Vellocette or Ampeg J12R?

3StringGuitar · October 16th, 2006, 07:23 PM

Which should I buy? Hah, I've played on both and they seem to have their ups and downs. I mostly play P90 equipped guitars and will hopefully be getting a 62' reissue Tele in the near future, I've been looking at the Muddy Waters signature ones too.. I'm selling off my Sovtek, it's just too big and loud for anything practical. So I've narrowed it down to these two amps, I like the sound of cranked EL84's and 15 watts seems to be the perfect volume for live shows and rehearsal.

I've heard very mixed reviews about the Trace Elliot Vellocette, problems with the output transformer and the tubes running hot, even a story about the tube sockets melting; I believe they are board mounted too.

The Ampeg seems to get good reviews. I'm talking of the reissue, not the II just the regular J12R. I love reverb so that's a big plus; although I don't believe the amp has any extension cabinet output on it which is a little disappointing. Is having the 12" vs. the 10" of the Velocette that big of a difference? Has anyone here played both of them too?

KC · October 16th, 2006, 08:12 PM

bothg cool amps. I've had a Gibson Goldtone GA-15 for a few years now, like it, never had a bit of trouble with it. The transformer issues with the Velocette were rumored to be fixed when Gibson took the amp over. No master volume and a far cry from a bedroom amp when cranked. There's also a GA15RV with a 12" speaker and reverb, never played one of these, though.

Played the Ampeg a few years ago, when they first came back out with them, and I thought it was a really good-sounding amp -- the one I played had a killer tremolo, too. I was politely warned off the amp by the shop owner, a friend, who said they had reliability issues. The one I played had a bad cabinet rattle, too. Maybe they've gotten their act together.

The thing I like about the GA15 is that it's got a lot of character -- looks different, sounds different, the controls are in the wrong place. But the one-volume one-tone knob approach forces me to quit dinking with the amp, turn it up and go. I like it.

3StringGuitar · October 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM

Thanks, yeah simplicity is one of my keys. I was actually toying with the idea of a Fender Musicmaster but I want something with that EL84 fuzzy crunch to it. I've heard actually the same thing, that the Ampegs had a mysterious rattle to them. I suppose I could look into the G15RV, never thought about that, I do own an outboard reverb effect, one of those old Univox ones, kind of wish it had a deeper sound to it but for that trashy garage sound it's perfect. It’s a bonus that the Vellocette is so small and compact, I never thought the positions of the knobs were that bad, reminds me of a vintage amp, like a Supro or something. I really want something I can just crank up and play; I’m not a fan of master volumes. When I play live I only use a fuzz pedal if anything.

Tim Armstrong · October 16th, 2006, 09:48 PM

As I recall, the transformer issue with Velocettes was limited to one batch of transformers early in production, and wasn't a problem with most of them (in other words, it wasn't a design problem, it was a QC problem with a vendor). The bad transformers are undoubtedly all long since fried or replaced!

There was a Velocette with reverb and a 12" speaker, too.

Cheers, Tim

Brick · October 16th, 2006, 11:05 PM

I've had the 10" version for a while and it does the EL84 grind pretty well. Tube life is relatively short as the amp pushes them pretty hard. I'd like to run it into a 4X12 cab someday. If you like it simple and portable it may be the amp for you. You should be able to pick one up at a reasonable price. Gibson missed the boat by pricing them way too high when new, so they didn't sell that many of them. Watch out for the power cord comming unplugged at the amp.

3StringGuitar · October 17th, 2006, 01:42 AM

Thanks for the input, I'm glad to hear they got the transformer problem worked out though. There's a Vellocette I'm looking to pick up soon actually. I agree I think it may be just the amp for me. The Black Keys guitarist has a great sound I love and I know he uses an Ampeg so that was one reason I was looking into it. I think the Vellocette could be on the bright side of things but I normally play with my mids and treble cranked so maybe it’ll work out in the end. I have a 4x10 I plan on running it thru, do it cut off the main speaker, or does anyone know if it does, I don't believe so but thought I'd ask.

Tim Bowen · October 17th, 2006, 03:33 AM

I have a Trace Elliot Vellocette with the stock Celestion 10". It's finished in Hunter Green, and is extremely cute and art-deco/retro. When it's working, it truly sounds great. As pushed hard with a P90-loaded SG or LP, it's one of the fattest, throatiest sounding amps for nasty slide guitar tones that I've encountered.

I bought my TE as new, right about the time that the Gibby legal transaction was going down. The transformer cashed in its chips within a month of limited use; fortunately for myself, Gibson honored the warranty and replaced the OT at no cost to me. I have never gigged this amp... I've brought it along for a couple of low key party-type living room jams, and have employed it for maybe a dozen sessions... in other words, this amp has very low hours as used by me, and yet, the replacement transformer barely outlasted that which it initially replaced... I did a session recently, with my compensation being akin to the old school barter method - for my work, the TE's OT would be replaced, and the amp would be diagnosed, as overseen by the project leader.

We'll see if the third time's a charm, or whether this amp is mostly a cute little green paper weight. It's funny, folks talk about the reliability of VOX amps, but my VOX amps have been the veritable Rock of Gibralter, as compared to the little TE. I've only played Ampegs briefly, no substantial real world experience here.

PaulR · October 17th, 2006, 01:26 PM

I had the Vellocette. It's the ONE amp I have had that I regret selling. Mine was hunter green with a stock speaker and had the "good" transformer. From what I have heard, it is the bright, shiny one. To me, it had a great sound and I love cranked EL84s. Simple design that does the job. I would get another in a heartbeat if it came along and I had the dough. Good luck with your decision.

PaulR

Tim Armstrong · October 17th, 2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3StringGuitar

I have a 4x10 I plan on running it thru, do it cut off the main speaker, or does anyone know if it does, I don't believe so but thought I'd ask.

I believe it does, but I'm not positive.

However, I seem to remember that you have to use a 16 ohm cab, otherwise trouble WILL ensue!

Cheers, Tim

dogcityrocker · October 17th, 2006, 02:24 PM

I have an Ampeg J12R reissue. Bought it 3-4 years ago used, so Im not positive when it was made.

The usefulness of this amp (as with any amp) really depends on the kind of music you wish to play. I purchased this amp after playing a Hwy 1 tele (which I ended up buying as well) though it. Beautiful clean tones. It has some break up at mid-high volumes, enough for country/blues music. I have tried several overdrive and distortion pedals and never reallly found the gritty rock tones I was seeking.

That said, I used this amp at least 2 hours a week for 3-4 years and it never failed me. Alot of folks complain about the cabinet rattling, but I never had a problem.

My version has 12 decible boost. The boost is WAY too much for lead work. No matter what volume the amp is set at, the boost function will blow every other band mate off stage. I always played with the boost function on, reducing the volume at the amp, to help create an earlier tube break-up.

So, the ampeg is great for clean and light overdriven tones. You have to really work on getting a mid-heavy rock tone outof her, and metal is out of the question.

I find that many of the reviews of this amp on Harmony Central are spot on. You'll see that blues players give it much higher reviews than wannabe rock gods.

3StringGuitar · October 17th, 2006, 06:14 PM

Well after looking around it looks like the guy from the Black Keys uses an Ampeg Gemini which is 6L6 driven. Never the less I like the sound of EL84's. I guess all I can do it pickup a Vellocette and hope it lasts me. I don't mind the tubes burning out fast, I normally keep a small stock pile of them around anyways so that's no problem.

Thanks for letting me know about the drive on the Ampeg J12. I play mostly a mix of Chicago blues with a kind of lofi garage sound mixed it, we do do a few ska numbers and such but I always like some grit and drive even for my clean sound so it all works out in the end. I can live with out the reverb, like I said I have an outboard Univox I like a lot. From what I've heard the Vellocette takes pedals very well, I'm not a huge effects freak but I almost always have a fuzz, right now it's either my Boss FZ3 or FZ2, or my Death By Audio Fuzz Gun.

Looks like all there's left for me to do it take the plunge and get the Vellocette and hope it works out. I'm glad to hear with P90's it produces a thick sound. You always seem to hear that it's a very bright amp and it's always been my personal choice to have the mids and highs cranked and to adjust the bass to taste; so this amp should be fun to work with, given it only has one tone knob heh. Worst comes to worst I suppose an EQ pedal would straighten things out.

Big Steve · October 17th, 2006, 07:37 PM

I have the Ampeg J12R. I like it a lot. I put NOS tubes and a Weber 12F150 into it. I sounds very good for Chicago Blues. If you put pedals in front of it, it can do rock. It sounds really good and full at low volume. I play it at home every day. Cranked it gets a nice bluesy overdrive. The tone is a little bit on the dark side. I love it. I have 11 amps and the Ampeg gets played the most becuase it is the one I have right next to my couch. I have a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia which is louder and more of a rock voicing. But I still like my little Ampeg.

3StringGuitar · October 18th, 2006, 12:58 AM

Hey Big Steve, the overdrive on the J12R is more gritty then fuzzy isn't it? Just curious, it seems the Vellocette has more of a fuzz sound when driven as opposed to breaking up sound; just curious how the J12R rings in with that. I kind of like my single notes to have a fuzz sound to them but still be clear. Like I said I only really use fuzz pedals when it comes to rhythm work. The FZ3 with the fuzz set low and the volume set high going into an overdriven amp just sounds amazing in my opinion.

Edit-Does the J12R have a speaker out on it?

Big Steve · October 18th, 2006, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3StringGuitar

Hey Big Steve, the overdrive on the J12R is more gritty then fuzzy isn't it? Just curious, it seems the Vellocette has more of a fuzz sound when driven as opposed to breaking up sound; just curious how the J12R rings in with that. I kind of like my single notes to have a fuzz sound to them but still be clear. Like I said I only really use fuzz pedals when it comes to rhythm work. The FZ3 with the fuzz set low and the volume set high going into an overdriven amp just sounds amazing in my opinion.

Edit-Does the J12R have a speaker out on it?

I would say it is gritty. But I would also say I have fairly low gain preamp tubes in it. If you wanted it fuzzy you could probably get it there with the right preamp tubes. A Bad Monkey overdrive in from of it get it into the fuzzy territory.

October 16th, 2006, 07:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
3StringGuitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 623	Vellocette or Ampeg J12R? Which should I buy? Hah, I've played on both and they seem to have their ups and downs. I mostly play P90 equipped guitars and will hopefully be getting a 62' reissue Tele in the near future, I've been looking at the Muddy Waters signature ones too.. I'm selling off my Sovtek, it's just too big and loud for anything practical. So I've narrowed it down to these two amps, I like the sound of cranked EL84's and 15 watts seems to be the perfect volume for live shows and rehearsal. I've heard very mixed reviews about the Trace Elliot Vellocette, problems with the output transformer and the tubes running hot, even a story about the tube sockets melting; I believe they are board mounted too. The Ampeg seems to get good reviews. I'm talking of the reissue, not the II just the regular J12R. I love reverb so that's a big plus; although I don't believe the amp has any extension cabinet output on it which is a little disappointing. Is having the 12" vs. the 10" of the Velocette that big of a difference? Has anyone here played both of them too? __________________ "I've got a beat up Silvertone amp I plug it in and it sounds like a champ It's not a Fender Tweed Deluxe It only cost me a couple o' bucks" Last edited by 3StringGuitar; October 16th, 2006 at 07:56 PM.

October 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
3StringGuitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 623	Thanks, yeah simplicity is one of my keys. I was actually toying with the idea of a Fender Musicmaster but I want something with that EL84 fuzzy crunch to it. I've heard actually the same thing, that the Ampegs had a mysterious rattle to them. I suppose I could look into the G15RV, never thought about that, I do own an outboard reverb effect, one of those old Univox ones, kind of wish it had a deeper sound to it but for that trashy garage sound it's perfect. It’s a bonus that the Vellocette is so small and compact, I never thought the positions of the knobs were that bad, reminds me of a vintage amp, like a Supro or something. I really want something I can just crank up and play; I’m not a fan of master volumes. When I play live I only use a fuzz pedal if anything. __________________ "I've got a beat up Silvertone amp I plug it in and it sounds like a champ It's not a Fender Tweed Deluxe It only cost me a couple o' bucks"

October 16th, 2006, 09:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 9,702	As I recall, the transformer issue with Velocettes was limited to one batch of transformers early in production, and wasn't a problem with most of them (in other words, it wasn't a design problem, it was a QC problem with a vendor). The bad transformers are undoubtedly all long since fried or replaced! There was a Velocette with reverb and a 12" speaker, too. Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

October 16th, 2006, 11:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brick Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Jose Age: 58 Posts: 787	Goldtone I've had the 10" version for a while and it does the EL84 grind pretty well. Tube life is relatively short as the amp pushes them pretty hard. I'd like to run it into a 4X12 cab someday. If you like it simple and portable it may be the amp for you. You should be able to pick one up at a reasonable price. Gibson missed the boat by pricing them way too high when new, so they didn't sell that many of them. Watch out for the power cord comming unplugged at the amp.

October 17th, 2006, 01:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
3StringGuitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 623	Thanks for the input, I'm glad to hear they got the transformer problem worked out though. There's a Vellocette I'm looking to pick up soon actually. I agree I think it may be just the amp for me. The Black Keys guitarist has a great sound I love and I know he uses an Ampeg so that was one reason I was looking into it. I think the Vellocette could be on the bright side of things but I normally play with my mids and treble cranked so maybe it’ll work out in the end. I have a 4x10 I plan on running it thru, do it cut off the main speaker, or does anyone know if it does, I don't believe so but thought I'd ask. __________________ "I've got a beat up Silvertone amp I plug it in and it sounds like a champ It's not a Fender Tweed Deluxe It only cost me a couple o' bucks"

October 16th, 2006, 08:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
KC Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Missoula, Montana Posts: 1,232 15 Photos	bothg cool amps. I've had a Gibson Goldtone GA-15 for a few years now, like it, never had a bit of trouble with it. The transformer issues with the Velocette were rumored to be fixed when Gibson took the amp over. No master volume and a far cry from a bedroom amp when cranked. There's also a GA15RV with a 12" speaker and reverb, never played one of these, though. Played the Ampeg a few years ago, when they first came back out with them, and I thought it was a really good-sounding amp -- the one I played had a killer tremolo, too. I was politely warned off the amp by the shop owner, a friend, who said they had reliability issues. The one I played had a bad cabinet rattle, too. Maybe they've gotten their act together. The thing I like about the GA15 is that it's got a lot of character -- looks different, sounds different, the controls are in the wrong place. But the one-volume one-tone knob approach forces me to quit dinking with the amp, turn it up and go. I like it.

October 17th, 2006, 03:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
Tim Bowen Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Age: 48 Posts: 3,321	I have a Trace Elliot Vellocette with the stock Celestion 10". It's finished in Hunter Green, and is extremely cute and art-deco/retro. When it's working, it truly sounds great. As pushed hard with a P90-loaded SG or LP, it's one of the fattest, throatiest sounding amps for nasty slide guitar tones that I've encountered. I bought my TE as new, right about the time that the Gibby legal transaction was going down. The transformer cashed in its chips within a month of limited use; fortunately for myself, Gibson honored the warranty and replaced the OT at no cost to me. I have never gigged this amp... I've brought it along for a couple of low key party-type living room jams, and have employed it for maybe a dozen sessions... in other words, this amp has very low hours as used by me, and yet, the replacement transformer barely outlasted that which it initially replaced... I did a session recently, with my compensation being akin to the old school barter method - for my work, the TE's OT would be replaced, and the amp would be diagnosed, as overseen by the project leader. We'll see if the third time's a charm, or whether this amp is mostly a cute little green paper weight. It's funny, folks talk about the reliability of VOX amps, but my VOX amps have been the veritable Rock of Gibralter, as compared to the little TE. I've only played Ampegs briefly, no substantial real world experience here. __________________ "Everyone is different in how they learn, but for me, it's turning the pegs and just playing." - BB

October 17th, 2006, 01:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
PaulR Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Upper left corner of the lower 48 Posts: 190	I had the Vellocette. It's the ONE amp I have had that I regret selling. Mine was hunter green with a stock speaker and had the "good" transformer. From what I have heard, it is the bright, shiny one. To me, it had a great sound and I love cranked EL84s. Simple design that does the job. I would get another in a heartbeat if it came along and I had the dough. Good luck with your decision. PaulR

October 17th, 2006, 02:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
dogcityrocker Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 400	I have an Ampeg J12R reissue. Bought it 3-4 years ago used, so Im not positive when it was made. The usefulness of this amp (as with any amp) really depends on the kind of music you wish to play. I purchased this amp after playing a Hwy 1 tele (which I ended up buying as well) though it. Beautiful clean tones. It has some break up at mid-high volumes, enough for country/blues music. I have tried several overdrive and distortion pedals and never reallly found the gritty rock tones I was seeking. That said, I used this amp at least 2 hours a week for 3-4 years and it never failed me. Alot of folks complain about the cabinet rattling, but I never had a problem. My version has 12 decible boost. The boost is WAY too much for lead work. No matter what volume the amp is set at, the boost function will blow every other band mate off stage. I always played with the boost function on, reducing the volume at the amp, to help create an earlier tube break-up. So, the ampeg is great for clean and light overdriven tones. You have to really work on getting a mid-heavy rock tone outof her, and metal is out of the question. I find that many of the reviews of this amp on Harmony Central are spot on. You'll see that blues players give it much higher reviews than wannabe rock gods.

October 17th, 2006, 06:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
3StringGuitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 623	Well after looking around it looks like the guy from the Black Keys uses an Ampeg Gemini which is 6L6 driven. Never the less I like the sound of EL84's. I guess all I can do it pickup a Vellocette and hope it lasts me. I don't mind the tubes burning out fast, I normally keep a small stock pile of them around anyways so that's no problem. Thanks for letting me know about the drive on the Ampeg J12. I play mostly a mix of Chicago blues with a kind of lofi garage sound mixed it, we do do a few ska numbers and such but I always like some grit and drive even for my clean sound so it all works out in the end. I can live with out the reverb, like I said I have an outboard Univox I like a lot. From what I've heard the Vellocette takes pedals very well, I'm not a huge effects freak but I almost always have a fuzz, right now it's either my Boss FZ3 or FZ2, or my Death By Audio Fuzz Gun. Looks like all there's left for me to do it take the plunge and get the Vellocette and hope it works out. I'm glad to hear with P90's it produces a thick sound. You always seem to hear that it's a very bright amp and it's always been my personal choice to have the mids and highs cranked and to adjust the bass to taste; so this amp should be fun to work with, given it only has one tone knob heh. Worst comes to worst I suppose an EQ pedal would straighten things out. __________________ "I've got a beat up Silvertone amp I plug it in and it sounds like a champ It's not a Fender Tweed Deluxe It only cost me a couple o' bucks"

October 17th, 2006, 07:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
Big Steve Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 456	I have the Ampeg J12R. I like it a lot. I put NOS tubes and a Weber 12F150 into it. I sounds very good for Chicago Blues. If you put pedals in front of it, it can do rock. It sounds really good and full at low volume. I play it at home every day. Cranked it gets a nice bluesy overdrive. The tone is a little bit on the dark side. I love it. I have 11 amps and the Ampeg gets played the most becuase it is the one I have right next to my couch. I have a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia which is louder and more of a rock voicing. But I still like my little Ampeg.

October 18th, 2006, 12:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
3StringGuitar Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 623	Hey Big Steve, the overdrive on the J12R is more gritty then fuzzy isn't it? Just curious, it seems the Vellocette has more of a fuzz sound when driven as opposed to breaking up sound; just curious how the J12R rings in with that. I kind of like my single notes to have a fuzz sound to them but still be clear. Like I said I only really use fuzz pedals when it comes to rhythm work. The FZ3 with the fuzz set low and the volume set high going into an overdriven amp just sounds amazing in my opinion. Edit-Does the J12R have a speaker out on it? __________________ "I've got a beat up Silvertone amp I plug it in and it sounds like a champ It's not a Fender Tweed Deluxe It only cost me a couple o' bucks"