using an organ with a guitar tube amp- how to fix harmonics

aznxtasy341 · May 15th, 2007, 12:27 AM

when i try to run my roland vk-8 organ through my 93 HR deville, i get a decent tone in the middle register, a too bassy tone from the low, and screeching from the high.. this is most likely due to the circuitry of the guitar amp, which was in fact taylored for a guitar...

my question is.. is it possible to run the organ through an eq, so i would be able to turn off the harmonics that screech etc.. to fix the organ tone a little??

Guitarslinger1 · May 15th, 2007, 02:25 AM

Not much you can do to the organ's tone to make the hotrod guitar amp not sound like a hotrod guitar amp.

I'll be blunt. Most guitar amps are far from ideal for keyboards, and guitar amps such as yours are even less suited for it.

The ideal amp for a keyboard will have a flat frequency response (or maybe even somewhat scooped in the midrange), and managable gain for a resonably clean signal, with high headroom. Your guitar amp is almost the antithesis of this.

I recommend coming up with another amplification method for it like a PA system, or keyboard amp. But, if you have to use that amp, set it on the cleanest channel, set the drive control for low drive, turn the master full up and control the volume with the volume control.

You may want to try one or more lower gain preamp tubes. 12AY7, 12AT7, 5751, and 12AU7 are examples of tubes that are lower in gain than the 12AX7, and that are directly interchangeble.

aznxtasy341 · May 16th, 2007, 12:07 AM

is it possible to use an equalizer though? and fix all the frequencies that get muddy etc..?

Flashback · May 16th, 2007, 12:26 AM

Deep Purple did it with a Marshall Combo... and they sounded amazing.

Guitarslinger1 · May 16th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashback

Deep Purple did it with a Marshall Combo... and they sounded amazing.

Marshall stacks I believe...

Regardless, I couldn't agree with you more, but there are several differences to consider.

1. His keyboard is not a Hammond organ.

2. His amp is not a Marshall

3. No offense intended towards aznxtasy341, but he is not John Lord.

4. Unless he's wanting to play old Deep Purple, John Lord's rig might not even work for him.

aznxtasy341, I doubt the EQ would help much, but you can sure try it.

Again, no offense intended towards anyone, but I don't really like those amps for guitar. To me they're just not sweet sounding. But I know they are quite popular, which is great, so please, no flaming...

Now if you had a Twin on the other hand, the correct speakers, and minor mods might just get you something very nice sounding.

ibobunot · May 16th, 2007, 04:43 AM

Have you tried plugging it into the FX loop? That bypasses the preamp and it might give you a flatter EQ.

aznxtasy341 · May 16th, 2007, 08:02 PM

seems like running it through the fx loop does do it some what, it just breaks up a little bit on the high notes..

ive read that jon lord has also used a fender twin with a hammond M-3

keep in mind, the Roland vk-8, although it isnt a real hammond is made to be a direct replacement for lugging organs around to gigs. so i think it should somewhat react the same way, tone to amp wise, of that of a real hammond.

but.. is it the twins 100+ watts that gets the tone out? at low levels of course, the harmonics/high frequencies dont fart out.. this is the only problem im getting when i play it through the HR..

ibobunot · May 16th, 2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aznxtasy341

I've read that jon lord has also used a fender twin with a hammond M-3

"Q - Was Lord running a silverface Fender at the time?

A - Yes, I do remember repairing this amp for Jon Lord
I also did the mods to make it a black face twin
He used it just for the Fender Rhodes stage piano
John "Dawk" Stillwell"

EMan · May 16th, 2007, 11:45 PM

I tend to agree - keyboard amps and guitar amps hain't the same creatures.

When I worked at a Hammond Service Center, we had a B3 player that gig'd with a BF Dual Showman (2X15 cab) with JBL's). The amp was modified for 6550's, and sounded damn good.

If the keyboard doesn't have a built in "overdrive" tone, it's not gonna be easy to get it without a Leslie. If it does have an OD tone, then I'd say that a UL Twin (relatively cheap), fitted with some JBL, or equivalent speakers would sound pretty good.

I guess the answer to the original quest is - probably not gonna do what you want.

May 15th, 2007, 12:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
aznxtasy341 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 478	using an organ with a guitar tube amp- how to fix harmonics when i try to run my roland vk-8 organ through my 93 HR deville, i get a decent tone in the middle register, a too bassy tone from the low, and screeching from the high.. this is most likely due to the circuitry of the guitar amp, which was in fact taylored for a guitar... my question is.. is it possible to run the organ through an eq, so i would be able to turn off the harmonics that screech etc.. to fix the organ tone a little??

May 16th, 2007, 12:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
Flashback Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florence, South Carolina Posts: 744 4 Photos	Deep Purple did it with a Marshall Combo... and they sounded amazing. __________________ "You don't gotta be loud Son, to be heavy as S**t!" The Nightwatchman

May 16th, 2007, 08:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
aznxtasy341 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 478	seems like running it through the fx loop does do it some what, it just breaks up a little bit on the high notes.. ive read that jon lord has also used a fender twin with a hammond M-3 keep in mind, the Roland vk-8, although it isnt a real hammond is made to be a direct replacement for lugging organs around to gigs. so i think it should somewhat react the same way, tone to amp wise, of that of a real hammond. but.. is it the twins 100+ watts that gets the tone out? at low levels of course, the harmonics/high frequencies dont fart out.. this is the only problem im getting when i play it through the HR.. Last edited by aznxtasy341; May 16th, 2007 at 09:23 PM.

May 15th, 2007, 02:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Guitarslinger1 Banned Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 966	Not much you can do to the organ's tone to make the hotrod guitar amp not sound like a hotrod guitar amp. I'll be blunt. Most guitar amps are far from ideal for keyboards, and guitar amps such as yours are even less suited for it. The ideal amp for a keyboard will have a flat frequency response (or maybe even somewhat scooped in the midrange), and managable gain for a resonably clean signal, with high headroom. Your guitar amp is almost the antithesis of this. I recommend coming up with another amplification method for it like a PA system, or keyboard amp. But, if you have to use that amp, set it on the cleanest channel, set the drive control for low drive, turn the master full up and control the volume with the volume control. You may want to try one or more lower gain preamp tubes. 12AY7, 12AT7, 5751, and 12AU7 are examples of tubes that are lower in gain than the 12AX7, and that are directly interchangeble.

May 16th, 2007, 12:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
aznxtasy341 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 478	is it possible to use an equalizer though? and fix all the frequencies that get muddy etc..?

May 16th, 2007, 04:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
ibobunot Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Dullsville Posts: 3,456	Have you tried plugging it into the FX loop? That bypasses the preamp and it might give you a flatter EQ.

May 16th, 2007, 11:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
EMan Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 939	I tend to agree - keyboard amps and guitar amps hain't the same creatures. When I worked at a Hammond Service Center, we had a B3 player that gig'd with a BF Dual Showman (2X15 cab) with JBL's). The amp was modified for 6550's, and sounded damn good. If the keyboard doesn't have a built in "overdrive" tone, it's not gonna be easy to get it without a Leslie. If it does have an OD tone, then I'd say that a UL Twin (relatively cheap), fitted with some JBL, or equivalent speakers would sound pretty good. I guess the answer to the original quest is - probably not gonna do what you want.