Champion 600 arrived today. A review

[Telecashter]

My Champion 600 finally arrived today after an almost 2 month wait

Here is my review.....drum roll please.

Part 1: Fresh out of the box (stock)

First thing I noticed was my box had been opened and resealed, looks like it happened after it shipped from MF. The shipping label was cut down the middle of the top of the box. Everything seems ok though.

Second, it smells like gasoline. Not too bad but odd.

Third, it is a very nice cabinet for the money. Really looks nice in the living room of my shoebox of an apt.

Now for the important part, sound.

First off, it sounded very weak until the volume is set to 5, which seemed like the perfect setting, cranked it doesn't really have that sweet crunch you would expect from a Champ. Perfect size for a small apt though.

Between one and five it was very clean, but wimpy, colorless and sterile sounding. It had me wondering if a pedal might be needed to add some color.

Part two (Tubes)

I removed the stock tubes. Unlike a Pro Jr or a Blues Jr which has or at least used to come stock with GrooveTubes, the 600 came with 2 unmarked tubes that just day "Made IN China" on them. Looking at the 6V6 my limited experience from my old days of playing and owning Champs was that this is not a true 6V6. The metal case for the 12AX7, had some kind of goop in it that made it almost impossible to remove, I was in danger of ripping the socket out. The sockets are very cheap, but hey it's an inexpensive amp.

I replaced the tubes with a new Tung-Sol 12AX7 and a NOS Brimar 6V6 from KCA Tubes. One thing to note is the Brimar is a HUGE 6V6 and ir just a hair from actually resting on the speaker magnet. This might not be a good idea and I would recommend a normal size 6V6 instead.

The results with the new tubes? UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVABLE!!
I am in shock at the difference different tubes made

The amp is fuller and warmer. A huge noticable difference in the bass response and reduction of shrill. Completely different amp to my ears.

Between one and five it is a clean but warm sound that is just perfect for this tiny apt. The crunch when turned up is pure Rock&Roll.

I am very happy right now. I am concerned about that tubes internal parts being so close to the magnetic field of the speaker. Any Tech heads have any insight to this? I seem to recall in one of my old SF Champs, my Tech talked me into removing the Weber Alnico for a Jensen Ceramic because of the proximity of the tube to the magnet. That was 10 years ago and I'm foggy to the specifics of why.

Part 3 ( speaking of the speaker )
I have a Weber 6" replacement speaker for this. The only one Weber makes and is intended as a direct replacement for original vintage Champions.

I havn't tried it yet, one of the speaker screws is directly behind the very small and cheap looking transformer. it looks like I can unscrew the 2 screws holding the transformer to get to the screw to remove the speaker....I'm just not in a mood to do this right now...i.e. I'm a little scared to try.

In the nxt couple of days I'll report back after I change the speaker, generally speaking I think this speaker is probably pretty good but if it's half the improvement the tubes were, this will be one sweet sounding amp.

So my review is this....Stock= mediocre but still very good for the $199 no tax/no shipping I paid for it. Invest in some good replacement tubes= a damn good amp that is perfect for my needs at this point.

Sorry for rambling, I hope this helps anyone considering this amp.

[aznrambo481]

that's cool. It's nice to know that with a simple tube swap one can greatly change that reputation I seem to have of that from the stock reviews. Hope the speaker swap goes well.

[Tdot]

I want one!

[studio1087]

Thanks. I've been waiting for someone to post some comments.

[BarnesTO]

Good to hear that a tube swap made such an improvement. I saw one in my local store yesterday and was thinking about going in and giving the guy 50 bones to hold onto it for a month or so....we'll see....

[Tdot]

I just looked at Eurotubes and two new tubes would only be about $20.

[Telecashter]

Okay, I couldn't wait. I changed the speaker to the Weber.

I am VERY happy with the results.


So my advice to all the curious would be that this amp is worth a try, you don't have to go crazy on the 6V6 like I did or go for the Weber. A JJ 6V6 and 12AX7 won't set you back much. Heck, the Weber was only $25.

All in all this cost me just under $300 and if it holds up, I feel comfortable saying this idea was a good one that exceeded my expectations. I still hope to get another Victoria Champ like the one I owned many years ago....eventually. And if you're willing to spend a little more for a Marsh Champ, that may be the way to go....I've thought about that too because it seems like almost the exact parts that are in a Victoria for half the price.

It's my opinion that buying a used 60's or 70's Champ doesn't make sense anymore and always ends up costing too much by the time you spend the money on a recap, 3 prong cord, good tubes and a Weber speaker. You end up with a great sounding $600 amp that usually still looks like old and crusty. I know I did this once, and when I got the Victoria I never wanted to use the 70's Champ again anyway. I like the Tweed circuit much better.

Jeez, I almost feel like I know what I'm talking about. Now to learn a few more notes and chords.

But I digress, I think for $199 plus figure another $25 for a set of new JJ tubes and you'll like this amp a lot. Go for the Weber if you can.

I love it when a plan comes through

[slideman]

Telecashter,

Good to hear that so far you relatively satisfied with the Champ. So far, I really like what I'm hearing as well. Interestingly, I find mine to be very warm on the low-end -- a really nice smooth tone when overdriven -- using both a JV Strat and a 50's Classic Tele. I don't have any shrillness at all -- and the amp has no grittiness -- it's really smooth and musical.

I agree with you that the volume doesn't really get up there until around the half-way mark -- I've been setting the amp volume on around 10 and working the rest from the guitars. So far I've been quite impressed.

There is one issue -- I have a hum going on (regardless of where the volume pot is) -- not as annoying as the notorious PJ hum, but still there. Maybe I need to let the tubes start cooking for awhile and see how things go.

I'll keep posting if anything else pops up... but it's worth the $199 in my opinion.

[Guitarslinger1]

A couple of thoughts:

"First thing I noticed was my box had been opened and resealed, looks like it happened after it shipped from MF. The shipping label was cut down the middle of the top of the box. Everything seems ok though."

Just Homeland Security rifling through your mail. Nothing to be alarmed about...

Cheesy tubes = cheesy tone

Don't unscrew the transformer screws to remove/install the speaker; unscrew and remove the entire chassis.

[CancerLeoCam]

Originally Posted by specialty guitars

...unscrew and remove the entire chassis.

That alone may invalidate your warranty-check it out before you do it.

[Big Tony]

Thanks for the review, Telecashter!

I'm glad that it turned out alright, after the tube & speaker swap.

Congratulations on your new amp.

/ Tony

[austintele]

rock and roll.....thanks for the review; helpful and (going to be)costly! {;>)

[Guitarslinger1]

Originally Posted by CancerLeoCam

That alone may invalidate your warranty-check it out before you do it.

Originally Posted by Telecashter

it looks like I can unscrew the 2 screws holding the transformer to get to the screw to remove the speaker....I'm just not in a mood to do this right now...i.e. I'm a little scared to try.

and that?

[quackerz]

Originally Posted by specialty guitars

and that?

" The metal case for the 12AX7, had some kind of goop in it that made it almost impossible to remove "

Yes, the ol' warranty-voiding tamper-evident goop!

And that too.

[250Keith]

Were can I look at these amps can somebody post a link please.
Thanks Keith.

[Joe M]

Here you go....


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=485054

[250Keith]

Thanks for the link, I found the search tab and found some pic, and some comments, looks like this amp can handle some upgrades, but not alot, I just found a fender dealer about four blocks down the road that I never knew was back there so off I go.
Thanks Keith

[stevieboy]

Originally Posted by 250Keith

Thanks for the link, I found the search tab and found some pic, and some comments, looks like this amp can handle some upgrades, but not alot, I just found a fender dealer about four blocks down the road that I never knew was back there so off I go.
Thanks Keith

Of course any excuse is a good one to go to a music store, but I don't think many stores have it in stock yet.

[Telecashter]

Originally Posted by slideman

Telecashter,

There is one issue -- I have a hum going on (regardless of where the volume pot is) -- not as annoying as the notorious PJ hum, but still there. Maybe I need to let the tubes start cooking for awhile and see how things go.

I'll keep posting if anything else pops up... but it's worth the $199 in my opinion.

Yeah, mine has that too. Actually, the hum was reduced by the tube swap slightly and it really wasn't bad anyway. My Victoria Champ had it also, doesn't bug me at all.

I implore you to change the tubes in yours and get back to us with your thoughts.

[Jaybird]

Interesting reviews. Is this a PTP amp ? or is it a PC board circuit? I always say if you can't work on your own amp because the warranty may be voided, It's an amp I don't need.

[Bill]

Some of the old 50's Champs took a 3.2 Ohm speaker. (My '59 Princeton does, for instance.)

So if the Weber is a replacement for this, what Ohm speaker does your Champion 600 take? I wouldn't be suprised if it takes an 8 Ohm speaker. Could be an unhealthy swap.

[Telecashter]

This is from the Weber site describing the speaker I put in.

Replacement for Oxford 6EV in tweed Champs and other amps using 6" speakers
6", 16oz ceramic magnet, 15 watt, 1" voice coil, smooth cone.
Warm, crunchy, early breakup, aggressive.
Will fit in early tweed Champ (w/6" speaker).

It is available in 4 or 8 ohms. I ordered the 4ohm one which is what the stock speaker in my new amp was.

Thanks for looking out though

[cg73cmc]

Thanks for this review! I've been wondering about these little amps - wish they had been around when I was in the Navy trying to play aboard ship. My Blues Jr. did a great job - but it still had to be cranked to get a really good tone. Sounds like the 600 would have been a sweeter deal.

And don't worry about how much money you spend on it. That's half the fun of owning it! Hehe.

[chet]

Good thread- I read on another forum that this amp was disappointingly weak sounding.