinintly look into that more though, thanks for the info!
-Ian

CoolHandDuke · June 25th, 2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iReally

Rick S, you bring up a good point that the transformer being replaced probably means that something went wrong to blow the original transformer. My buddy and I had discussed that, but we were hoping that the guy just replaced it because he had no idea what he was doing. I will deffinintly look into that more though, thanks for the info!
-Ian

great minds think alike

my advice is try to learn everything you can and proceed with caution

read and study as much as you can on the net lots of good info out there

im sure others will post more on this topic

also

when you get tired of researching this

practice your c major scale backwards and forwards saying outloud

LOL

June 23rd, 2007, 03:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Replacing Transformer in 5E3 Tweed Deluxe I have an original 5E3 Deluxe that I obtained a few years ago from my grandparents basement. The amp is not currently in full working order (the power light lights up, but no sound), so I took it to a friend who knows vintage fender amps. Following his advice, I am going to start by replacing the fuse (as it appears to be an incorrect replacement), the tubes, the speaker (it is torn badly) and the transformer. The transformer that is in it now is an incorrect replacement that is far too large and just sits in the bottom of the amp. What do I need to know about replacing the transformer before I dive in? Also, what is the difference between a "power transformer" and an "output transformer"? Thanks in advance! -Ian p.s. I'm new here so feel free to tell me about good places to buy parts and/or good DIY sites, etc.

June 23rd, 2007, 04:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bob Arbogast Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA Age: 48 Posts: 511	Ian, If you don't know the difference between a power transformer and an output transformer, please unplug the amplifier, back away from it, and have a reliable tech do the repair -- for your own safety. Bob Arbogast __________________ "Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain

June 23rd, 2007, 04:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Schnauzer Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Coeur d'Alene Idaho Age: 61 Posts: 160	5E3 Transformers Welcome aboard IReally: I am not the guy to advise you on repairing your Deluxe but being Saturday evening all the regulars are probably out gigging. Didn't want you to feel like nobody was here to help you. Be patient as the TDPRI has the best of the best to answer all your questions and get you on track. Firstly, there are two transformers in your circuit. The input transformer changes the current to provide the plate voltage to the tubes. The output transformer alters the output of the tubes and provides the AC that your speaker needs. There are many vendors for these parts. You may want to begin by getting a circuit diagram and visiting the Mission Amps and Weber web sites. This will keep you busy until someone here gets on and helps you out. The 5e3 is a fairly simple circuit but the components interact and must be of the correct values. If you have had the amp plugged in be very carefull poking around as there are dangerous levels of current stored in some components even after the amp is turned off and unplugged. Wait til you get some competent expert advise here. Do some searching of the archives here on the TDPRI. This will keep you busy and provide some basis to help you when one of our tech types logs on and helps you. Best of luck, Jim __________________ Jim - "You boys doesn't play none of that narcotic music do ya?" The Clayton Club 1984

June 23rd, 2007, 06:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
aznrambo481 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: La Jolla, California Age: 17 Posts: 2,842 6 Photos	many people here will advise you to have a professional look at it, or at least have a professional help you. There is more than 120V of power stored in an unplugged amp. (start filter cap explanation here) Just because an amp is unplugged doesn't mean there isn't a lethal amount of voltage in it. There are huge capacitors in tube amps to level out the voltage. They are made to store the electricity and let it out continuously. While this is all happy when the amp is closed, when you go tinkering around inside there is a chance this may discharge on you. If one hand is on the chasis and one hand touches a certain part of the capacitor, the current will pass from one hand to another, straight across your heart. here's a site that tells you how to discharge them. I believe this is something you can't get by without knowing while tinkering with amps. Take care, don't hurt yourself __________________ "Never age. Never die. Live forever in that one last white-hot moment, when the crowd screamed. When every note was a heartbeat. Burn across the sky."-Terry Pratchett, Soul Music.

June 23rd, 2007, 08:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,612 35 Photos	An ouput transformer has five wires soldered into the chassis. There is a centretap which goes to a junction with the high-voltage DC going to the preamp board. There is a wire to one each of the power tube plate pins. If you have it connected up bass-ackwards you might get 'motorboating' which sounds like - well a motorboat. Don't cut the leads to final length until you verify it is working well. On the other side are a speaker positive and negative. Whichever transformer you buy you need to know which wire is which. There are close reproduction 5E3s, but a modern Deluxe Reverb output tranny available most anywhere for about $20-30 will work well. If you study a schematic and layout of the 5E3 on the Fender Field Amp guide it will show you where. You will need a digital multimeter (DMM), a soldering iron and some tools like wire-strippers, pliers etc. It would be wise to read a book. A good basic guide is Tom Mitchell's How to Service Your Own Tube Amp: A Complete Guide for the Curious Musician which has diagnostic and safety info. As noted, a 5E3 is a simple circuit but you can always stuff things up if impatient or not careful. If your soldering produces dull clumps which look like elephant snot mixed with acne you need some practice before trying to make reliable high voltage joins. If you're the kind of guy who's all thumbs or your kin cringes when you handle power tools, best to steer clear. As well as the transformer you will probably find the capacitors (look like batteries with a lead out of each end) are almost certainly shot. If you can see little rusty blisters appearing on them they are in danger of exploding. The cathode bias resistor on the 5E3 is a little skimpy, too. Mouser is a good source for the resistors - pay attention to wattage ratings. You should use 1/2 watt for most but the cathode resistor should be 2 watts minimum. I would not be firing it up as they are - if one pops, it can cause a short and fire, and the electrolyte inside is like a corrosive, sticky 'no more gaps' and will produce a treacle-like mess which is difficult to remove and will remove plating frm metal. Hoffman amps is a source of high-voltage caps, as is Triode Electronics I've dealt with both of these and have good experiences and service to Australia, but have no other affiliation. If you post the city you live in there may be someone closer to you that someone can nominate. You will almost certainly need two types of electronic joint cleaner: a non-lubricating type for cleaning tube clinches in the tube sockets. And a switch and pot (potentiometer) cleaner with a lube in it. Do not use auto dewatering/lubricant like WD40 or RP7. These are petroleum based and leave oil which is not the best. Your speaker can be reconed for little money (I would recommend this) and even torn is worth money if it is the original Jensen P12. You can see, a 'little transfomer' change can turn into quite a project. Electronic things seem to deteriorate worse with long periods of no usage. You might end up changing pots, resistors, tube sockets, capacitors as well. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

June 23rd, 2007, 09:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Hey Dacious, thanks a lot. I'm aware that the capacitors might be bad, although none are blistered and they all apear to be ok in the opinion of my buddy that looked at the amp. I'm sure they are not working "like new" but I don't mind if the amp sounds old because, well, its old. The speaker appears to be the original Jensen P12R, but is torn pretty badly (mostly just around the outside edge, though.) I plan to order a replacement (another P12R) but I'll keep the original in a box for later. I had plugged the amp in a few times when I first found it a few years ago (because I didn't know anything) and all the tubes lit up, the power light came on, and the amp made a "humming" sound. The last time I plugged it in, the rectifier tube blew and I haven't touched it since untill now. My buddy noticed that the speaker was plugged into the wrong output the other day, so I guess it's possible that could have been the only reason it didn't play when I got it. The transformer, however, is an incorrect relpacement and is way too big so I want to replace it right away so it doesn't cause any problems. While I'm replacing the transformer, I would also like to change the power chord to a 3 prong. Judging by your description of the Output Transformer, I am reasonably certain that the transformer I am concerned with is the Input Transformer (same as a "power transformer"??) The Transformer I am talking about is located to the far left of the chasis (under the ground, fuse, and on/off switch.) Wires from this transformer are in 2 groups. Group 1 runs to: Fuse, On/Off Switch, Power Light, and is Grounded to the chasis. Group 2 runs to: 4 points on the rectifier tube, and is grounded to the chasis. I do not know if there are suposed to be these seperate "groupings" because the transformer is not original, but thats how it is layed out here. Am I on the right page here? Thanks for your help! -Ian

June 23rd, 2007, 10:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,612 35 Photos	You can't tell capacitors are shot by 'looking' at them. You need to measure their charge/discharge rate by fairly complex means which is beyond most people. Just becasue they aren't blistered doesn't mean they aren't dried up inisde. Caps smooth out the ripples (buzz) from the rectified DV voltage - but if they are deficient they also contribute to acting like a filter and pulling other frequencies out, not to mention volume. The original Deluxe is a hummy amp, but bad power filters are like a buzzsaw. The filter caps in these early amps were only good for 350 volts on a good day, so if it's been run on 400+ they would be gone. This is an area I would not cheap out on if you want the amp to sound half-decent. It's preventative maintenance. If you have the wrong power transformer (which is the one you're looking at) it will likely blow the rectifier. It will also blow quite a few other parts, so don't turn it on again until replaced. The power transformer will need to be replaced with one correctly designed for a 5E3 - they run around 100 volts less than a Brown or later Deluxe due to the cathode biasing scheme. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

June 24th, 2007, 12:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Once again, thanks a lot Dacious. Would a "re-cap" kit with the 3 large capacitors be a good enough solution or would I have to replace all of the smaller ones as well? Also, while you have certainly persuaded me more towards doing some new capacitors, there shouldn't be any extreme danger with running the amp with the current capacitors for a little once i put in the new transformer, 3 prong power chord, and tubes, correct? None of the capacitors are blistered at all, and I would certainly keep an eye on them to make sure no blistering develops. -Ian

June 24th, 2007, 01:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Also, where can I find a good 3 prong power chord? I have seen some 3 prong chords, but nothing that looks appropriate for the amp.

June 24th, 2007, 02:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
CoolHandDuke TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 23	my advice is DO NOT leave the tubes at your friends house what up dog

June 24th, 2007, 02:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
Rick S Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 494	The transformer sitting in the bottom of the amp description really does sound dangerous. Working out a problem on an unmolested amp is one thing, but sorting out something that has had improper service may well be a little too ambitious for someone new to the team. Maybe you could post detailed pictures so the group could better advise?

June 24th, 2007, 09:25 AM	#17 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Yea, good point Rick S. I can post pictures up soon. It appears to me that the inccorect transformer that is hooked up now has extension wires added on to it because the ones that came on it were not long enough to reach to the bottom of the cabinet where this over-sized transformer lives. However, the extension wire are properly color coded to match the wires coming out of the transformer, so there really isnt any added confusion there. Either way, I don't trust the way this transformer is wired because it is the wrong one, so whoever put it in might not have been the brightest bulb in the box. I will definitely post some pictures soon, but my original thought was that the proper 5E3 replacement power transformer will come with properly color coded wires and someone could post a list of what goes to what and I could soldier it up accordingly. Still searching for a good 3 prong that would be appropriate for the amp. --Edit-- Actually, I have a couple diagrams of the wiring, (one of which is really easy to understand) so I should be able to hook up the new transformer according to that. There doesn't appear to be anything funny going on, just soldiering. The colors of the wires from the current transformer do not match up to the colors on the diagram, so I won't try to base anything with the new transformer off of the current one. The only thing on the diagram that seems strange to me is that there are 2 red wires going to the rectifier tube. If those are interchangable, I am fine. Otherwise, I don't know how I will be able to tell them apart. (I don't have the proper transformer yet to look at, it's still in the mail, so I'm just basing this off the diagram)

June 24th, 2007, 10:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Pictures: close up of wiring close up of current power transformer Let me know if more pictures are needed.

June 24th, 2007, 10:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
Munga TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Santa Barbara Age: 18 Posts: 63	I always think vintage amps should be taken to a qualified tech, just as a tune up procedure. Theres can be problems in them those vintage amps that not even us experienced builders will notice. If you are dead set on DIY, just make sure the joints are still good, no rust, the caps are replaced, tubes replaced, and transformers are replaced. Also, make sure to follow proper first time startup procedure when you first power it up. I'll find a link if I can, but basically you check functionality one component at a time.

June 24th, 2007, 03:48 PM	#20 (permalink)
zook Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northeast Kingdom, Vermont Posts: 800	That's the power transformer. lots of volts there. There are replacements from cheap to inexpensive to overpriced that will drop in. Winnie __________________ I have noticed that happy people are often evaluating themselves and unhappy people are always evaluating others. -William Glasser

June 24th, 2007, 11:19 PM	#21 (permalink)
Rick S Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 494	Oh my.....quite a hack job there. First thing, this is really dangerous, don't plug it in. The good news is, it wouldn't be a big job to fix....for an amp tech. As far as fixing yourself, if you read up on the safety issues and learn to read the layout diagrams, etc., you could probably get it installed yourself...but I wouldn't recommend it, unless you put it aside and really learn the in's and out's of tube amps. Here's why.....we know the original power transformer failed for some reason. It's unusual for a power transformer to just give up on it's own. Usually something else fails that causes too much current to be pulled through it that smokes the transformer. So, if you install a new transformer without knowing if a problem is lurking elsewhere, you stand a pretty good chance of smoking your new transformer. I suppose my recommendation would be to take it to someone experienced in vintage amps, or step back and educate yourself in the technology until you are confident you can handle the fix safely. It's certainly something a knowledgeable hobbyist could handle, but far too involved to cover with a few tips from the group.

June 24th, 2007, 11:52 PM	#22 (permalink)
iReally TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 38	Rick S, you bring up a good point that the transformer being replaced probably means that something went wrong to blow the original transformer. My buddy and I had discussed that, but we were hoping that the guy just replaced it because he had no idea what he was doing. I will deffinintly look into that more though, thanks for the info! -Ian