Saw a Fender Tweed Deluxe this weekend.

chet · May 14th, 2007, 10:28 AM

There was some guy playing another amp right next to it so I didn't try it out.
$1679.00. No way I'd pay that much for an amp that little.

Should've asked the kid to play through the Tweed Deluxe.

Wally · May 14th, 2007, 05:29 PM

the TWeed Deluxe has proven in studios and stages around the world that it is not the physical sized that matters....it is the aural quality of the sonics.
Cost??? Well, as one post in another thread noted....considering inflation, that new Fender probably costs about what the originals did back in the '50's. Of course, Fender products never were the least expensive option out there, were they? As they say, the proof is in the pudding. those original Tweeds are still chugging along...my '49 kicks butt and takes names. I just sold a recovered/restored '58 to a fellow in INdiana who is more than happy with the expenditure.
If Fender did this one correctly, then more power to them. Imho, Billy G and Neil Young among countless others can't be wrong about the little Deluxe.

CancerLeoCam · May 14th, 2007, 05:32 PM

The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one.

stantheman · May 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM

Get someone to build You the Weber Kit. there's always someone on ebay that just completed another one played it for 20 hours to make sure it's cool and wants to sell it so they can build another.
From what I gather people who have "the talent" to build 'em get quite addicted to the process of the build and burn-in.
Next year when She loosens the purse strings...look out!!!
7 months two weeks three days and counting

joe c · May 14th, 2007, 08:12 PM

The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one.

That will pop that price right up if they discounted them.

chet · May 15th, 2007, 03:31 PM

Over $1700.00 is way too much for an amp that size for me. JMO
You can't tell me that they can't make it for less money than that. C'mon now....

Joe M · May 15th, 2007, 04:35 PM

"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one."

CancerLeoCam.....where did these statements come from??

fezz parka · May 15th, 2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

the TWeed Deluxe has proven in studios and stages around the world that it is not the physical sized that matters....it is the aural quality of the sonics.

Right on Wally. Here's a video of some guy (fezz something or other) playing a 12 watt Deluxe in a pretty big club. The other guitarist (Dave Rogers of Dave's Guitars) is going through the PA. The little Deluxe isn't. Sorry for the film quality, but you gotta admit, you can hear that little 12 watt amp amongst all that other noise. Just imagine if it had been in the PA.

kludge · May 15th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet

Over $1700.00 is way too much for an amp that size for me. JMO
You can't tell me that they can't make it for less money than that. C'mon now....

Yeah, you can buy a Behringer 4x12 stack with a gazillion watts of power for like $50, and it even has a perfect digital model of a "tweed amp", which will sound JUST LIKE a Tweed Deluxe! Right? Right?

Actually, the digital probably sounds better, because it's digital, and tubes are all distorted and stuff.

greggorypeccary · May 15th, 2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kludge

Yeah, you can buy a Behringer 4x12 stack with a gazillion watts of power for like $50, and it even has a perfect digital model of a "tweed amp", which will sound JUST LIKE a Tweed Deluxe! Right? Right?

Actually, the digital probably sounds better, because it's digital, and tubes are all distorted and stuff.

Reminds me of a guy in college, around '87 or so, trying to convince us that the Expose CD he had was good because "It's digital-digital-digital!" To which my buddy responded, "But it's Expose!"

I love my 5e3, not perfect for all situations, but always killer.

lpacilio · May 15th, 2007, 10:49 PM

"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways."

Hey, CancerLeoCam, that's pure 100% unadultrated BS you're spreading.

The 57 Deluxe is made by Fender in Corona.

getbent · May 15th, 2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet

Over $1700.00 is way too much for an amp that size for me. JMO
You can't tell me that they can't make it for less money than that. C'mon now....

Salma Hayek is 5'2". Rupaul is 6'7". Size is not necessarily the measure of quality.

1700.00 would be more than I would be willing to pay for that amp, but there are a bunch amps that small that I'd happily pay that price... Tone King would be one, an original BF deluxe would be another... and there are probably 20 other amps that I would plunk down that kind of penny for....

Bill · May 15th, 2007, 11:36 PM

Maybe what's hard to justify is that you can get a silverface Twin Reverb for half that price, and it seems like so much more amp for so little money. Which it is.

But tweed is like aural sex.

chet · May 16th, 2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbent

Salma Hayek is 5'2". Rupaul is 6'7". Size is not necessarily the measure of quality.

1700.00 would be more than I would be willing to pay for that amp, but there are a bunch amps that small that I'd happily pay that price... Tone King would be one, an original BF deluxe would be another... and there are probably 20 other amps that I would plunk down that kind of penny for....

I didn't say anything like that. I just said that they could make it for less if they wanted to.

fezz parka · May 16th, 2007, 11:04 AM

If I were to build someone a 5e3 usng a Weber Kit (this is purely hypothetical, I do not build amps for sale), this is a ballpark estimate of what it would cost:

Weber kit = 490.00
10 hours labor @ 45.00 an hour = 450.00
total parts and labor = 940.00

Then there's babysitting it for the first 10 hours of playing it, making sure it all works.
Then there's shipping it, and any applicable sales tax. So add another 100 bucks.
So we're looking at around $1040.00 for an amp that I'm not building for myself.

lpacilio · May 16th, 2007, 11:18 AM

This is a capitalist economy so it's really pretty simple...

If you don't like the product or the price, don't buy it!

chet · May 16th, 2007, 11:29 AM

Yeah, but this is an amp discussion board so we like to discuss new products that are on the market.

fezz parka · May 16th, 2007, 12:04 PM

Amp = good. Talk= good.

1293 · May 16th, 2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Right on Wally. Here's a video of some guy (fezz something or other) playing a 12 watt Deluxe in a pretty big club. The other guitarist (Dave Rogers of Dave's Guitars) is going through the PA. The little Deluxe isn't. Sorry for the film quality, but you gotta admit, you can hear that little 12 watt amp amongst all that other noise. Just imagine if it had been in the PA.

Fezz,

What speaker do you have in that amp?

bazooka47 · May 16th, 2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CancerLeoCam

The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one.

I bought one, and I absolutely love it. In fact, I also own an original 5E3 that has been professionally restored by a well-known amp builder. My recently purchased reissue sounds MUCH better than the original, and I am still running it on "stock" tubes.

Maybe I just got as good one, but I think it is worth every penny.

fezz parka · May 16th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1293

Fezz,

What speaker do you have in that amp?

It's got a Red Fang in it.

Joe M · May 16th, 2007, 04:00 PM

fezz,
How does the Red Fang compare to the stock speaker?

fezz parka · May 16th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Well, mines built from a kit, it's not one of the Fender RI's. I will say that the Red Fang is light years ahead of the SS AlNiCo's that come with the kit, more volume, more bottom, just more of everything while still maintaining the AlNiCo vibe. The one thing about it is that it's a tight fit if you use big bottle 6v6's like JJ's. The tubes will make contact with the bell cover and it can't be removed. I have no trouble with clearance with my NOS RCA's. I wanted to run a Celestion Blue in it, but I worry about the 15 watt rating and burning a $250 speaker...

mad dog · May 16th, 2007, 05:03 PM

At that price, without discounting, I'm not sure how Fender will compete. Not sure what Victoria's 20112 is going for, but Michael Clark's Beaufort with the Blue is under 1400.

There are so many high-quality, very competitive examples of tweed deluxe types around ... I fail to see a compelling reason to give Fender the business at substantially higher prices.

telel6s · May 16th, 2007, 05:05 PM

I haven't played a new Fender 5E3, but I don't doubt that it's a good (great) sounding amp. And I don't want to fault anyone else for spending their amp money where they see fit. However, I think my money could be spent better elsewhere.

With the kits and kit-builders out there, you can get what is arguably just as good of an amp for a lot less money. Now, one could argue that with the Fender you get the brand name, waranty, support, etc. that a kit-builder likely does not provide. So lets take a bit more apples-to-apples look at what some other companies can provide in a 1x12 configuration:

Dr. Z Carmen Ghia 1x12 combo: $1229
Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. 1x12 Combo: $1629
Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1429
Dr. Z MAZ-38 Sr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1599
Dr. Z Z-28 1x12 combo: $1479
Allen Sweet Spot 1x12 combo: $1,499
Allen Accomplice Jr. 1x12 combo: $1,449
Allen Brown Sugar 1x12 combo: $1,599
Allen Old Flame 1x12 combo: $1,599
Winfield Amps: Winfield EL84 18 watt combo: $850 (plus the speaker)
Winfield Amps: Winfield 6V6 combo: $1150 (plus the speaker)
Winfield Amps: Brat 6v6 compbo: $840 (plus the speaker)

A comparison like that makes me feel that the Fender is over-priced by several hundred dollars.

chet · May 16th, 2007, 05:14 PM

Those other companies don't have the distribution etc. to get thier product out en masse to all the stores like Fender does either.

telel6s · May 16th, 2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet

Those other companies don't have the distribution etc. to get thier product out en masse to all the stores like Fender does either.

Chet, I'm not sure if you are in favor of or against my comparison shopping list. I agree with your statement....but I don't see how that adds to the value/cost that I should have to pay for the amp. If anything, that could mean higher volume sales and then perhaps a lowering of price.

And while I have no evidence to back this next statement up, I would think that most people who are looking at spending almost $1700 on an amp would be aware of brands beyond those at GC, Sam Ash or the other big stores. Dr. Z, at the least, can be found in a number of standard retail outlets.

As mentioned above -- partly tongue-in-cheek -- the 5E3 is a pretty simple amp to spend that kind of money on. It would be a hard sell to someone who didn't understand it. Trying to upsell someone who came in looking for a DRRI, AC-15CC or similar would be tough.

sax4blues · May 16th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Brand recognition plays a big part in pricing. This is a business fact whether we agree with it or not. There are many people that buy expensive music gear that are not boutique shoppers. They go to their local store and survey the major brands (Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa, ...) and are comfortable selecting a product in their price range from this typically in stock selection. I have several friends that purchased $1000 - $1700 amps from these name manufacturers, they did not look at any other brands, and they are happy with their selection. These same people may not be comfortable buying from a company that doesn't have local dealers with good on floor stock.

These people are Fenders market and Fender offers a great range of products priced to what people will pay. The Tweed Deluxe is just one product in that range.

With the list of Dr.Z to Winfield amps could we not say that Dr.Z is overpriced? The difference is probably Dr.Z growing brand value/recognition.

CancerLeoCam · May 16th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpacilio

"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways."

Hey, CancerLeoCam, that's pure 100% unadultrated BS you're spreading.

The 57 Deluxe is made by Fender in Corona.

Please, it's my opinion/prediction-BS or not. If it is made by Fender fine. I have heard otherwise and I'm not attempting to provide grist for the rumour mill. If that "take" makes you uncomfortable my apologies. There was no "agenda" to seed a rumour-trolling, etc.

RetroJoe · May 16th, 2007, 07:37 PM

I have several tube amps from 4 to 135 watts and IMHO, never have so many done so much with 3 knobs. If you haven't played a Deluxe or a true clone and used every possible combination of the 3 knobs (the 2 volumes are interactive and cathode-bias emphasizes the 'sweet factor') in each of the inputs, I can safely assert that you are not aware of the tonal possibilities available with this simple circuit. This is not an indictment of the uninitiated, but an invitation to sit down with one, regardless of your style, and play with the knobs. I currently have 14 "working" amps and access to 20 or 30 others at the Robin Amps shop, and I will further assert that most players can't know how good an amp is until he or she has tweaked and fiddled the day away getting to know the amp.

There are so many 5E3 clones and customs out there, and I see the current prices run from about $700 - $4000. I had Paul at Robin Amps build me a 5E9 Tremolux (same as the 5E3, but with trem) using a scrapped Bassman chassis and a Weber Thames alnico 12, a homemade cabinet simlar to a BFVV and it has been my favorite small-club amp for over 6 years. When that seems underpowered, I go for the 4x6V6 tweed twin or the AC30. Next step up is the old Showman or Twin Reverb...no single amp can do everything, but the tweed circuits have a great palette and the 5E3, 5E9 have 15-18 watts of the coolest tone out there...

If creamy woman-tone is more to your liking , what about the 18 watt Marshall (or clones) at $3200??? It's a real killer with the smoothest natural overdrive on the planet. Of course, that's more than I will pay for a semi-boutique production amp...I'll take my tweed circuit any day.

G-P · May 16th, 2007, 08:03 PM

No way I'd spend $50 for an amp that didn't give me the tangibles I want/need.

No way I'd spend $1000 for a 72 50 watt Marshall head, another $500 for a 4x12 cabinet and then another $400-$600 to put decent speakers in it just to have a sound man tell me to turn it down. Let's see, 1000+500+600=$2,100.

I dunno, a 1x12 combo is a whole lot easier to load out at 2:30 AM.

I ain't the size of the wave, it's the motion of the ocean.

lpacilio · May 16th, 2007, 08:16 PM

CancerLeoCam,

What you reference as your "take" are two statements of fact. Both are blatantly false.

"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009.
It's a Victoria anyways."

-------------------------------

This comes directly from Shane Nicholas, Fender's VP for amp marketing.

Once and for all:

Victoria makes nice amps. They DO build the Gretsch amps which FMIC is currently selling.

They do NOT make the '57 Deluxe or any other Fender-branded amp. The '57 Deluxe is built in Corona CA, USA.

And that post which says we'll discontinue it in 2009? *I* don't even know that, and I'm the one who gets to decide.

:)

Shane

-------------------------------

I worked as a journalist for close to 30 years. The rule is three sources to verify any fact. What we see on the Internet day in and day out are a bunch of folks who present opinions based on abject ignorance as absolute fact.

chet · May 16th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telel6s

Chet, I'm not sure if you are in favor of or against my comparison shopping list. I agree with your statement....but I don't see how that adds to the value/cost that I should have to pay for the amp. If anything, that could mean higher volume sales and then perhaps a lowering of price.

And while I have no evidence to back this next statement up, I would think that most people who are looking at spending almost $1700 on an amp would be aware of brands beyond those at GC, Sam Ash or the other big stores. Dr. Z, at the least, can be found in a number of standard retail outlets.

As mentioned above -- partly tongue-in-cheek -- the 5E3 is a pretty simple amp to spend that kind of money on. It would be a hard sell to someone who didn't understand it. Trying to upsell someone who came in looking for a DRRI, AC-15CC or similar would be tough.

I'm saying that Fender could charge even less than those companies if they really wanted to. JMHO

G-P · May 16th, 2007, 08:59 PM

I'm pretty sure that Fender did their homework and decided what the market would bare.

Is it likely that the profit margin on the Deluxe is greater than that of the DRRI or SR? Probably.

A couple of things to consider however. The Deluxe is not a PCB amp. Someone has to solder the components into place. I would assume that the Deluxe is being produced in relatively small lots. Sourcing parts and materials is more expensive for a couple thousand units versus tens of thousands of units. Just tooling up/hiring and training for a hand assembled electronic piece of equipment has to have some cost associated with it.

I'm not complaining about the price. I don't complain about the absurd prices Les Pauls are commanding these days. I just don't buy them.

CancerLeoCam · May 16th, 2007, 09:54 PM

lpacilio...last time..it's an opinion and my own personal prognostication.

This is a message board not the NY Times.

Please go chase a politician if you want someone to attack/fight/beat on somebody about facts-there are plenty.

If that doesn't suffice then start attacking everyone here about what they consider "good" musical taste.

YOU took it what I said as a set of facts. I'm not a journalist worried about my reputation. I'm not Dan Rather. I cannot control your brain.

Please, chill yourself out and let it go..

refin · May 16th, 2007, 10:00 PM

I love my old tweed Deluxe....had her recovered and serviced,and she sings purty!

G-P · May 17th, 2007, 02:15 AM

"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways."

Sorry CancerLeo, but when I read your original post I was wondering what inside info you had. You didn't offer these statements explicitly as opinion, so I assumed you were speaking from an informed perspective.

While one is not obligated to proclaim which comments are opinion and which are fact, saying that the deluxe will be discontinued and is a Victoria anyway, warrants clarification as to the authenticity of their basis in fact. That is unless you were just trying to be outrageous, in a humorous way, in which case I would say the humor got lost in the translation.

P-Zilla · May 17th, 2007, 03:10 AM

Hey Fezz dont you also use the Bad Bob on your 5E3 too?

I cant justify Fender's price. But I KNOW For a fact you can build and awesome 5E3 for less than 500 bucks. Heck I built mine for under $400. AND! It only took me about 5 hours.

fezz parka · May 17th, 2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashback

Hey Fezz dont you also use the Bad Bob on your 5E3 too?

Yep, set to 11:00, left on, and thown in back of the amp. I jumper the channels with everything on '7'. Volume is adjusted at the guitar.

IronJoe · May 17th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fezz parka

So we're looking at around $1040.00 for an amp that I'm not building for myself.

Late to the party, but, that sounds about right. It may cost Fender about that much to make the amp. Then add in the cost of marketing, distribution, and sales. Add some profit for Fender and for the music store and all of a sudden 1600-1700 doesn't seem like a stretch. Plus, as I think someone already said, they can charge more because of the brand.

Finally, CancerLeo, no need for a bunch of alphabet soup (IMO, IMHO, JMO, IME, blah, blah, blah) as far as I'm concerned.

May 14th, 2007, 10:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
chet Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 11,893	Saw a Fender Tweed Deluxe this weekend. There was some guy playing another amp right next to it so I didn't try it out. $1679.00. No way I'd pay that much for an amp that little. Should've asked the kid to play through the Tweed Deluxe. __________________ You could be the next internet Superstar!

May 14th, 2007, 05:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
CancerLeoCam Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Riff-raff RSM, CA Posts: 1,775 5 Photos	The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one. __________________ "I'm a man who believes that right is right and wrong is wrong. Treat me right, and I will give you my all. Treat me wrong, and I will give you nothing. They don't like me for that, but that's the way I am."

May 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 6,316	Get someone to build You the Weber Kit. there's always someone on ebay that just completed another one played it for 20 hours to make sure it's cool and wants to sell it so they can build another. From what I gather people who have "the talent" to build 'em get quite addicted to the process of the build and burn-in. Next year when She loosens the purse strings...look out!!! 7 months two weeks three days and counting __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

May 15th, 2007, 03:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
chet Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 11,893	Over $1700.00 is way too much for an amp that size for me. JMO You can't tell me that they can't make it for less money than that. C'mon now.... __________________ You could be the next internet Superstar!

May 15th, 2007, 10:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
lpacilio Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 263	"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways." Hey, CancerLeoCam, that's pure 100% unadultrated BS you're spreading. The 57 Deluxe is made by Fender in Corona. __________________ The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. - Hunter S. Thompson (RIP)

May 14th, 2007, 05:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wally Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 6,444	the TWeed Deluxe has proven in studios and stages around the world that it is not the physical sized that matters....it is the aural quality of the sonics. Cost??? Well, as one post in another thread noted....considering inflation, that new Fender probably costs about what the originals did back in the '50's. Of course, Fender products never were the least expensive option out there, were they? As they say, the proof is in the pudding. those original Tweeds are still chugging along...my '49 kicks butt and takes names. I just sold a recovered/restored '58 to a fellow in INdiana who is more than happy with the expenditure. If Fender did this one correctly, then more power to them. Imho, Billy G and Neil Young among countless others can't be wrong about the little Deluxe.

May 14th, 2007, 08:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
joe c Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 59 Posts: 125	The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one. That will pop that price right up if they discounted them.

May 15th, 2007, 04:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Joe M Moderator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,004	"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways. I have read of several people trying them out since it first appeared but I can't remember anybody posting they actually bought one." CancerLeoCam.....where did these statements come from??

May 15th, 2007, 11:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
Bill Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 3,298 67 Photos	Maybe what's hard to justify is that you can get a silverface Twin Reverb for half that price, and it seems like so much more amp for so little money. Which it is. But tweed is like aural sex. __________________ B i l l B a e c k WilliamBaeck.com

May 16th, 2007, 11:04 AM	#15 (permalink)
fezz parka VENDOR Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 2,157 48 Photos	If I were to build someone a 5e3 usng a Weber Kit (this is purely hypothetical, I do not build amps for sale), this is a ballpark estimate of what it would cost: Weber kit = 490.00 10 hours labor @ 45.00 an hour = 450.00 total parts and labor = 940.00 Then there's babysitting it for the first 10 hours of playing it, making sure it all works. Then there's shipping it, and any applicable sales tax. So add another 100 bucks. So we're looking at around $1040.00 for an amp that I'm not building for myself.

May 16th, 2007, 11:18 AM	#16 (permalink)
lpacilio Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 263	This is a capitalist economy so it's really pretty simple... If you don't like the product or the price, don't buy it! __________________ The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. - Hunter S. Thompson (RIP)

May 16th, 2007, 11:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
chet Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 11,893	Yeah, but this is an amp discussion board so we like to discuss new products that are on the market. __________________ You could be the next internet Superstar!

May 16th, 2007, 12:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
fezz parka VENDOR Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 2,157 48 Photos	Amp = good. Talk= good.

May 16th, 2007, 04:00 PM	#22 (permalink)
Joe M Moderator Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,004	fezz, How does the Red Fang compare to the stock speaker?

May 16th, 2007, 04:50 PM	#23 (permalink)
fezz parka VENDOR Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 2,157 48 Photos	Well, mines built from a kit, it's not one of the Fender RI's. I will say that the Red Fang is light years ahead of the SS AlNiCo's that come with the kit, more volume, more bottom, just more of everything while still maintaining the AlNiCo vibe. The one thing about it is that it's a tight fit if you use big bottle 6v6's like JJ's. The tubes will make contact with the bell cover and it can't be removed. I have no trouble with clearance with my NOS RCA's. I wanted to run a Celestion Blue in it, but I worry about the 15 watt rating and burning a $250 speaker...

May 16th, 2007, 05:03 PM	#24 (permalink)
mad dog Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,128	At that price, without discounting, I'm not sure how Fender will compete. Not sure what Victoria's 20112 is going for, but Michael Clark's Beaufort with the Blue is under 1400. There are so many high-quality, very competitive examples of tweed deluxe types around ... I fail to see a compelling reason to give Fender the business at substantially higher prices.

May 16th, 2007, 05:05 PM	#25 (permalink)
telel6s Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,324 67 Photos	I haven't played a new Fender 5E3, but I don't doubt that it's a good (great) sounding amp. And I don't want to fault anyone else for spending their amp money where they see fit. However, I think my money could be spent better elsewhere. With the kits and kit-builders out there, you can get what is arguably just as good of an amp for a lot less money. Now, one could argue that with the Fender you get the brand name, waranty, support, etc. that a kit-builder likely does not provide. So lets take a bit more apples-to-apples look at what some other companies can provide in a 1x12 configuration: Dr. Z Carmen Ghia 1x12 combo: $1229 Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. 1x12 Combo: $1629 Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1429 Dr. Z MAZ-38 Sr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1599 Dr. Z Z-28 1x12 combo: $1479 Allen Sweet Spot 1x12 combo: $1,499 Allen Accomplice Jr. 1x12 combo: $1,449 Allen Brown Sugar 1x12 combo: $1,599 Allen Old Flame 1x12 combo: $1,599 Winfield Amps: Winfield EL84 18 watt combo: $850 (plus the speaker) Winfield Amps: Winfield 6V6 combo: $1150 (plus the speaker) Winfield Amps: Brat 6v6 compbo: $840 (plus the speaker) A comparison like that makes me feel that the Fender is over-priced by several hundred dollars. __________________ Mama always said, "A little tone is good for the soul." I'm riding in the June 2010 MS150

May 16th, 2007, 05:14 PM	#26 (permalink)
chet Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Jersey Shore Posts: 11,893	Those other companies don't have the distribution etc. to get thier product out en masse to all the stores like Fender does either. __________________ You could be the next internet Superstar!

May 16th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#28 (permalink)
sax4blues Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Jose, CA Age: 52 Posts: 1,056	Brand recognition plays a big part in pricing. This is a business fact whether we agree with it or not. There are many people that buy expensive music gear that are not boutique shoppers. They go to their local store and survey the major brands (Gibson, Fender, Marshall, Mesa, ...) and are comfortable selecting a product in their price range from this typically in stock selection. I have several friends that purchased $1000 - $1700 amps from these name manufacturers, they did not look at any other brands, and they are happy with their selection. These same people may not be comfortable buying from a company that doesn't have local dealers with good on floor stock. These people are Fenders market and Fender offers a great range of products priced to what people will pay. The Tweed Deluxe is just one product in that range. With the list of Dr.Z to Winfield amps could we not say that Dr.Z is overpriced? The difference is probably Dr.Z growing brand value/recognition.

May 16th, 2007, 07:37 PM	#30 (permalink)
RetroJoe TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Florida Age: 58 Posts: 13	I have several tube amps from 4 to 135 watts and IMHO, never have so many done so much with 3 knobs. If you haven't played a Deluxe or a true clone and used every possible combination of the 3 knobs (the 2 volumes are interactive and cathode-bias emphasizes the 'sweet factor') in each of the inputs, I can safely assert that you are not aware of the tonal possibilities available with this simple circuit. This is not an indictment of the uninitiated, but an invitation to sit down with one, regardless of your style, and play with the knobs. I currently have 14 "working" amps and access to 20 or 30 others at the Robin Amps shop, and I will further assert that most players can't know how good an amp is until he or she has tweaked and fiddled the day away getting to know the amp. There are so many 5E3 clones and customs out there, and I see the current prices run from about $700 - $4000. I had Paul at Robin Amps build me a 5E9 Tremolux (same as the 5E3, but with trem) using a scrapped Bassman chassis and a Weber Thames alnico 12, a homemade cabinet simlar to a BFVV and it has been my favorite small-club amp for over 6 years. When that seems underpowered, I go for the 4x6V6 tweed twin or the AC30. Next step up is the old Showman or Twin Reverb...no single amp can do everything, but the tweed circuits have a great palette and the 5E3, 5E9 have 15-18 watts of the coolest tone out there... If creamy woman-tone is more to your liking , what about the 18 watt Marshall (or clones) at $3200??? It's a real killer with the smoothest natural overdrive on the planet. Of course, that's more than I will pay for a semi-boutique production amp...I'll take my tweed circuit any day. __________________ I feel the need for tweed

May 16th, 2007, 08:03 PM	#31 (permalink)
G-P Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PDX Posts: 158	No way I'd spend $50 for an amp that didn't give me the tangibles I want/need. No way I'd spend $1000 for a 72 50 watt Marshall head, another $500 for a 4x12 cabinet and then another $400-$600 to put decent speakers in it just to have a sound man tell me to turn it down. Let's see, 1000+500+600=$2,100. I dunno, a 1x12 combo is a whole lot easier to load out at 2:30 AM. I ain't the size of the wave, it's the motion of the ocean.

May 16th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#32 (permalink)
lpacilio Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 263	CancerLeoCam, What you reference as your "take" are two statements of fact. Both are blatantly false. "The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways." ------------------------------- This comes directly from Shane Nicholas, Fender's VP for amp marketing. Once and for all: Victoria makes nice amps. They DO build the Gretsch amps which FMIC is currently selling. They do NOT make the '57 Deluxe or any other Fender-branded amp. The '57 Deluxe is built in Corona CA, USA. And that post which says we'll discontinue it in 2009? I don't even know that, and I'm the one who gets to decide. :) Shane ------------------------------- I worked as a journalist for close to 30 years. The rule is three sources to verify any fact. What we see on the Internet day in and day out are a bunch of folks who present opinions based on abject ignorance as absolute fact. __________________ The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. - Hunter S. Thompson (RIP)

May 16th, 2007, 08:59 PM	#34 (permalink)
G-P Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PDX Posts: 158	I'm pretty sure that Fender did their homework and decided what the market would bare. Is it likely that the profit margin on the Deluxe is greater than that of the DRRI or SR? Probably. A couple of things to consider however. The Deluxe is not a PCB amp. Someone has to solder the components into place. I would assume that the Deluxe is being produced in relatively small lots. Sourcing parts and materials is more expensive for a couple thousand units versus tens of thousands of units. Just tooling up/hiring and training for a hand assembled electronic piece of equipment has to have some cost associated with it. I'm not complaining about the price. I don't complain about the absurd prices Les Pauls are commanding these days. I just don't buy them.

May 16th, 2007, 09:54 PM	#35 (permalink)
CancerLeoCam Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Riff-raff RSM, CA Posts: 1,775 5 Photos	lpacilio...last time..it's an opinion and my own personal prognostication. This is a message board not the NY Times. Please go chase a politician if you want someone to attack/fight/beat on somebody about facts-there are plenty. If that doesn't suffice then start attacking everyone here about what they consider "good" musical taste. YOU took it what I said as a set of facts. I'm not a journalist worried about my reputation. I'm not Dan Rather. I cannot control your brain. Please, chill yourself out and let it go.. __________________ "I'm a man who believes that right is right and wrong is wrong. Treat me right, and I will give you my all. Treat me wrong, and I will give you nothing. They don't like me for that, but that's the way I am."

May 16th, 2007, 10:00 PM	#36 (permalink)
refin Friend of Leo's Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Age: 54 Posts: 2,606	I love my old tweed Deluxe....had her recovered and serviced,and she sings purty! __________________ "For You,Lord,are good,and ready to forgive,and abundant in mercy to all those who call upon You." Ps. 86:5 http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/refin_music.htm MASTER VOLUME? WHAT'S A MASTER VOLUME?

IMPORTANT:Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult! No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.

May 17th, 2007, 02:15 AM	#37 (permalink)
G-P Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PDX Posts: 158	"The 5E3 Deluxe will be discontinued as a "Fender" by 2009. It's a Victoria anyways." Sorry CancerLeo, but when I read your original post I was wondering what inside info you had. You didn't offer these statements explicitly as opinion, so I assumed you were speaking from an informed perspective. While one is not obligated to proclaim which comments are opinion and which are fact, saying that the deluxe will be discontinued and is a Victoria anyway, warrants clarification as to the authenticity of their basis in fact. That is unless you were just trying to be outrageous, in a humorous way, in which case I would say the humor got lost in the translation.

May 17th, 2007, 03:10 AM	#38 (permalink)
P-Zilla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florence, SC Age: 21 Posts: 1,181	Hey Fezz dont you also use the Bad Bob on your 5E3 too? I cant justify Fender's price. But I KNOW For a fact you can build and awesome 5E3 for less than 500 bucks. Heck I built mine for under $400. AND! It only took me about 5 hours.