Silverface to blackface..what to expect ?

Scotland · August 15th, 2006, 10:28 AM

My 76' SFTR is a great amp but lately people have been advising me to have it blackfaced. So far I have resisted and don't expect to change it at any time as I am very happy with it.
When I ask these people what the difference will be, all I get is "it will sound warmer and more vintage". Maybe it will but I like the way it sounds right now. What would the actual difference in sound be ?

Ringo · August 15th, 2006, 10:54 AM

Just my opinion but if you like the amp as it is now, don't mess with it.
If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it!
I had a Twin like yours years ago, before the internet was around, before anyone knew about BF mods, heck we didn't even know about matched power tubes for that matter, I loved that amp except for the weight and hassle of hauling it around.

Dacious · August 15th, 2006, 11:02 AM

I did this to my Vibrolux - except I couldn't drop the higher secondary voltages and kept the 5U4. I ended up with 445 volts at the first filter cap, exactly as per the schemo.

The effect of this has mostly been subtle. There is more in the changes to the tremolo and reverb IMO due to clipping the extra cap on the signal path and varying a few component values, which has made the reverb sound much better, and the tremolo more musical. I now use much more reverb than I did, and think it sounds much surfier.

The base tone has gone a little smokier, not quite as pristine clean as in late SF guise. Snipping the suppressor caps off the tube sockets made it a little sparklier without inducing harshness. The change to the 0.1 coupling cap actually reduced fartiness which is a good thing.

I swapped the doghouse dropping resistors between the filter caps at a later time to the other changes, and I have to say this made a larger difference than the component swaps. The preamp seems to work a little better with the lower voltage. I also added a bias level adjuster to the bias balance adjuster. This has made balancing sides and getting the bias level right easier.

It still has good fidelity and breaks up at about 5-6. I am looking for a nice alnico speaker to match with it which I believe will be the crowning touch.

Drak · August 15th, 2006, 11:25 AM

My opinion is that BF'ing is more noticable in the smaller amps, Princeton, DR, VR, maybe up to SR and PR, and only becomes noticable when you get to 4-6 on the volume, but I doubt you'd notice the difference in a Twin.

I'd spend the money on something else, especially if you're happy with it as-is.

IMOO, YMMV.

trag-o-caster · August 15th, 2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Just my opinion but if you like the amp as it is now, don't mess with it.
If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it!

Very wise words, and I did NOT follow this same advice regarding my 73 Pro Reverb. I was seriously in love with this amp. Then, after buying a couple of DR's and having Tim Swartz go through them, I decided to go ahead and have him BF the Pro (since he was re-capping it anyway).

The tonal difference was very subtle. You'd have to stand there and think about it for a minute before you really noticed it. The difference was somewhat like taking a blanket off of the amplifier, but not quite as extreme as that. It was barely noticable, but I was glad that I did it afterwards.

From what I've read, many folks like to keep the reverb stock on the SF Fenders, preferring the SF reverb to the BF. So, that's something else to think about if you decided to go for it.

Keep in mind too that it's a totally reversible mod. If you don't like it, you can return it to SF.

Roli · August 15th, 2006, 02:05 PM

It's better to silverfacing a BF.

CountryShawn · August 15th, 2006, 03:25 PM

I think there's been some really good advice here already - if it's already good, just leave it and play.

IMHO, it's more important to find something that works for you rather than blindly lusting after something that has a particular reputation.

I'd take that money, buy some good backup tubes and play the daylights out of it.

Shawn

Scotland · August 15th, 2006, 03:56 PM

As I previously said, I love the sound it has right now and really didn't want to change it but just wondered what the Blackfacing mods did to it. Thanks for all your replies and be assured ...it will stay as it is !!

Tremo · August 15th, 2006, 04:21 PM

It is a subtle change. Perhaps a little more gain, a little more sparkle and chime. A little better sounding OD. That's about it.

Glen W · August 15th, 2006, 05:25 PM

Lately, I have been leaving sf amps as sf amps, except for in some cases turning the bias balance pot back to the old bf style bias adjust. Also on some mid-to-later sf's, the reverb driver tube's bias resistor may be an 820 ohm which causes the tube to run even hotter than normal. I change this out to the good ol' 2200 ohm and add a bypass cap as well. I don't hear any difference one way or the other in the quality of the reverb when I do this, but I think I can hear a 12AT7 thanking me.

firefrets · August 15th, 2006, 05:52 PM

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head chaps

I plug them in, and throw them away if i ain't happy. Perhaps when one of you have the time, you can give a breakdown of the more intricate workings of an amp that even an amp tech payer like me can understand. I'd love to die on stage, but hopefully my time isn't quite so soon, lol.

August 15th, 2006, 10:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,612 3 Photos	Silverface to blackface..what to expect ? My 76' SFTR is a great amp but lately people have been advising me to have it blackfaced. So far I have resisted and don't expect to change it at any time as I am very happy with it. When I ask these people what the difference will be, all I get is "it will sound warmer and more vintage". Maybe it will but I like the way it sounds right now. What would the actual difference in sound be ? __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

August 15th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ringo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 1,927	BF mods Just my opinion but if you like the amp as it is now, don't mess with it. If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it! I had a Twin like yours years ago, before the internet was around, before anyone knew about BF mods, heck we didn't even know about matched power tubes for that matter, I loved that amp except for the weight and hassle of hauling it around.

August 15th, 2006, 11:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,623 35 Photos	I did this to my Vibrolux - except I couldn't drop the higher secondary voltages and kept the 5U4. I ended up with 445 volts at the first filter cap, exactly as per the schemo. The effect of this has mostly been subtle. There is more in the changes to the tremolo and reverb IMO due to clipping the extra cap on the signal path and varying a few component values, which has made the reverb sound much better, and the tremolo more musical. I now use much more reverb than I did, and think it sounds much surfier. The base tone has gone a little smokier, not quite as pristine clean as in late SF guise. Snipping the suppressor caps off the tube sockets made it a little sparklier without inducing harshness. The change to the 0.1 coupling cap actually reduced fartiness which is a good thing. I swapped the doghouse dropping resistors between the filter caps at a later time to the other changes, and I have to say this made a larger difference than the component swaps. The preamp seems to work a little better with the lower voltage. I also added a bias level adjuster to the bias balance adjuster. This has made balancing sides and getting the bias level right easier. It still has good fidelity and breaks up at about 5-6. I am looking for a nice alnico speaker to match with it which I believe will be the crowning touch. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

August 15th, 2006, 02:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Roli Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ¤ Hungary ¤ Age: 30 Posts: 1,645 5 Photos	It's better to silverfacing a BF. __________________ How I Play Fingerstyle Guitar - blog for rookies and not so rookies - with videos now!

August 15th, 2006, 03:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
CountryShawn Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Age: 37 Posts: 621	I think there's been some really good advice here already - if it's already good, just leave it and play. IMHO, it's more important to find something that works for you rather than blindly lusting after something that has a particular reputation. I'd take that money, buy some good backup tubes and play the daylights out of it. Shawn __________________ --------

August 15th, 2006, 11:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
Drak Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: DC 'Burbs Age: 47 Posts: 447	My opinion is that BF'ing is more noticable in the smaller amps, Princeton, DR, VR, maybe up to SR and PR, and only becomes noticable when you get to 4-6 on the volume, but I doubt you'd notice the difference in a Twin. I'd spend the money on something else, especially if you're happy with it as-is. IMOO, YMMV.

August 15th, 2006, 03:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,612 3 Photos	As I previously said, I love the sound it has right now and really didn't want to change it but just wondered what the Blackfacing mods did to it. Thanks for all your replies and be assured ...it will stay as it is !! __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

August 15th, 2006, 04:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	It is a subtle change. Perhaps a little more gain, a little more sparkle and chime. A little better sounding OD. That's about it.

August 15th, 2006, 05:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Glen W Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: CT Age: 60 Posts: 815 12 Photos	Lately, I have been leaving sf amps as sf amps, except for in some cases turning the bias balance pot back to the old bf style bias adjust. Also on some mid-to-later sf's, the reverb driver tube's bias resistor may be an 820 ohm which causes the tube to run even hotter than normal. I change this out to the good ol' 2200 ohm and add a bypass cap as well. I don't hear any difference one way or the other in the quality of the reverb when I do this, but I think I can hear a 12AT7 thanking me.

August 15th, 2006, 05:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
firefrets Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.I Posts: 476 10 Photos	Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head chaps I plug them in, and throw them away if i ain't happy. Perhaps when one of you have the time, you can give a breakdown of the more intricate workings of an amp that even an amp tech payer like me can understand. I'd love to die on stage, but hopefully my time isn't quite so soon, lol.