DR speakers--Vintage or High Powered?

jdfoosh357 · October 15th, 2006, 04:54 PM

I went looking for a Twin, but came home with a '69 Deluxe Reverb because of the great deal. The speaker is the old Oxford and it sounds great at low volumes, but starts farting out at around volume 5. I'm looking for something that can handle more juice, I'm not against a little overdrive, but I like a cleaner tele tone. And I want to be able to dig into the low-E for a real deep sound.

Ted Weber recommended I go with a California (JBL-type) speaker, but he said I may also like the vintage-ceramic 12F150. Has anyone ever compared these two types of speakers...high powered vs. vintage. I'm thinking about going with the Cali, but I don't want to lose that sweet shimmery Deluxe tone. Any recommendations would be great help.

Thanks,
Jon

woodman · October 15th, 2006, 05:46 PM

if it was me, i'd go for the vintage -- the hi-powered ones sound sterile to me. i've gotten great results from Weber's vintage line on a variety of amps.

jdfoosh357 · October 15th, 2006, 06:37 PM

Thanks for your opinion, that's what I'm looking for. Anyone else have experience with the high-powered speakers? I'm basically looking for more headroom than the farty old Oxford, but I don't want to sacrifice tone/dynamics---I don't want sterility.

trag-o-caster · October 15th, 2006, 07:27 PM

Well I had a 77 DR with the 12F150 with light dope and 50 watts (our own Tim Swartz BF'd and re-capped it), and I still have my 69 DR with the Weber ceramic Calif 12, with the paper dome. I've had those two onstage, side by side, and I've ping ponged back and forth - playing one song on one amp, and the next song on the other amp - so I've done both onstage AND home comparisons.

I would say for a bright, clean, spanky C&W tone the ceramic Calif. would do the trick, except that you may still want to dial back the treble a bit. It's quite piercing. The lows are nice and warm. The speaker stays clean at high volume, and the lows don't fart out.

I consider the 12F150 to be the ultimate all around speaker for the DR. DR's can be bright on their own, and the 12F150 definately tames that. It also beefs up the low end. Many folks want some degree of speaker distortion along with amp distortion, so they may opt for the 25 watt 12F150. Personally, I don't want the speaker to distort much, so I went for the 50 watt.

I REALLY REALLY regret not swapping the speakers around when I sold off the 77, but I just HATE tearing into amps unless I absolutely have to.

Also keep in mind (and many don't consider this) that the small cabinet that houses the DR isn't really capable of producing much low end - no matter what speaker you put in there. Consider running it into an outboard cab, and disconnecting the onboard speaker for bigger tones. I have a 2x12 cab loaded with Eminence Legend V12's for that purpose.

Tremo · October 15th, 2006, 07:47 PM

Oh man, go with the 12F150, but get it with the 50 ounce magnet, 50 Watt coil and light dope. Those things kill in a DR. Way better than the sterile Californias. The 12F150 will have plenty of headroom in a DR, and much more character than a Cali.

jdfoosh357 · October 15th, 2006, 07:56 PM

You guys come to the rescue again, just the info I needed. I told Ted I wanted a cleaner tone, and he recommended I get the 25watt 12F150....not the 50watt. I understand why you would want more wattage to prevent speaker breakup, so I'll have to ask Ted why he thinks the 25watt would work better. Maybe the 25watt would be more dynamic since your pushing it harder??? Regardless I just want a beefier speaker, that has some tight lows.

Glen W · October 15th, 2006, 08:56 PM

I believe the 25 watt coil will allow the speaker to be a bit more sensitive than the 50 watter. This might be why Ted recommended it for a cleaner tone, as you will have more loudness for any given volume setting than with a less sensitive speaker.

Tremo · October 15th, 2006, 11:50 PM

The difference in sensitivity between a 25 Watt coil with the stock 40 ounce magnet, and a 50 Watt coil with the 50 ounce magnet is probably about 1 dB. BFD, you will never notice the difference. I have put these speakers into a few amps now and to date, nobody has been disappointed. Dood, read my earlier post. Get that version. Trust me, been there, done that.

Geo · October 16th, 2006, 09:31 PM

I use a '70s Marshall labeled Celestion GL-60 or 70? in my SFDR and it
has open smoothness but it will break a bit with more intense pick
attack, so works fine.
I just got one years ago cheap and put it in but was amused that
Robben Ford used the same one in his DR on a LP "Blue Moon" ???
a few years later.

Mwoodbro · October 17th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Somewhat, but not completely off topic, has anyone compared a recent model 25 watt Celestion greenback to either of the other speakers discussed in this thread, in a Deluxe reverb?

markophonic · October 17th, 2006, 05:38 PM

I'm looking to replace the speaker in my 1970 silverface Deluxe Reverb and I've pretty much settled on the 12F150.

My question is: Do I go with a 8 ohm speaker? If I'm running it alone in the DR cab???

telel6s · October 17th, 2006, 05:53 PM

If my experience with a Tweed Deluxe clone can be compared to the Deluxe Reverb, I say go with the 12F150.

I built a 15" cabinet for my Tweed Deluxe. I started out with a ceramic Chicago, trying to get good volume and headroom for gigging. When the amp was cranked up high, that speaker worked great. However, at anything less than full tilt, it seemed stiff, sterile and lifeless.

I have since sold the Chicago and have a 15F125 and a 40 y.o Magnavox (CTS) alnico from a Hi-Fi. Both of those speakers sound better at any volume level, with the 15F125 probably being just as loud as the Chicago was.

Based on that, if you want clean, and you'll be cranking up the DR, then the Cali would probably work well. But for any other use of that amp, I think the 12F150 would be a better choice.

MV80 · October 18th, 2006, 11:34 AM

I got a DRRI with a Weber 12F150W - 25W, JJ'tubes and the tone is wonderful. The bias have been adjust by a professionnel tech and it became so more great, perhaps the most valuable mod! But I want to beef it up with more bottom, dynamic, dimension... so I'm on a big project of building a new cab for my devoted DRRI with the addition of another speaker. The cab will be done in Sapele (a kind of mahogany) with a Baltic Birch baffle to accomodate my Weber 12F150W - 25W, light dope (with the addition of a Beam Blocker from Weber) and a Weber 12F150 - 25W, light dope. I will post photo as soon as finish and will tell you my comments on tone.

Good lock,

stevedenver · October 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM

not to hijack -but anyone have these same ideas relative to a 67 bf twin-
im torn between alnico calif webers and a mix of his vintage jenson clones-wiht light dope -the 12 150 a and the 12 150 b-(teds recommendations were ceramic not alnico-!!!)

i have plyed a bf'd silver twin with calif alnicos and like the clarity and transparancy -simply sweet and round and nice-

i play rock and blues mostly-looking for max versatility and the ability to get some brown sound if possible without a pedal-(obviously this is NOT the case with the calif speakers-but man did i like them-just beautiful and clean-even with my les paul)

tremo ??-anyone some help / commnets pleez

October 15th, 2006, 04:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	DR speakers--Vintage or High Powered? I went looking for a Twin, but came home with a '69 Deluxe Reverb because of the great deal. The speaker is the old Oxford and it sounds great at low volumes, but starts farting out at around volume 5. I'm looking for something that can handle more juice, I'm not against a little overdrive, but I like a cleaner tele tone. And I want to be able to dig into the low-E for a real deep sound. Ted Weber recommended I go with a California (JBL-type) speaker, but he said I may also like the vintage-ceramic 12F150. Has anyone ever compared these two types of speakers...high powered vs. vintage. I'm thinking about going with the Cali, but I don't want to lose that sweet shimmery Deluxe tone. Any recommendations would be great help. Thanks, Jon

October 15th, 2006, 05:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 63 Posts: 6,223	if it was me, i'd go for the vintage -- the hi-powered ones sound sterile to me. i've gotten great results from Weber's vintage line on a variety of amps. __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

October 15th, 2006, 07:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
trag-o-caster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Flushing, Michigan Posts: 4,631	Well I had a 77 DR with the 12F150 with light dope and 50 watts (our own Tim Swartz BF'd and re-capped it), and I still have my 69 DR with the Weber ceramic Calif 12, with the paper dome. I've had those two onstage, side by side, and I've ping ponged back and forth - playing one song on one amp, and the next song on the other amp - so I've done both onstage AND home comparisons. I would say for a bright, clean, spanky C&W tone the ceramic Calif. would do the trick, except that you may still want to dial back the treble a bit. It's quite piercing. The lows are nice and warm. The speaker stays clean at high volume, and the lows don't fart out. I consider the 12F150 to be the ultimate all around speaker for the DR. DR's can be bright on their own, and the 12F150 definately tames that. It also beefs up the low end. Many folks want some degree of speaker distortion along with amp distortion, so they may opt for the 25 watt 12F150. Personally, I don't want the speaker to distort much, so I went for the 50 watt. I REALLY REALLY regret not swapping the speakers around when I sold off the 77, but I just HATE tearing into amps unless I absolutely have to. Also keep in mind (and many don't consider this) that the small cabinet that houses the DR isn't really capable of producing much low end - no matter what speaker you put in there. Consider running it into an outboard cab, and disconnecting the onboard speaker for bigger tones. I have a 2x12 cab loaded with Eminence Legend V12's for that purpose. __________________ Timothy Jon Lamb

October 15th, 2006, 08:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Glen W Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: CT Age: 60 Posts: 815 12 Photos	I believe the 25 watt coil will allow the speaker to be a bit more sensitive than the 50 watter. This might be why Ted recommended it for a cleaner tone, as you will have more loudness for any given volume setting than with a less sensitive speaker. __________________ Go big... or stay home.

October 16th, 2006, 09:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
Geo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hendersonville, TN Age: 59 Posts: 2,499 15 Photos	I use a '70s Marshall labeled Celestion GL-60 or 70? in my SFDR and it has open smoothness but it will break a bit with more intense pick attack, so works fine. I just got one years ago cheap and put it in but was amused that Robben Ford used the same one in his DR on a LP "Blue Moon" ??? a few years later. __________________ "Somewhere between culture and agriculture"

October 15th, 2006, 06:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	Thanks for your opinion, that's what I'm looking for. Anyone else have experience with the high-powered speakers? I'm basically looking for more headroom than the farty old Oxford, but I don't want to sacrifice tone/dynamics---I don't want sterility.

October 15th, 2006, 07:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	Oh man, go with the 12F150, but get it with the 50 ounce magnet, 50 Watt coil and light dope. Those things kill in a DR. Way better than the sterile Californias. The 12F150 will have plenty of headroom in a DR, and much more character than a Cali.

October 15th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	You guys come to the rescue again, just the info I needed. I told Ted I wanted a cleaner tone, and he recommended I get the 25watt 12F150....not the 50watt. I understand why you would want more wattage to prevent speaker breakup, so I'll have to ask Ted why he thinks the 25watt would work better. Maybe the 25watt would be more dynamic since your pushing it harder??? Regardless I just want a beefier speaker, that has some tight lows.

October 15th, 2006, 11:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	The difference in sensitivity between a 25 Watt coil with the stock 40 ounce magnet, and a 50 Watt coil with the 50 ounce magnet is probably about 1 dB. BFD, you will never notice the difference. I have put these speakers into a few amps now and to date, nobody has been disappointed. Dood, read my earlier post. Get that version. Trust me, been there, done that.

October 17th, 2006, 04:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mwoodbro NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 1	Somewhat, but not completely off topic, has anyone compared a recent model 25 watt Celestion greenback to either of the other speakers discussed in this thread, in a Deluxe reverb?

October 17th, 2006, 05:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
markophonic Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 47 Posts: 986 1 Photos	Great and timely thread... I'm looking to replace the speaker in my 1970 silverface Deluxe Reverb and I've pretty much settled on the 12F150. My question is: Do I go with a 8 ohm speaker? If I'm running it alone in the DR cab??? __________________ http://www.brianvanderark.com/

October 17th, 2006, 05:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
telel6s Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,180 80 Photos	Tweed Deluxe with Chicago, F125 and CTS Alnico If my experience with a Tweed Deluxe clone can be compared to the Deluxe Reverb, I say go with the 12F150. I built a 15" cabinet for my Tweed Deluxe. I started out with a ceramic Chicago, trying to get good volume and headroom for gigging. When the amp was cranked up high, that speaker worked great. However, at anything less than full tilt, it seemed stiff, sterile and lifeless. I have since sold the Chicago and have a 15F125 and a 40 y.o Magnavox (CTS) alnico from a Hi-Fi. Both of those speakers sound better at any volume level, with the 15F125 probably being just as loud as the Chicago was. Based on that, if you want clean, and you'll be cranking up the DR, then the Cali would probably work well. But for any other use of that amp, I think the 12F150 would be a better choice. __________________ Mama always said, "A little tone is good for the soul."

October 18th, 2006, 11:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
MV80 Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: St-Denis-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, Canada Age: 51 Posts: 136 16 Photos	Weber 12F150 I got a DRRI with a Weber 12F150W - 25W, JJ'tubes and the tone is wonderful. The bias have been adjust by a professionnel tech and it became so more great, perhaps the most valuable mod! But I want to beef it up with more bottom, dynamic, dimension... so I'm on a big project of building a new cab for my devoted DRRI with the addition of another speaker. The cab will be done in Sapele (a kind of mahogany) with a Baltic Birch baffle to accomodate my Weber 12F150W - 25W, light dope (with the addition of a Beam Blocker from Weber) and a Weber 12F150 - 25W, light dope. I will post photo as soon as finish and will tell you my comments on tone. Good lock, __________________ Pierre

October 18th, 2006, 05:10 PM	#14 (permalink)
stevedenver Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: the mile high city Posts: 1,206 14 Photos	not to hijack -but anyone have these same ideas relative to a 67 bf twin- im torn between alnico calif webers and a mix of his vintage jenson clones-wiht light dope -the 12 150 a and the 12 150 b-(teds recommendations were ceramic not alnico-!!!) i have plyed a bf'd silver twin with calif alnicos and like the clarity and transparancy -simply sweet and round and nice- i play rock and blues mostly-looking for max versatility and the ability to get some brown sound if possible without a pedal-(obviously this is NOT the case with the calif speakers-but man did i like them-just beautiful and clean-even with my les paul) tremo ??-anyone some help / commnets pleez __________________ Im really a Les Paul guy at heart, but .....