Saw a Fender Tweed Deluxe this weekend.

[Telepatio]

So, for example, the Sligo Deluxe is $750. Is it the same amp minus the name?

[chet]

Originally Posted by IronJoe

Late to the party, but, that sounds about right. It may cost Fender about that much to make the amp. Then add in the cost of marketing, distribution, and sales. Add some profit for Fender and for the music store and all of a sudden 1600-1700 doesn't seem like a stretch. Plus, as I think someone already said, they can charge more because of the brand.

Finally, CancerLeo, no need for a bunch of alphabet soup (IMO, IMHO, JMO, IME, blah, blah, blah) as far as I'm concerned.

Fender shouldn't have to charge as much as the small companies because thier connections are already in place. Soldering those components in should've cost an arm and a leg.

[chet]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

If I were to build someone a 5e3 usng a Weber Kit (this is purely hypothetical, I do not build amps for sale), this is a ballpark estimate of what it would cost:

Weber kit = 490.00
10 hours labor @ 45.00 an hour = 450.00
total parts and labor = 940.00

Then there's babysitting it for the first 10 hours of playing it, making sure it all works.
Then there's shipping it, and any applicable sales tax. So add another 100 bucks.
So we're looking at around $1040.00 for an amp that I'm not building for myself.

That's if you use the "Weber kit". They probably have all the parts in bulk as well as the expertise to do it quickly.

[telel6s]

Hmmmm, so at what price does the Fender-brand 5E3 become reasonable to those (like me) who feel it is overpriced at $1679? I don't think that Fender could compete with an outfit like Sligo on bottom line price and still make a profit. Fender has to pay employees and that includes benefits, social security, taxes, etc. The dealer wants to make a profit from the sale as well. On the other hand, I don't think Sligo would have a chance of putting out the number of amps that Fender does. If you are a dealer with cash in hand and asked Fender and Sligo for 50 amps, who do think will get you the amps first?

Personally, I wouldn't be so shocked by a price around $1050-1300. I personally still wouldn't pay it because I know other options, but that wouldn't strike me as being overpriced the way that $1679 does.

[chet]

Originally Posted by G-P

I'm not complaining about the price. I don't complain about the absurd prices Les Pauls are commanding these days. I just don't buy them.

The Les Paul comparison is right. It's about the same thing. I did buy a Les Paul when one of the stores was giving up thier Gibson dealership and got it much cheaper than anywhere else.

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by chet

That's if you use the "Weber kit". They probably have all the parts in bulk as well as the expertise to do it quickly.

It's a hand assembled amp. It takes a minimum of 8 hours for one person to fully assemble a 5e3 chassis.

I suppose it could go a little faster if you had an assembly line going, boards pre-stuffed and wired; chassis with pots, swtiches, jacks, transformers, tube sockets, fuse holder, pilot light, and AC cord already installed; cab covered, lacquered, handle, badge, and glides installed; baffle installed with speaker and lead w/phone plug installed in cab. Fender should have the machine in place to do this, but it still takes one guy to assemble the pieces.

There's a lot that goes on with building an amp.

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by telel6s

With the kits and kit-builders out there, you can get what is arguably just as good of an amp for a lot less money. Now, one could argue that with the Fender you get the brand name, waranty, support, etc. that a kit-builder likely does not provide. So lets take a bit more apples-to-apples look at what some other companies can provide in a 1x12 configuration:

• Dr. Z Carmen Ghia 1x12 combo: $1229
• Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. 1x12 Combo: $1629
• Dr. Z MAZ-18 Jr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1429
• Dr. Z MAZ-38 Sr. "NR" 1x12 Combo: $1599
• Dr. Z Z-28 1x12 combo: $1479
• Allen Sweet Spot 1x12 combo: $1,499
• Allen Accomplice Jr. 1x12 combo: $1,449
• Allen Brown Sugar 1x12 combo: $1,599
• Allen Old Flame 1x12 combo: $1,599
• Winfield Amps: Winfield EL84 18 watt combo: $850 (plus the speaker)
• Winfield Amps: Winfield 6V6 combo: $1150 (plus the speaker)
• Winfield Amps: Brat 6v6 compbo: $840 (plus the speaker)

A comparison like that makes me feel that the Fender is over-priced by several hundred dollars.

This comparison makes sense. For the people to be served properly all manufacturers (big & small) should submit their pricing to a central agency and any extortionist taking more than the lowest price should be exiled.

[1293]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

It's a hand assembled amp. It takes a minimum of 8 hours for one person to fully assemble a 5e3 chassis.

I suppose it could go a little faster if you had an assembly line going, boards pre-stuffed and wired; chassis with pots, swtiches, jacks, transformers, tube sockets, fuse holder, pilot light, and AC cord already installed; cab covered, lacquered, handle, badge, and glides installed; baffle installed with speaker and lead w/phone plug installed in cab. Fender should have the machine in place to do this, but it still takes one guy to assemble the pieces.

There's a lot that goes on with building an amp.

I'm sure Fender can assemble an amp faster than anyone. I had a good chuckle when I saw the 10 hour figure thrown out earlier. My typical amp building session goes like this:

Get parts out and situated: 20 minutes

Work on assembly: 20 minutes (this includes 5 minutes cumulative spent looking for the solder/wire stripper/solder sucker, etc. that I just put down somewhere on the bench a second ago and another 5 minutes distracting the cat from playing with the soldering iron cord)

Putting everything away because the wife just got home: 5 minutes


Even at minimum wage, that Fender is a smokin' deal. It isn't about saving money though, is it?

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by 1293

Putting everything away because the wife just got home: 5 minutes

Made me spit my coffee out!

"What the heck are you doing now!"

[1293]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Made me spit my coffee out!

"What the heck are you doing now!"

"Working"

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by 1293

"Working"

[Bill]

You can build an amp in 40 minutes? Holy smokes.

[fezz parka]

Originally Posted by Bill

You can build an amp in 40 minutes? Holy smokes.

That's nothing. I just found a new tech who can blink one right up:

[greggorypeccary]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

It's a hand assembled amp. It takes a minimum of 8 hours for one person to fully assemble a 5e3 chassis.

There's a lot that goes on with building an amp.

True, but look at the post above by telel6s. Those amps are all hand built, more complicated curcits and are still less expensive.

Not taking sides here, just sayin'.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

That's nothing. I just found a new tech who can blink one right up:

She's about 200 pounds underweight to be any amp tech I ever knew. Oh well, as long as she has the requisite cigarette-and-beer breath.

[68tele]

Reality Check: Fender's re-issue deluxe price is in line with their other re-issue tweeds.

[blues]

Ive said this on a few threads about the deluxe.If you consider the prices that original deluxes from the 50s are going for,they are not a bad deal.IF you are a player,not a collecter.By the time you pay for the amp,and maybe the speaker is shot,along with a cap job,tubes ect.So if you have to have the fender name,the new tweed is a good price.Now with that price,like alot of the posts say,you could build one cheaper.You could also go the used route and get a for instance a victoria bassman for 1300-1500 bucks.I owned a 53 wide panal deluxe for a while,I had to replace the speaker,some tubes,needed a cap job.I had the tube sockets replaced.Never again.

[BrianF]

Originally Posted by blues

Ive said this on a few threads about the deluxe.If you consider the prices that original deluxes from the 50s are going for,they are not a bad deal.IF you are a player,not a collecter.By the time you pay for the amp,and maybe the speaker is shot,along with a cap job,tubes ect.So if you have to have the fender name,the new tweed is a good price.Now with that price,like alot of the posts say,you could build one cheaper.You could also go the used route and get a for instance a victoria bassman for 1300-1500 bucks.I owned a 53 wide panal deluxe for a while,I had to replace the speaker,some tubes,needed a cap job.I had the tube sockets replaced.Never again.

If I was in the market for one I'd buy a Fender... that said.. I have a home brew I made from scratch and it sounds killer. Mercury Mag transformers, Eminence Cannabis Rex speaker...really sounds great in this amp...

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by blues

Ive said this on a few threads about the deluxe.If you consider the prices that original deluxes from the 50s are going for,they are not a bad deal, if you are a player,not a collecter. By the time you pay for the amp,and maybe the speaker is shot, along with a cap job, tubes ect. So if you have to have the fender name, the new tweed is a good price. Now with that price, like alot of the posts say, you could build one cheaper.

Much of this thread has revolved around the premise that the Fender is overpriced because a person could build their own amp for much less. This makes sense for this forum of musicians that are deeply involved in their craft. But I wonder what percentage of amps used are built by the owner? My guess is the majority of people (99%-myself included) do not want to build an amp. Just as I have a guy at my house installing a floor today for $1400. There are people that will tell me thats way too high because I could do it myself for $600. But I'm not a floor guy and I'm not an electrical guy. The comparison between builders is valid to decide what value the Fender logo has to the buyer.

[CancerLeoCam]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

Just as I have a guy at my house installing a floor today for $1400. There are people that will tell me thats way too high because I could do it myself for $600. But I'm not a floor guy and I'm not an electrical guy. The comparison between builders is valid to decide what value the Fender logo has to the buyer.

Bravo! Well said.

[chet]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

Much of this thread has revolved around the premise that the Fender is overpriced because a person could build their own amp for much less. This makes sense for this forum of musicians that are deeply involved in their craft. But I wonder what percentage of amps used are built by the owner? My guess is the majority of people (99%-myself included) do not want to build an amp. Just as I have a guy at my house installing a floor today for $1400. There are people that will tell me thats way too high because I could do it myself for $600. But I'm not a floor guy and I'm not an electrical guy. The comparison between builders is valid to decide what value the Fender logo has to the buyer.

I'm saying that they could charge less if they really wanted to.

[fezz parka]

I just built this for a friend. It took two days, working 5 hours each day, to get a working chassis. It took seven weeks to get the cab, which got here this morning. It took about ten minutes (after spending ten minutes unpacking the thing) to put the speaker in the cab, and mount the chassis.