which Weber speaker for a Pro Junior?

[appar111]

I snagged a Pro Junior on ebay for $230 today with the intent of swapping out the stock ceramic speaker in it for something a little better. I'm after a warmer tone, with smooth but early breakup, sorta compressed sounding so I can do without overdrive pedals if possible. Something that I can use the volume knob to control the amount of overdrive.

The stock Pro Jr. speaker is just too harsh sounding, IMO, and really needs warming up and some "softening", if you will. I'm assuming that as loud as the Pro Jr. is, I'll need something rated at 30 watts, despite the amp only being rated at 15 watts.

I'm looking at the following alnico choices from Ted Weber:

Alnico Silver 10 - $95
10A125-O - $95

[jh45gun]

I would wait until ya get it and see what the origional sounds like. Just because one may sound harsh maybe another might sound ok.

[appar111]

Yeah, perhaps I shouldn't jump the gun, but every one that I've tried in the past couple years has been harsh once it gets up to about 5 on the volume dial. The old ones w/ the different speaker in them were nicer sounding (I still remember when Fender had just come out w/ the tweed ones-- should have bought one way back then.)

But in the meantime there's about an 80% chance that I'm gonna change the speaker.

[Stubee]

I'd wait to hear it, too.

I replaced my Fender "brown-backed" speaker with a Celestion G-10S-50, purchased used (as was the amp). I liked the original speaker, but wanted a bit less break-up at higher volume. The Celestion accomplishes that, has more "punch" vs. "crunch" at 5-6 settings or so.

But I never thought my PJ was "harsh" in the first place, so you're likely looking for a different tone thing than me.

[FMA]

Another vote to hear it first. But just to confuse things, my PJ has the blue alnico speaker in it and it sounds great. Excellent recording amp.

[Daddy Elmis]

I put a Weber 10A125 in mine (their 10" vintage series alnico) -- very nice. Took the harshness out, gave me a bit more headroom (along with JJ retube, with a 12ay7). Between 3-4 on amp volume the sound is clean in that tweedy sort of way (i.e., not Twin clean), from 4-6 it's overdriving and the guitar volume and pick attack really determine the grind level, and after that it just get more overdriven (7-8 is amazing for lead -- hit it with a boost pedal there and you've got controlled feedback for days.).

The Weber is really nice, and for $80 (don't know what they cost now) it was definitely worth the upgrade.

[Marky D.]

Do you still have the BMRI? If so, you could try one of the alnicos from it as a test. You could also make an adapter and to run the bassman cab w/ the PJ..

[tjalla]

I've been down this road. Best thing I did to my PJ was to disconnect the Negative feedback loop. It made the amp less "stiff" and more willing to give up into overdrive, rather than sounding choked when cranked. Before this I swapped the stock brown ceramic speaker for a few different webers - I tried a 10F125, 10A125, Eminence Alnico Legends. IMO the NFB mod made the biggest difference and speaker swaps more viable as the amp lost that inherent "stiff" sound.

The mod made the amp darker, with less clean headroom - more tweed/raw-like (warmer/softening as you described). That does mean it works better with brighter speakers. The best tone I ever got out the PJ (post-mod) was when I mounted the chassis externally, put a 12" baffle for a Weber 12F150T. Did a small club gig easily with a 4pc blues band, sounded excellent.

About the mod:

!!Disclaimer!! Get a tech if you're not experienced poking around a tube amp!

At the output speaker jack there are three wires. Unsolder the wire that runs to the circuit board and tape it up. That's it!

For your requirements, I'd recommend the 10A125-O - I had the 12" version and it too sounded great - not as loud as the 12F150T but very vibey breakup, and definitely vol knob controllable.

Trevor

[appar111]

Originally Posted by Daddy Elmis

I put a Weber 10A125 in mine (their 10" vintage series alnico)

The Weber 10A125 is only a 15 watt speaker, right? Shouldn't it be rated a little higher than that for a 15 watt amp?

[appar111]

Originally Posted by tjalla

I've been down this road. Best thing I did to my PJ was to disconnect the Negative feedback loop. It made the amp less "stiff" and more willing to give up into overdrive, rather than sounding choked when cranked. Before this I swapped the stock brown ceramic speaker for a few different webers - I tried a 10F125, 10A125, Eminence Alnico Legends. IMO the NFB mod made the biggest difference and speaker swaps more viable as the amp lost that inherent "stiff" sound.

The mod made the amp darker, with less clean headroom - more tweed/raw-like (warmer/softening as you described). That does mean it works better with brighter speakers. The best tone I ever got out the PJ (post-mod) was when I mounted the chassis externally, put a 12" baffle for a Weber 12F150T. Did a small club gig easily with a 4pc blues band, sounded excellent.

About the mod:

!!Disclaimer!! Get a tech if you're not experienced poking around a tube amp!

At the output speaker jack there are three wires. Unsolder the wire that runs to the circuit board and tape it up. That's it!

For your requirements, I'd recommend the 10A125-O - I had the 12" version and it too sounded great - not as loud as the 12F150T but very vibey breakup, and definitely vol knob controllable.

Trevor

Trevor-
Thanks for the tip. I had read that somewhere else too about the negative feedback loop. Someone mentioned just clipping the purple wire (while the amp is unplugged and dissipated, of course), which is the NFB loop, and I'll be good to go.

I think the NFB loop may also be what's contributing to the harsh/stiff sound of the amp.

I love modding stuff like this and knowing that I'll have a way more useable amp.

So, a 10" Weber 10A125-O, clip NFB loop and drop some JJ tubes in it, and I'll be good to go, right?

[Sqwerl]

I put a 10F125 in a cabinet with a Peavey Rage 158 amp for power. sounds great. Smooth , lots of bottom and punch. I think it was the 20 watt speaker.

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by appar111

The Weber 10A125 is only a 15 watt speaker, right? Shouldn't it be rated a little higher than that for a 15 watt amp?

I'm pretty sure they are 20w standard, with a 30w option if requested - I have a pair of 30watters. Even then, Webers are conservatively rated and their 15w 10A100 is a common Pro Jr replacement.

fwiw, I'd steer away from the 10F125 - I find it a bit too 'steely' having the "Q" cone, smaller voice coil and the ceramic mag.

[appar111]

So if I go w/ the 10A125-O or the alnico 10" Silver Bell, would a 20 watt speaker be high enough wattage for the Pro Jr.?

I'm assuming even a 15 watter would be ok (i.e. the Weber 10A100), since some of the best rock tones are a 100 watt head into four 25-watt celestion greenbacks (i.e. 25 x 4 = 100, same total wattage as the amp).

[appar111]

Originally Posted by tjalla

Even then, Webers are conservatively rated and their 15w 10A100 is a common Pro Jr replacement.

ahhh, good to know! That's what I was hoping for.

[tjalla]

If you're gonna crank the amp to 12 on a regular basis, either the 30w option, or 20w with doping will help prevent ghost notes, cone cry and other odd noises, esp higher up the neck.

Another classic example of equal wattage amp/speaker combos is Vox AC15s with a 15w Celestion Blue, or AC30s with 2x Celestion Blues.

Keep us posted!

[appar111]

Originally Posted by tjalla

If you're gonna crank the amp to 12 on a regular basis, either the 30w option, or 20w with doping will help prevent ghost notes, cone cry and other odd noises, esp higher up the neck.

Another classic example of equal wattage amp/speaker combos is Vox AC15s with a 15w Celestion Blue, or AC30s with 2x Celestion Blues.

Keep us posted!

I very highly doubt I'd have it up to 12 on a regular basis (probably very very rarely), so 20 watt 10A125-O should do the trick. How would a 30 watt version of the same speaker change the tone over a 20 watt? Or would it change the tone at all?

[slideman]

I posted my review of this speaker swap with this Weber model a week or so ago in this forum -- it made a huge difference in my tone. It compresses early, much smoother, less stiff, and the tone is fantastic. The speaker swap took about 20 minutes or so.

I highly recommend it -- since then I've been playing the PJ more than most of my other amps, whereas before, it was occasional.

[tjalla]

A higher wattage speaker (all else being equal) is slightly smoother and darker, possibly a tad less efficient too - that's not always a bad thing. If you're not regularly cranking it the 20w should hold up fine.

All up tho, to confirm things, best is to post any queries on the Weber forums, if you address it to ted in the subject header, he usually replies in person.

Off to bed now - its waaaay too late my side of the world

Trevor

[appar111]

Originally Posted by slideman

I posted my review of this speaker swap with this Weber model a week or so ago in this forum -- it made a huge difference in my tone. It compresses early, much smoother, less stiff, and the tone is fantastic. The speaker swap took about 20 minutes or so.

I highly recommend it -- since then I've been playing the PJ more than most of my other amps, whereas before, it was occasional.

Cool, I'll check that review out. I think that's the speaker I'll go with. I'll do the NFB mod and some new tubes (JJ, TAD or JAN/GE), and this will be a s*#tkicker of an amp, I think!

to Tjalla-
Thanks for the tip on the Weber forums!

J.