Champ Pix!!!

petebradt · April 30th, 2006, 04:52 PM

You've been asking for them, here they are. My RI P8R isn't here yet, but other than that, and maybe a bright cap on the #1 input, it's finished

OK, snipe about my crappy looking board. First build, I have an excuse. At least the shellac looks ok this time.

Turretboard next time.

zook · April 30th, 2006, 04:56 PM

The board looks fine. I prefer eyelets to turrets.

Winnie

getbent · April 30th, 2006, 07:29 PM

Pete,

it's *****en. It has no resemblance to the csmfsob you referred to that one night.... I'll bet it sounds great too! Be proud amigo!

Scott S · April 30th, 2006, 07:40 PM

No twist on the heater wires?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :P

JohnnyCrash · May 1st, 2006, 03:55 AM

You're too hard on yourself man!

That looks NICE!

Give them green heater wires a couple of tight twists, you'll drop some added hum/noise.

I haven't even covered my cabs with tweed yet... or bought any shellac... it's midnight and I just finished building my 5D8 Twin... and holy crap does it sound killer!

This next week I'll be rewiring one of my Telecasters (the one I use for slide in Open Tunings w/ humbuckers), and my ES-135 with a Fishman Powerbridge acoustic pickup...

I doubt my tweed & shellac job will even come close to looking as cool as yours! Good job man, I am jealous of your amp-skinning skills! Some day, I'll learn... I am but a humble grasshopper :(

petebradt · May 1st, 2006, 09:55 AM

Well I didn't apply the tweed, it's a Mojo cab, pre-tweeded for my convenience, I just did the shellac. I'll give those wires a twist.

bluehonky · May 1st, 2006, 10:19 AM

Great job, man. Looks killer.

How would you rate the DIY experience?

I know had to do some troubleshooting halfway through but it looks like it turned out perfect.

petebradt · May 1st, 2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluehonky

Great job, man. Looks killer.

How would you rate the DIY experience?

I know had to do some troubleshooting halfway through but it looks like it turned out perfect.

Overall, pretty positive. I've been on ol terra firma long enough to know that the frustration of having done something stupid and taking a while to figure it out is one of life's enduring lessons and in that frustration is education.

Here's what I learned:

Before building, make sure you have all the parts. I didn't get a power cord. If you have two tables, lay your parts out on one and your board and tools on the other.

A digital multimeter is a good idea. I have a $20 Radio Shack model that served me fine. Some will say you need a $300 Fluke but they're full of...well, you know. Back in the '50s, all they had was analog meters and those amps sounded pretty damn good.

Measure the resistance of each resistor, don't use color coding. Bend the tangs and get the resistors and wires into place, one component at a time. I started on the right and worked left.

When you're placing the wires on the back of the board, tape them down until you're done soldering. I DIDN'T do that and the cussing factor went up by an order of magnitude. I was dumb enough to think of it after the board was finished.

You can solder grounds or bolt them to tube socket hold-downs and power-transformer hold-downs. In a larger chassis, I'd simply mount a few grounding lugs (with about three terminals per) and solder as many as possible grounds to those. It's important to NOT ground different sections of the amp at the same place, as this will introduce noise. Power supply grounds to the power transforme or rectifier socket hold-downs, output to the octal socket for the 6V6, preamp to the 9-pin socket hold-downs.

I don't know if this is a great grounding scheme, it's probably not, but the amp is pretty quiet. Even with a 75-watt gun, I couldn't get the chassis hot enough to solder.

One thing to know is the 5F1 champ does not call for a capacitor on the far right resistor, even though the 5E1 does. Get the cap. This is a mistake on the part of Fender way back when. Even if you're not using a Weber kit, go to their site and D/L their wiring diagram. It's much better, easier to read and calls for a cap on that part of the circuit.

When I first fired mine up, it was VERY dark. Like the tone knob was on about 3, on the guitar. I spoke with Curt Emery (my amp tech for several years, www.emerysound.com) who suggested trying several values of cap on that far right section (preamp) as the difference in brightness would be subtle, not gross. I settled on a 4.7uf electrolytic (has to be electrolytic) and I'll see how it sounds with the RI Jensen P8R I have coming. If it's still darker than I like I'll put a bright cap on the volume control, like a DR has .

I asked for Mallory 150 coupling caps on the advice of Brother Fezz Parka. He said they sound better. Marsh exchanged them with no upcharge so it was a wash.

One other thing - if I ever do this again, I won't buy a kit, I'll just go to Hoffman and buy the chassis, caps, and resistors, and hardware, Mojo for the cabinet, fuseholder, pilot lamp (NOS) and misc. parts, JMI music for Mercury Magnetics transformers and JJ tubes. I'll get a board from turretboards.com. No more eyelets for me.

fezz parka · May 1st, 2006, 02:42 PM

Go Pete! Now you've got every tweed you need.:D

David Barnett · May 1st, 2006, 04:00 PM

What exactly is your objection to eyelets?

CancerLeoCam · May 1st, 2006, 04:16 PM

I personally prefer eyelets.

petebradt · May 1st, 2006, 04:48 PM

I think they're harder to work on if you screw up...and I did.

David Barnett · May 1st, 2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petebradt

I think they're harder to work on if you screw up...and I did.

I can't imagine how eyelets could be EASIER to work on if you screw up. It's a hole, and you stick the component leads into it. Unlike a turret, where you have to dress the ends or wrap them around the post.

Servicing old Fender amplifiers is easier than any other old tube amps, because of the eyelets.

pgambon · May 1st, 2006, 06:51 PM

I prefer turrets. Why? It's a better connection that will likely never fail. In a bygone era it was the military spec standard. That said, eyelets can work just fine. Do remember, you need metal to metal contact. So, kind of crimp your wires through and against the eyelet. Solder alone dosen't make a good connection! Also, leave a little extra wire on the component so it has some flex. Expansion/contraction can break resistor leads over time. Bad soldering,warped boards and broken leads are typical of the problems you will see in old Fender amps.
ps Beautiful Champ!

petebradt · May 2nd, 2006, 08:40 PM

Who needs a marshall Stack, when you can have tweed? (Not that I ever would use that configuration, one at a time, please)

Speaker arrived and it sounds very good already, no doubt will sound better after I break it in. It's about as bright as I need it now, but a 12AX7 is MUCH too gainy for me. I have a Mullard 12AT7 in it now and I think I'm going to settle on a 12AY7 if I can find a Mullard. I'll try to get some recording done tomorrow. I have enough demos floating around I can plug some Champ into them.

David Barnett · May 2nd, 2006, 09:08 PM

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

petebradt · May 2nd, 2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

I got no room for any more amps, man. I'm not a collector. if someone wanted me to build them one, I'd probably do it, just because it'd help me learn more, but they'd have to be patient. There's no money in doing a startup amp company and I don't really want to do that as I have a pretty good day gig.

Scott S · May 2nd, 2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

+1. With a multitap OT and an extra baffle, you can practically build both at the same time. 8)

petebradt · May 2nd, 2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott S

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

+1. With a multitap OT and an extra baffle, you can practically build both at the same time. 8)

Sorry, just like I don't believe in coil taps on pickups, don't believe in them on OTs. Call me old-fashoined. ;)

Scott S · May 2nd, 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petebradt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott S

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

+1. With a multitap OT and an extra baffle, you can practically build both at the same time. 8)

Sorry, just like I don't believe in coil taps on pickups, don't believe in them on OTs. Call me old-fashoined. ;)

Fair enough. 4 ohms would work for both.

David Barnett · May 3rd, 2006, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petebradt

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.

I got no room for any more amps, man. I'm not a collector. if someone wanted me to build them one, I'd probably do it, just because it'd help me learn more, but they'd have to be patient. There's no money in doing a startup amp company and I don't really want to do that as I have a pretty good day gig.

But think of the joy the cats would gain by being able to perch on top of their choice of stair-step amplifiers, and leap from one to the other? You owe it to them.

And it's two more 5E tweed tone flavors you don't have covered yet.

dtube · May 3rd, 2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

But think of the joy the cats would gain by being able to perch on top of their choice of stair-step amplifiers, and leap from one to the other? You owe it to them.

...and the cool scratching post the tweed would provide! -Darren

petebradt · May 3rd, 2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtube

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

But think of the joy the cats would gain by being able to perch on top of their choice of stair-step amplifiers, and leap from one to the other? You owe it to them.

...and the cool scratching post the tweed would provide! -Darren

All my tweed is shellacked, No scritching. I need to get a cover for the Champ.

April 30th, 2006, 04:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,519 12 Photos	Champ Pix!!! You've been asking for them, here they are. My RI P8R isn't here yet, but other than that, and maybe a bright cap on the #1 input, it's finished OK, snipe about my crappy looking board. First build, I have an excuse. At least the shellac looks ok this time. Turretboard next time.

April 30th, 2006, 04:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
zook Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northeast Kingdom, Vermont Posts: 833	The board looks fine. I prefer eyelets to turrets. Winnie __________________ I have noticed that happy people are often evaluating themselves and unhappy people are always evaluating others. -William Glasser

April 30th, 2006, 07:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
getbent Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Benito County, California Posts: 10,585 37 Photos	Pete, it's *****en. It has no resemblance to the csmfsob you referred to that one night.... I'll bet it sounds great too! Be proud amigo! __________________ 'never pet a burning dog'

May 1st, 2006, 10:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
bluehonky Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2004 Location: Lehigh Valley Posts: 133	Nice! Great job, man. Looks killer. How would you rate the DIY experience? I know had to do some troubleshooting halfway through but it looks like it turned out perfect.

May 1st, 2006, 04:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
CancerLeoCam Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mule Deer-Mt. Lion Safari, CA Posts: 1,692 5 Photos	Huh? I personally prefer eyelets.

April 30th, 2006, 07:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,916	No twist on the heater wires? Sorry, couldn't resist. :P

May 1st, 2006, 03:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	You're too hard on yourself man! That looks NICE! Give them green heater wires a couple of tight twists, you'll drop some added hum/noise. I haven't even covered my cabs with tweed yet... or bought any shellac... it's midnight and I just finished building my 5D8 Twin... and holy crap does it sound killer! This next week I'll be rewiring one of my Telecasters (the one I use for slide in Open Tunings w/ humbuckers), and my ES-135 with a Fishman Powerbridge acoustic pickup... I doubt my tweed & shellac job will even come close to looking as cool as yours! Good job man, I am jealous of your amp-skinning skills! Some day, I'll learn... I am but a humble grasshopper :(

May 1st, 2006, 09:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,519 12 Photos	Well I didn't apply the tweed, it's a Mojo cab, pre-tweeded for my convenience, I just did the shellac. I'll give those wires a twist.

May 1st, 2006, 02:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
fezz parka Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: A town south of Bakersfield... Posts: 1,283 45 Photos	Go Pete! Now you've got every tweed you need.:D

May 1st, 2006, 04:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	What exactly is your objection to eyelets?

May 1st, 2006, 04:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,519 12 Photos	I think they're harder to work on if you screw up...and I did.

May 1st, 2006, 06:51 PM	#14 (permalink)
pgambon Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 127	I prefer turrets. Why? It's a better connection that will likely never fail. In a bygone era it was the military spec standard. That said, eyelets can work just fine. Do remember, you need metal to metal contact. So, kind of crimp your wires through and against the eyelet. Solder alone dosen't make a good connection! Also, leave a little extra wire on the component so it has some flex. Expansion/contraction can break resistor leads over time. Bad soldering,warped boards and broken leads are typical of the problems you will see in old Fender amps. ps Beautiful Champ!

May 2nd, 2006, 08:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,519 12 Photos	Who needs a marshall Stack, when you can have tweed? (Not that I ever would use that configuration, one at a time, please) Speaker arrived and it sounds very good already, no doubt will sound better after I break it in. It's about as bright as I need it now, but a 12AX7 is MUCH too gainy for me. I have a Mullard 12AT7 in it now and I think I'm going to settle on a 12AY7 if I can find a Mullard. I'll try to get some recording done tomorrow. I have enough demos floating around I can plug some Champ into them.

May 2nd, 2006, 09:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	Now you need a 15" Pro and a 3x10 Bandmaster.