Super Champ with Ragin Cajun (pics)

ol man · May 4th, 2006, 04:23 AM

Yes!
Just scored a Fender Super Champ.
Looks like new, but the original speaker is gone.
What replacement should I go for?
I'm aiming for a reasonable low-end and don't mind somewhat tamed highs.
Ragin Cajun?
Emi Legend 105?
Will the alnico Legend 102 be to weak (35 watt) for the SC?
Any other suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,

shakedancer · May 4th, 2006, 06:32 AM

Good for you!! I've had mine for over 20 years(new). I recently ordered a 1x12 custom(Champ) cabinet from David Allen at Allen Amps. He put the Eminence Red, White & Blues speaker in. Highly efficient and great Fender sounds. Looks great getting it out of that little box, and sounds as good as any Deluxe. It's as good as a boutique amp as it is also PTP. If your gonna stick with the 10, try a Rajun Cajun. Good Luck and enjoy one of the great Fender amps. 8)

Wally · May 4th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Ol Man, I have 2 SC's. Don't worry about the original speaker being gone...the OEM Emi was a bottom of the line speaker with no sound at all, anyway.
I use the Legend 10ALK..Alnico in mine. IMO, it is a great speaker for this amp. The bottom is good, and the Alnico smoothes out the top end. Many people hear the SC as harsh in the OD. The Alnico cures this, ime.

ol man · May 5th, 2006, 02:19 AM

Wally and shakedancer, thanks for your suggestions :D
For this amp I will stick with a 10"
It's easier to find the Ragin Cajun for me.
But I will look for the Emi alnico as well. I'm not to experienced
with alnicos. Had a Fender Bassman RI once and the Jensen Reissues were so-so.
But the Emi Red Fang 12", which I had in a Traynor Guitarmate, was a GREAT speaker,
very "musical" and certainly not thinny sounding.
Now if I could find a "10 version of that one...

Wally · May 5th, 2006, 11:33 AM

Ol Man, I just checked my Eminence catalog. For the Super Champ they list the origianl speaker as an EV10". As far as I know, only the limited edition hardwood cab SC (100 made) came with EV's. Be that as it may, Eminence suggets the Eminence Legend 105 or the Ramrod as a replacement. Comparing the Rajin Cajun to the Ramrod...similar 70-5K bandwidth, same power ratings, and SPL/Freq graphs are somewhat similar.

Iversen · May 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM

I just replaced the stock speaker in my SC with an Eminence Delta Demon.

I was looking for a 10" that would give me:
- Bottom end close to that of your garden variety 12" speaker
- No low end farting out when playing my Les Paul.
- No breakup at all. I want to be able to play loud AND clean at the same time.
- No shrill icepick-in-the-forehead highs.

So far the Delta Demon delivers. It needs breaking in still, since I've only played it for 5 hours or so...

I didn't go with the other Patriot/Red Coat 10" speakers because they seemed too bright according to their descriptions on the Eminence's website. Also, if they think a Ramrod sounds close to an EV Force 10, I'd rather not go with that since I find the EV's clean and powerful, but cold and sterile.

I tried a ToneTubby 10" Ceramic that I found to sound powerful, but weird in the mids.
I tried a Jensen P10R reissue which was great for crunch because it breaks up as soon as you hit your strings, but you need to keep the treble at no more than 1½.

ol man · May 8th, 2006, 03:55 AM

I have now ordered me a Ragin Cajun.
Can't wait to try it out in the SC.
Will come back with a review :D

ol man · May 10th, 2006, 04:08 AM

Thought I should run these two babys together,
but now I suspect the Pathfinder will be to weak,
because of this:

Holy Moses, am I happy with this choice :D
After pulling out the tubes AND the reverb tank, I managed
to finally fit the Ragin Cajun in there.
I have never heard a 10" sounding so loud
and full as this. Like a 10" pretending to be a 12"
Nice even responce from top to bottom.
And to me the Super Champ now sounds as
loud as your typical 2X 6L6-amp.
Very touch-responsive too.
Me like!

JohnnyCrash · May 10th, 2006, 04:44 AM

I haven't tried any of the new line of Eminence speakers... well, I guess they're not new anymore (wow time flies by fast) HAHA!

You got me itchin' to go out and get some now :)

ol man · May 10th, 2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

I haven't tried any of the new line of Eminence speakers... well, I guess they're not new anymore (wow time flies by fast) HAHA!

You got me itchin' to go out and get some now :)

And so you should JohnnyCrash!
I must say I´m Very impressed with
the redcoat/patriot series.
Also, the anlico Emi Red Fang 12"
sounds fantastic if you´re into musical cone compression.
Every bit as sweet as the Celestion Blue me thinks, for a fraction of the price.

Jack Knife · May 10th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Congrats! One of the amps I miss most (never sell anything I'm tellin' ya!) is my Super Champ. I'll bet it's a killer with the Ragin' Cajun installed.

I really like that speaker, and the Emi Legend 105, absolutely great speaker.

Well done! :D

ol man · May 10th, 2006, 01:03 PM

Thanks Jack!
Yeah I know, having owned more than one amp and guitar I wish i never sold... But I´ll keep this purty one.
They are far between to, especially here in Sweden...

Hucklebilly · May 10th, 2006, 01:17 PM

I run my tweed champ head through a Ragin Cajun loaded cab. Great tone!

Tremo · May 10th, 2006, 01:43 PM

Mismatched 6V6s??

Wally · May 10th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremo

Mismatched 6V6s??

Good eye, Tremo. Actually, just because they are different brands doesn't necessarily mean that they are mismatched, does it? I have heard of folks running different brands of tubes with 'matching' performance specs in pairs/quartets to achieve differently tonality.

JohnnyCrash · May 10th, 2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremo

Mismatched 6V6s??

Aren't those Super Champs Class A/Single Ended?

If so, mismatched power tubes are OK in that kind of amp.

Wally · May 10th, 2006, 05:37 PM

No, Johnny, the Champ II and the Super Champ run 2 6V6's in push/pull, fixed-bias. That begs the question as to when will Fender reissue a single-ended Champ.??????

Tremo · May 10th, 2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Good eye, Tremo. Actually, just because they are different brands doesn't necessarily mean that they are mismatched, does it? I have heard of folks running different brands of tubes with 'matching' performance specs in pairs/quartets to achieve differently tonality.

It's theoretically possible that you could match up different brands of 6V6s, but it probably would be difficult. But I would wager that yours are mismatched. Probably by quite a bit. Time to call Bob for a new pair of JJs.

ol man · May 11th, 2006, 02:51 AM

He he
I knew someone would notice.
Sharp eyes here on TDPRI :D
Well, this is the way she came to me.
Sounds great though, but might be bad for the transformer.
I've ordered matched JJ:s ...

TexGoneNW · May 11th, 2006, 05:37 AM

I have one of those in the ThunderTweak'ed (hand-wired) re-done Pro Junior. Nice speaker.

Running the same amp through a 12" Tone Tubby mounted in a DR for comparison...

Wally · May 11th, 2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ol man

He he
I knew someone would notice.
Sharp eyes here on TDPRI :D
Well, this is the way she came to me.
Sounds great though, but might be bad for the transformer.
I've ordered matched JJ:s ...

IMO, it would be interesting to measure current draw on those dissimilar tubes, especially since you say it sounds great. If by chance they are within 5% or so of each other, they are good to run. If they are matched in current draw, it would be interesting to compare their sonics with those of matched JJ's. Running matched but dissimilar tubes is something like running two different speakers....tonal complexity is the result.

Tremo · May 11th, 2006, 12:42 PM

You need to match on BOTH current draw and transconductance. Current draw alone doesn't cut it.

Wally · May 11th, 2006, 03:25 PM

Given the plate and bias voltages are known and for the sake of the question the current draw is equal on both tubes, isn't it also a given that the transconductance of the two tubes is equal? Or..would a change in the bias voltage reveal that the tranconductance of the tubes is not the same and the balanced current draws at a given bias voltage was a lucky coincidence??
I have never used dissimilar tubes but know of knowledgable players/amp techs that do for tonal complexity. I am sure that these folks understand biasing, current draw and transconductance. I was surprised when I first heard of it and am wanting to understand it more fully.
I do understand that if I want to replicate the way a certain amp functions, I would want to buy graded tubes that have similar transconductance specs. This is the Mesa Boogie way, right?

tdu · May 11th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Those Super Champs are a pretty cool looking amp. I learn more and more about Fender Amps on here, and that is another model I knew nothing about. It's got a great feature set.

pirana · May 11th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakedancer

Good for you!! I've had mine for over 20 years(new). I recently ordered a 1x12 custom(Champ) cabinet from David Allen at Allen Amps. He put the Eminence Red, White & Blues speaker in. Highly efficient and great Fender sounds. Looks great getting it out of that little box, and sounds as good as any Deluxe. It's as good as a boutique amp as it is also PTP. If your gonna stick with the 10, try a Rajun Cajun. Good Luck and enjoy one of the great Fender amps. 8)

I just got a 1x12 ext. cab from David Allen loaded with a Eminence Red, White & Blues about a month or so ago. I love it but very reluctantly i've got it up for sale here on the classifides because of a financial bind i'm in. Also have the 10" rajun cajun in my Allen sweet spot which I ain't sellin unless my wife threatens me at gun point. Great stuff from David Allen.

ol man · May 12th, 2006, 03:38 AM

Thanks for interesting input!
Being "just" a musician, I know nothing about voltages here and there in a tube-amp.

I'll let my tech measure my mismatched tubes, just for funs sake.
I have no idea if the previous SC-owner put the dissimilar tubes in there out of ignorance
or if he sought complexity of some sort. The latter I doubt. Anyway, I have now compared them to my new set of JJ:s.
Like the sound of both set-ups, and they do differ a little.
The JJ:s are strong, glassy and makes the SC very Fendery-bright, to bright almost.
The Ruby and GT together are a tad rounder,
a little less brittle in overdrive-mode.
I have no idea who made these tubes.
The Groove tube simply has 6V6 GTA USA stamped, performance: H-S (their own grading system I suppose?)
The Ruby is a "Double Syncron Selected" and marked 6V&GTB-C with PC: 30 and TC 450.
This is above me, sorry...
The Super Champ sounds fantastic though.
Had som old spare 12ax7:s to try out and I settled for a RCA/Fender 7025 in V1 and a Philips AT7 in V2.
Tone, tone!

Tremo · May 12th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Yo OM, to get the best out of the new set of JJs, you'll need to have the amp biased for them. If you just plug and pray, chances are the bias is not optimized. Tell your tech to bias the JJs on the warm side, they seem to like that the best.

From your discription of the GT/Ruby, it sounds like the Ruby is their cheapo Chinese version, and the GT may be a Philips or RCA.

If you can provide a closeup pic, we can identify it for you.

May 4th, 2006, 04:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	Super Champ with Ragin Cajun (pics) Yes! Just scored a Fender Super Champ. Looks like new, but the original speaker is gone. What replacement should I go for? I'm aiming for a reasonable low-end and don't mind somewhat tamed highs. Ragin Cajun? Emi Legend 105? Will the alnico Legend 102 be to weak (35 watt) for the SC? Any other suggestions appreciated. Thanks,

May 4th, 2006, 06:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
shakedancer Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: north of Boston Posts: 1,634	Good for you!! I've had mine for over 20 years(new). I recently ordered a 1x12 custom(Champ) cabinet from David Allen at Allen Amps. He put the Eminence Red, White & Blues speaker in. Highly efficient and great Fender sounds. Looks great getting it out of that little box, and sounds as good as any Deluxe. It's as good as a boutique amp as it is also PTP. If your gonna stick with the 10, try a Rajun Cajun. Good Luck and enjoy one of the great Fender amps. 8) __________________ "If you don't like the Blues, you got to have a Hole in your Soul." Luther Allison JOE

May 10th, 2006, 01:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Hucklebilly Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 771 2 Photos	Champ + Ragin Cajun I run my tweed champ head through a Ragin Cajun loaded cab. Great tone!

May 11th, 2006, 05:37 AM	#20 (permalink)
TexGoneNW Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Victoria, TX Age: 50 Posts: 907 4 Photos	Ragin Cajun I have one of those in the ThunderTweak'ed (hand-wired) re-done Pro Junior. Nice speaker. Running the same amp through a 12" Tone Tubby mounted in a DR for comparison...

May 11th, 2006, 03:25 PM	#23 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,641	Trying to learn...sorry to hijack... Given the plate and bias voltages are known and for the sake of the question the current draw is equal on both tubes, isn't it also a given that the transconductance of the two tubes is equal? Or..would a change in the bias voltage reveal that the tranconductance of the tubes is not the same and the balanced current draws at a given bias voltage was a lucky coincidence?? I have never used dissimilar tubes but know of knowledgable players/amp techs that do for tonal complexity. I am sure that these folks understand biasing, current draw and transconductance. I was surprised when I first heard of it and am wanting to understand it more fully. I do understand that if I want to replicate the way a certain amp functions, I would want to buy graded tubes that have similar transconductance specs. This is the Mesa Boogie way, right?

May 4th, 2006, 04:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,641	Ol Man, I have 2 SC's. Don't worry about the original speaker being gone...the OEM Emi was a bottom of the line speaker with no sound at all, anyway. I use the Legend 10ALK..Alnico in mine. IMO, it is a great speaker for this amp. The bottom is good, and the Alnico smoothes out the top end. Many people hear the SC as harsh in the OD. The Alnico cures this, ime.

May 5th, 2006, 02:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	Wally and shakedancer, thanks for your suggestions :D For this amp I will stick with a 10" It's easier to find the Ragin Cajun for me. But I will look for the Emi alnico as well. I'm not to experienced with alnicos. Had a Fender Bassman RI once and the Jensen Reissues were so-so. But the Emi Red Fang 12", which I had in a Traynor Guitarmate, was a GREAT speaker, very "musical" and certainly not thinny sounding. Now if I could find a "10 version of that one...

May 5th, 2006, 11:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,641	Ol Man, I just checked my Eminence catalog. For the Super Champ they list the origianl speaker as an EV10". As far as I know, only the limited edition hardwood cab SC (100 made) came with EV's. Be that as it may, Eminence suggets the Eminence Legend 105 or the Ramrod as a replacement. Comparing the Rajin Cajun to the Ramrod...similar 70-5K bandwidth, same power ratings, and SPL/Freq graphs are somewhat similar.

May 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Iversen TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 43	I just replaced the stock speaker in my SC with an Eminence Delta Demon. I was looking for a 10" that would give me: - Bottom end close to that of your garden variety 12" speaker - No low end farting out when playing my Les Paul. - No breakup at all. I want to be able to play loud AND clean at the same time. - No shrill icepick-in-the-forehead highs. So far the Delta Demon delivers. It needs breaking in still, since I've only played it for 5 hours or so... I didn't go with the other Patriot/Red Coat 10" speakers because they seemed too bright according to their descriptions on the Eminence's website. Also, if they think a Ramrod sounds close to an EV Force 10, I'd rather not go with that since I find the EV's clean and powerful, but cold and sterile. I tried a ToneTubby 10" Ceramic that I found to sound powerful, but weird in the mids. I tried a Jensen P10R reissue which was great for crunch because it breaks up as soon as you hit your strings, but you need to keep the treble at no more than 1½.

May 8th, 2006, 03:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	I have now ordered me a Ragin Cajun. Can't wait to try it out in the SC. Will come back with a review :D

May 10th, 2006, 04:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	Thought I should run these two babys together, but now I suspect the Pathfinder will be to weak, because of this: Holy Moses, am I happy with this choice :D After pulling out the tubes AND the reverb tank, I managed to finally fit the Ragin Cajun in there. I have never heard a 10" sounding so loud and full as this. Like a 10" pretending to be a 12" Nice even responce from top to bottom. And to me the Super Champ now sounds as loud as your typical 2X 6L6-amp. Very touch-responsive too. Me like!

May 10th, 2006, 04:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	I haven't tried any of the new line of Eminence speakers... well, I guess they're not new anymore (wow time flies by fast) HAHA! You got me itchin' to go out and get some now :)

May 10th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jack Knife Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 383	Congrats! One of the amps I miss most (never sell anything I'm tellin' ya!) is my Super Champ. I'll bet it's a killer with the Ragin' Cajun installed. I really like that speaker, and the Emi Legend 105, absolutely great speaker. Well done! :D

May 10th, 2006, 01:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	Thanks Jack! Yeah I know, having owned more than one amp and guitar I wish i never sold... But I´ll keep this purty one. They are far between to, especially here in Sweden...

May 10th, 2006, 01:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tremo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,643	Mismatched 6V6s??

May 10th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,641	No, Johnny, the Champ II and the Super Champ run 2 6V6's in push/pull, fixed-bias. That begs the question as to when will Fender reissue a single-ended Champ.??????

May 11th, 2006, 02:51 AM	#19 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	He he I knew someone would notice. Sharp eyes here on TDPRI :D Well, this is the way she came to me. Sounds great though, but might be bad for the transformer. I've ordered matched JJ:s ...

May 11th, 2006, 12:42 PM	#22 (permalink)
Tremo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,643	You need to match on BOTH current draw and transconductance. Current draw alone doesn't cut it.

May 11th, 2006, 03:42 PM	#24 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,399 9 Photos	Those Super Champs are a pretty cool looking amp. I learn more and more about Fender Amps on here, and that is another model I knew nothing about. It's got a great feature set. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

May 12th, 2006, 03:38 AM	#26 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 223	Thanks for interesting input! Being "just" a musician, I know nothing about voltages here and there in a tube-amp. I'll let my tech measure my mismatched tubes, just for funs sake. I have no idea if the previous SC-owner put the dissimilar tubes in there out of ignorance or if he sought complexity of some sort. The latter I doubt. Anyway, I have now compared them to my new set of JJ:s. Like the sound of both set-ups, and they do differ a little. The JJ:s are strong, glassy and makes the SC very Fendery-bright, to bright almost. The Ruby and GT together are a tad rounder, a little less brittle in overdrive-mode. I have no idea who made these tubes. The Groove tube simply has 6V6 GTA USA stamped, performance: H-S (their own grading system I suppose?) The Ruby is a "Double Syncron Selected" and marked 6V&GTB-C with PC: 30 and TC 450. This is above me, sorry... The Super Champ sounds fantastic though. Had som old spare 12ax7:s to try out and I settled for a RCA/Fender 7025 in V1 and a Philips AT7 in V2. Tone, tone!

May 12th, 2006, 12:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
Tremo Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,643	Yo OM, to get the best out of the new set of JJs, you'll need to have the amp biased for them. If you just plug and pray, chances are the bias is not optimized. Tell your tech to bias the JJs on the warm side, they seem to like that the best. From your discription of the GT/Ruby, it sounds like the Ruby is their cheapo Chinese version, and the GT may be a Philips or RCA. If you can provide a closeup pic, we can identify it for you.

May 15th, 2006, 10:01 AM	#28 (permalink)
ol man Tele-Meister