i need some help from you amp builders

[jculler82]

i've searched the boards here and come to the conclusion that a champ kit would probably be the best start for me. then i started thinking and started looking at webers kits and now i have some questions. i know i should take it slow and do as many "easier" builds as possible but cost is a factor and i dont want to spend money on a champ kit. first i should say what i really want amp wise isnt a champ its an 18 watt clone, but i'm assuming it would be quite a challenge for a first build. right now the amp i am using is a 68 bassman head and i'd also like to have some reverb. i saw weber's reverb kits and now here are my questions:

1.) is the 5G15 reverb kit comparable to a champ kit? or is it a little easier/harder?

2.) will doing the 5G15 reverb kit give me enough experience to do the 6M18 combo or do i need to do more than 1 "level 1" kit, or a "level 2" from weber, before i tackle a "level 3" like the 6M18 kit?

i know i could just order an 18 watt clone already built but i want to actually build it myself. incase its important: i haven't done anything like this before on musical stuff, but i have done some wiring on electric pumps. nothing major and no soldering but it was basically following scematics. there were transformers, switches, etc. so a lot of the same stuff you'd find in an amp. and i have a little soldering experience on guitars. thanks for any help.
-jeramy

[PhatTele]

As much as I love Champs, I think the best amp to start out with is the 5E3 Tweed Deluxe. It really is not that much more complicated than the Champ and when you're done, you have a more versitile amp for practice, rehersals, and gigs. Also, the cost of a 5E3 kit is not that much more than a Champ.

From there, building kit based 18Watters and AB763 (BF style) amps are logical next steps that start costing a bit more money per build and which get progressively harder to build. However, to be honest, after you build a couple, you'll start to see that they really aren't that difficult to put together. In a way, they start looking the same. Then it becomes the tweaking and trouble shooting and scratch building and blending of mod ideas that starts really getting you juiced up for the next project.

[David Barnett]

Just remember that Weber's kits don't include any instructions, all you get is a bag of parts, a schematic and a layout. You're left on your own to figure out what order in which to assemble it all.

The reverb should be about the same level of difficulty as a Champ, maybe even less since there's only two tubes.

How would you describe your general ability at soldering and electronic assembly? Do you have any repair experience? Can you read a schematic?

The GDS 18-watt kit is quite a bit more expensive than, say, a Weber or Ceriatone kit, but it includes full instructions and that may be worth more to you than building a first kit you don't really want just to gain experience.

I went with a Ceriatone 18 trem kit for my first build, because it was the amp I wanted and I had enough general electronics and tube amp repair background to tackle something a little more complex. I don't regret it, but I could do a better job if I had it to do again. The Ceriatone, as with a Weber, is just a bag full of parts that you are left to figure out on your own with just a schematic and layout. And the layout is for a "head" version, whereas I built a combo. The parts that Ceriatone fabricate themselves -- chassis, faceplate, transformers, turret board -- are all top quality.

[jculler82]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Just remember that Weber's kits don't include any instructions, all you get is a bag of parts, a schematic and a layout. You're left on your own to figure out what order in which to assemble it all.

The reverb should be about the same level of difficulty as a Champ, maybe even less since there's only two tubes.

How would you describe your general ability at soldering and electronic assembly? Do you have any repair experience? Can you read a schematic?

The GDS 18-watt kit is quite a bit more expensive than, say, a Weber or Ceriatone kit, but it includes full instructions and that may be worth more to you than building a first kit you don't really want just to gain experience.

I went with a Ceriatone 18 trem kit for my first build, because it was the amp I wanted and I had enough general electronics and tube amp repair background to tackle something a little more complex. I don't regret it, but I could do a better job if I had it to do again. The Ceriatone, as with a Weber, is just a bag full of parts that you are left to figure out on your own with just a schematic and layout. And the layout is for a "head" version, whereas I built a combo. The parts that Ceriatone fabricate themselves -- chassis, faceplate, transformers, turret board -- are all top quality.

my soldering ability isn't exceptional but its not aweful. i have never repaired an amp but i've done a lot of work on guitars. i'm going to assume though that they are nothing alike. i can read scemeatics though and have a pretty good idea (i think) whats going on with them when i am looking at them. after i made that post i looked again at webers site and saw about the GDS kit being an exact replica of the 18 watters. i have looked into ceriatone, actually found them from your post about your 18 watter. i really only was giving the weber such serious thought because of the cab and speaker being included. i did give thought to getting a pre-built ceriatone and then building/buying a cabinet also. but i think the fun of it would be in building it.
-jeramy

[JohnnyCrash]

You could do it.

Having built Champs, the Reverb unit (they got three tubes, not just two), and Class AB amps (amps with a phase inverter and 2 or more power tubes)...

These days you could build just about anything for your first build... 18watt.com is a great resource, either way.

Go with a layout drawing instead of a schematic for your first build, that'll make it a little easier... it's like paint by numbers.

My first build was NOT a stock schematic, but had a pretty unsusual mod I figured out and drew up. I am a complete moron and I was able to build it... the guys at 18watt are really helpful AND patient...

I'm not joking, I am pretty slow... SO if I can do it, anybody can do it :)

[CancerLeoCam]

...is an 18W kit then buy that instead of spending money on practice builds.

Just take your time and do it right.

Even after you finish soldering it all together double check your layout (before you fire it up) to make sure you have not missed something in the intitial excitement. Make sure your speaker is hooked up and turn 'er on. Gluck.

[tazzboy]

what Ted should have done is either link up schematicsheaven.com or ampwares.com kit build sit and told people that you can find the schematics and chassis layout for doing this project.

[David Barnett]

Originally Posted by jculler82

i really only was giving the weber such serious thought because of the cab and speaker being included. i did give thought to getting a pre-built ceriatone and then building/buying a cabinet also. but i think the fun of it would be in building it.

Weber's pricing structure is hard to beat, compared to the other suppliers who do not offer cabinets or speakers. My only qualm about the Weber 18 is that I think he uses a Deluxe-Amp 5E3 transformer set instead of a proper 18-watt set. But then I've never heard a finished Weber 18 kit, so I don't know whether or not his choice of transformers really affects the performance at all. It may be a moot point. But for some reason, on paper, it bugs me. Oh, and he supplies the kit with a Kopper Kap silicon diode rectifier instead of a proper EZ81 tube, but since the 9-pin rectifier socket is there, it would be a trivial matter to re-wire it to accept a tube.

[JohnnyCrash]

I never have used a kit yet, the only slight exception was:

A W***r silkscreened chassis and W***r transformer set (and choke) for my Reverb unit. I got em all there for the prices BUT had to wait OVER A MONTH!

Everything before and after has always been from old fashioned parts ordering... I even drill my own chassis holes for tube sockets, pots, AC plug socket, etc.

I even build my own cabs now.

I'm stubborn and like to do things the hard way... couple that with my own ignorance and retardation and that should give you that much more confidence that you can do it! HAHA

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by tazzboy

what Ted should have done is either link up schematicsheaven.com or ampwares.com kit build sit and told people that you can find the schematics and chassis layout for doing this project.

You mean like they do at the top of the kitbuilding forum?

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Weber's pricing structure is hard to beat, compared to the other suppliers who do not offer cabinets or speakers. My only qualm about the Weber 18 is that I think he uses a Deluxe-Amp 5E3 transformer set instead of a proper 18-watt set. But then I've never heard a finished Weber 18 kit, so I don't know whether or not his choice of transformers really affects the performance at all. It may be a moot point. But for some reason, on paper, it bugs me. Oh, and he supplies the kit with a Kopper Kap silicon diode rectifier instead of a proper EZ81 tube, but since the 9-pin rectifier socket is there, it would be a trivial matter to re-wire it to accept a tube.

Probably does affect the performance to a slight degree, but stocking 12 general-purpose PTs is more cost-effective than stocking 40+ "correct" PTs. Same for the OTs.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

I'm stubborn and like to do things the hard way... couple that with my own ignorance and retardation and that should give you that much more confidence that you can do it! HAHA

"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence and then success is sure." -- Mark Twain

[maestrovert]

www.18watt.com

there's also:
www.ax84.com
and:
www.s2amps.com

you should be good to go !

[David Barnett]

Just remember, if you go to www.18watt.com, do NOT mention the word "Weber". It's a long story that would not be appropriate to repeat here, but due to a dispute between TW and the admin at 18Watt, 18Watt is unable to offer support for Weber kits.

[Wayne Alexander]

My advice is different from the above. My advice is that if you want an 18 watt amp and haven't built one before, buy a GDS kit, even if you have to wait awhile to be able to afford it. All the parts (including the transformers, critical to the sound of this type of amp) are the best there are, and there's a 25 page or so detailed instruction manual that will get you through to a fully functional well made amp. No one else provides that in the 18-watt world that I'm aware of. Also, Graydon Stuckey's customer support is superb. There are a lot of critical basics in ampbuilding [how to cut and route the wires, what to shield, lead dress, use of heat sinks, component orientation, exactly how to do a grounding scheme, for examples] that you will not pick up from a layout diagram, that Graydon's instructions (or the experience of a very patient tutor) will cover.

[jculler82]

thanks for all your help everyone, its really giving me some confidence. i also bought this book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087...Fencoding=UTF8 and i'm not even 10 pages in and i am realizing tube amps arent as complicated as they seem. it also got me thinking (some more) and i was wondering what anyone thought about modding an amp before i build. i have a 68 bassman that i thought about fooling with. see what happens when you quit your band! i was supposed to spend less time (and money) worrying about guitar gear.
-jeramy

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by jculler82

see what happens when you quit your band! i was supposed to spend less time (and money) worrying about guitar gear.
-jeramy

LOL... my new band is what inspired me to buy a Rickenbacker and an amp kit. 8)

[jculler82]

Originally Posted by Scott S

LOL... my new band is what inspired me to buy a Rickenbacker and an amp kit. 8)

apparently its a no win situation. or is it win/win???
-jeramy