Twins at low volume...

jdfoosh357 · April 25th, 2006, 02:56 PM

I'm pretty sure that the Twin is the amp for me. I play at home mostly, but I get called out on random gigs every once in a while. I've got a Champ now, but it doesn't cut it. My budget now either allows for a DRRI or a SFTR. My buddy has a Twin and it sounds fine at home on volume 1 or 2 for practice.

I play country music, so it's almost always clean, and I like a big deep sound. I figure I might as well get a Twin in case I ever need it (as opposed to a Deluxe or Bassman).

My point is..........

If I don't mind lugging it around, will a Twin sound good at small gigs when I can't turn it up?? I can't have several amps.

Thanks,
Jon

eksfiles · April 25th, 2006, 04:15 PM

I don't see why not...? If you leave it on 1 or 2 on the volume, you should have plenty of sweet, clear and strident tone for you to play any small gigs.

Since you said lugging one around isn't an issue (it is for most people), then I say go for it!!

Play around with the mids, it will affect the overall volume as Twins have a particular tone stack, as you will soon find out.

Good luck!

jdfoosh357 · April 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the comment.

Is it really that bad to lift a Twin (if you're healthy)?
Will it fit into the backseat of a mid-sized car?

tiktok · April 25th, 2006, 05:50 PM

I'd bring a power-soak type device with me to gigs to give you a little independence from tone and output level.

For me, if an amp is too loud half open, it's too much amp for the gig.

jdfoosh357 · April 25th, 2006, 06:00 PM

Do you mean like an attenuator?

tiktok · April 25th, 2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdfoosh357

Do you mean like an attenuator?

Yep, a Hot Plate, or whatever your preference is. I wish they made a Twin with one speaker and two output tubes--I've never needed anywhere near the full horsepower of a Twin, but it's a great sounding amp.

JohnnyCrash · April 25th, 2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdfoosh357

Do you mean like an attenuator?

Yep, a Hot Plate, or whatever your preference is. I wish they made a Twin with one speaker and two output tubes--I've never needed anywhere near the full horsepower of a Twin, but it's a great sounding amp.

There are some circuits that are pretty similar. One of the reasons they're called "Twins" is due to the 2 speaker setup.

I'm actually building a really low watt version as a head unit. It's the old '54 Twin (5D8 circuit). That runs a pair of 6L6s at about 25 watts.

tiktok · April 25th, 2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdfoosh357

Do you mean like an attenuator?

Yep, a Hot Plate, or whatever your preference is. I wish they made a Twin with one speaker and two output tubes--I've never needed anywhere near the full horsepower of a Twin, but it's a great sounding amp.

There are some circuits that are pretty similar. One of the reasons they're called "Twins" is due to the 2 speaker setup.

Sure, but what I'm thinking of is a "Fender Single Reverb Amp", which has all the same controls and preamp configuration as a TR, but only two power tubes and a single speaker. They made a Quad Reverb, right?

eksfiles · April 25th, 2006, 09:00 PM

You don't need an attenuator IMO. Good tones can be found with the volume on 1 to 2. If you need more juice, turn it up to 3-4 and just use the volume on your guitar to control the overall output. Don't buy gear that isn't necessary...like an attenuator.

If you don't mind lifting 65+ pounds of amp, and as long as you don't drive the worlds smallest car, I don't see why you couldn't put the amp in your back seat, or even the trunk.

Driving the rest of your bandmates may be another story altogether!!

tiktok · April 25th, 2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eksfiles

You don't need an attenuator IMO. Good tones can be found with the volume on 1 to 2. If you need more juice, turn it up to 3-4 and just use the volume on your guitar to control the overall output. Don't buy gear that isn't necessary...like an attenuator.

My point is if you're running the amp on 1 or 2, the unnecessary gear you've purchased sounds like a large output transformer, extra speaker, and two output tubes...

JohnnyCrash · April 25th, 2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

Sure, but what I'm thinking of is a "Fender Single Reverb Amp", which has all the same controls and preamp configuration as a TR, but only two power tubes and a single speaker. They made a Quad Reverb, right?

Quad? Maybe you're thinking of the Power Tube setup?

Anyways, as far as attenuators, they never sound exactly like the amp fully does fully cranked, BUT with amps, I prefer natural compression over the stompbox ones...

That being said, if you're looking for that bit of warmth and compression an amp has when turned up a bit, go for an attenuator OR, get an amp with lower headroom.

Otherwise a Twin still sounds cool at lower levels :)

tiktok · April 25th, 2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiktok

Sure, but what I'm thinking of is a "Fender Single Reverb Amp", which has all the same controls and preamp configuration as a TR, but only two power tubes and a single speaker. They made a Quad Reverb, right?

Quad? Maybe you're thinking of the Power Tube setup?

No--the Quad Reverb: it was a Twin Reverb with four 12's. It was from the same thinking as the Super Six Reverb (a Twin Reverb chassis driving a combo with six 10's).

stantheman · April 25th, 2006, 10:41 PM

Twins are fabulous Amps period !!!
Get a Sparkle Drive from Voodoo Labs.
Set it & forget it.
You can get some serious bargains on Silverface Twins.
Do not delay.

Tim Armstrong · April 25th, 2006, 11:16 PM

Jon, have you tried your Champ with that speaker cab yet?

Cheers, Tim

Scott S · April 25th, 2006, 11:50 PM

I say go for it, if you're young, strong, and willing to lug it around. Twins were meant for clean. If you don't need the cranked amp sound (a fact most posters are missing), then you've saved yourself money from extra doo-dads. :)

mojohen · April 26th, 2006, 12:20 AM

I just want to add. A Twin Reverb has the best Clean tone, and although it does get thicker and more compressed at high volumes, the tone is still all there at lower volumes. Also, They are loud, but, the difference from 4-7 is more in tone than decibels IMHO.
In my band, I use a strat with 11-58 strings, and run into a Super Reverb (40watts) and have a TS9/808 set for a clean boost. My volume is at 7-9 depending on the room. (7 for practice, 9 for large-ish venues.) This is loud, but not face melting..I hang well in the mix.We are a loud-assed band for sure.
I'm not suggesting a Super Reverb here,(big cab) just giving an example of volume for a 40 watt amp...
Try out the amps at volumes you'd use, and see what fills the bill. I'm thinking Vibrolux for size and power..
mojohen

JohnnyCrash · April 26th, 2006, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Jon, have you tried your Champ with that speaker cab yet?

Cheers, Tim

I know I've tried Champs into a 2x12" cab.

I've got the Champ head I built running a 6L6 right now, and my output transformer is multitapped for 4, 8, or 16 ohm operation.

With the closed back 2x12" Vintage 30s and 6L6... holy crap, that Champ kicks like a mule in the low mids/bass. With an EL34 it's got a real Led Zeppelin 1 "Supro" type of midrange quality to it.

Anyways, yeah a Champ in a 2x12" has a bit more volume, but probably not enough for gigs, for most folks.

Stan Martin · April 26th, 2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdfoosh357

I'm pretty sure that the Twin is the amp for me. I play at home mostly, but I get called out on random gigs every once in a while. I've got a Champ now, but it doesn't cut it. My budget now either allows for a DRRI or a SFTR. My buddy has a Twin and it sounds fine at home on volume 1 or 2 for practice.

I play country music, so it's almost always clean, and I like a big deep sound. I figure I might as well get a Twin in case I ever need it (as opposed to a Deluxe or Bassman).

My point is..........

If I don't mind lugging it around, will a Twin sound good at small gigs when I can't turn it up?? I can't have several amps.

Thanks,
Jon

Hi Jon,

I've done every kind of gig with my twin (coffee house,weddings,outdoor fests etc) and I've never had a problem. Make sure to fatten things up that you run your mids all the way up,low bass 2-3.5 (just enough for umph, but not mud) and treble not too high 5-7. Keep the bright switch off. I only use 2 pedals,Maxon AD80 and an AnalogMan modified Tube Screamer(set for light grit) and get a very warm punchy sound at low volumes. This is my country rig and works for Bakersfield twang, western swing or anything else.

jdfoosh357 · April 26th, 2006, 12:26 PM

Thanks for all your advice. I'm going to be looking out for a Twin, so it's time to start selling off a bunch of gear.

Edit: Now I have to decide whether I should splurge on a pre-1972 Twin or whether I'll go for the cheaper master-volume models. I've gotten mixed reviews about one being better than the other.

Tim,

The Champ definately has more punch with a 2x12 open backed cab, but at comparable volumes a Twin just has so much more fullness. I've been playing a buddies Twin lately at his house just for practice, and it blows everything else away for hot tele playing, etc.

mad dog · April 26th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Twins are great at any volume. I really like the SFTRs with master volumes, as the MV works quite well and lets you dial in a little grit at manageable volumes. If you can carry it, why not. You'll never get surpised by a loud gig that overpowers your amp. If I was willing to carry the weight, it would be a SR. Different flavor of clean. That's a personal preference, not a judgement. I always look forward to plugging into twins, as long as i don't have to walk them in.

5965 · April 26th, 2006, 06:44 PM

They sound great at low volume, and the tilt-back legs are useful. I've played some Master Volume models that were great- clean and distorted- with humbuckers. Dunno about s/c's; didn't have the opportunity.

The weight on them varies a lot depending on the speakers/magnets. Some of them aren't much more than Pro-Reverbs, and the backseat should be fine. If possible, being able to lay them down in a trunk would be a bit more stable and secure (for you and them).

No recommendations on era, that's subjective, but good luck.

hwestman · April 28th, 2006, 08:02 AM

Regarding which ones you should get I have been told to stay away from the 135W UL ones.

I also read about a neat mod that I am contemplating myself which amounts to disconnecting one of the speakers and adding a separate cord and plug so you can connect it to the external speaker jack. Then you have the option of removing two output tubes (inner or outer pair) and one speaker. Removing two tubes gives you the right impedance for one speaker (8 ohms).

I have also enjoyed some success with Ruby Tone Bones although they change the tone a bit, not for the worse though, just different....

Harald

One thing you could do is to

Scotland · April 28th, 2006, 09:29 AM

I have a '76 MV Twin and love it. I don't like the sound of the 135W Twins though, they somehow sound sterile and if you are playing at vol. 1-2 then it's not the Twin for you.
I get great sound from the twin at any volume but find the "tone" really comes alive at volume 3 and over.

Steven · April 28th, 2006, 09:48 AM

I got me a 1971 Twin (non MV) a few months ago and I´m so pleased with it. I have done some mods to it - I took it to a tech who replaced the filter caps and blackfaced it and I changed the speakers from the stock JBL D120Fs (didnt like them with my pedals) to a pair of Eminence Texas Heats. I believe the amp is slightly ligher after the speaker swap. I also got me a complete set of new tubes from Eurotubes.com. I´ve also done som minor tinkering inside (changing a cap here and there). The Twin suits me perfectly. I does sound good at low volume, but I use a THD Hotplate with it just to be able to drive it a little bit harder. You will not be drowned at the end of the gig when using a Twin - thers always some more volume on spare. It loves my pedalboard (but I have a A/B-switch so that I run my fuzz into thr normal channel with the treble on the amp down on 2-3).

tjalla · April 28th, 2006, 11:25 AM

A couple of times using rented Twins in smaller venues, I much prefer the sound and feel with the amp volume on 8 or higher, and the guitar vol knob on 3 or 4. Treble and mids on the amp needs to be bumped up doing this. Less "narrow" sounding than a Twin on 1-2 with the guitar vol on full.

Hope this helps...

Trev

Radman46 · April 28th, 2006, 12:30 PM

I agree having the volume up and guitar down sounds fatter. I like and use that for clean all the time. My question, how do you use an overdrive pedal with the amp volume up and guitar volume down? I use a TS9 or OD-3 and it seem both of those like the guitar volume to be hitting them pretty hard. Anybody have a trick to get around this situation? Thanks.

April 25th, 2006, 02:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	Twins at low volume... I'm pretty sure that the Twin is the amp for me. I play at home mostly, but I get called out on random gigs every once in a while. I've got a Champ now, but it doesn't cut it. My budget now either allows for a DRRI or a SFTR. My buddy has a Twin and it sounds fine at home on volume 1 or 2 for practice. I play country music, so it's almost always clean, and I like a big deep sound. I figure I might as well get a Twin in case I ever need it (as opposed to a Deluxe or Bassman). My point is.......... If I don't mind lugging it around, will a Twin sound good at small gigs when I can't turn it up?? I can't have several amps. Thanks, Jon

April 25th, 2006, 04:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
eksfiles Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Windsor, Ontario CANADA Posts: 148	Sure! I don't see why not...? If you leave it on 1 or 2 on the volume, you should have plenty of sweet, clear and strident tone for you to play any small gigs. Since you said lugging one around isn't an issue (it is for most people), then I say go for it!! Play around with the mids, it will affect the overall volume as Twins have a particular tone stack, as you will soon find out. Good luck! __________________ ...a little less conversation, a little more action...

April 25th, 2006, 05:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
tiktok Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,188	I'd bring a power-soak type device with me to gigs to give you a little independence from tone and output level. For me, if an amp is too loud half open, it's too much amp for the gig. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/travishartnett http://www.myspace.com/sugarcanemutiny Pearce Amps Info Page

April 25th, 2006, 09:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
eksfiles Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Windsor, Ontario CANADA Posts: 148	You don't need an attenuator IMO. Good tones can be found with the volume on 1 to 2. If you need more juice, turn it up to 3-4 and just use the volume on your guitar to control the overall output. Don't buy gear that isn't necessary...like an attenuator. If you don't mind lifting 65+ pounds of amp, and as long as you don't drive the worlds smallest car, I don't see why you couldn't put the amp in your back seat, or even the trunk. Driving the rest of your bandmates may be another story altogether!! __________________ ...a little less conversation, a little more action...

April 25th, 2006, 10:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
stantheman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: White Mountains Posts: 5,071	Twins are fabulous Amps period !!! Get a Sparkle Drive from Voodoo Labs. Set it & forget it. You can get some serious bargains on Silverface Twins. Do not delay. __________________ Somebody Loan Me A Dime

April 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	Thanks for the comment. Is it really that bad to lift a Twin (if you're healthy)? Will it fit into the backseat of a mid-sized car?

April 25th, 2006, 06:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	Do you mean like an attenuator?

April 25th, 2006, 11:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 10,258	Jon, have you tried your Champ with that speaker cab yet? Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

April 25th, 2006, 11:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,916	I say go for it, if you're young, strong, and willing to lug it around. Twins were meant for clean. If you don't need the cranked amp sound (a fact most posters are missing), then you've saved yourself money from extra doo-dads. :)

April 26th, 2006, 12:20 AM	#16 (permalink)
mojohen Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NY Posts: 177 12 Photos	I just want to add. A Twin Reverb has the best Clean tone, and although it does get thicker and more compressed at high volumes, the tone is still all there at lower volumes. Also, They are loud, but, the difference from 4-7 is more in tone than decibels IMHO. In my band, I use a strat with 11-58 strings, and run into a Super Reverb (40watts) and have a TS9/808 set for a clean boost. My volume is at 7-9 depending on the room. (7 for practice, 9 for large-ish venues.) This is loud, but not face melting..I hang well in the mix.We are a loud-assed band for sure. I'm not suggesting a Super Reverb here,(big cab) just giving an example of volume for a 40 watt amp... Try out the amps at volumes you'd use, and see what fills the bill. I'm thinking Vibrolux for size and power.. mojohen

April 26th, 2006, 12:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
jdfoosh357 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 566	Thanks for all your advice. I'm going to be looking out for a Twin, so it's time to start selling off a bunch of gear. Edit: Now I have to decide whether I should splurge on a pre-1972 Twin or whether I'll go for the cheaper master-volume models. I've gotten mixed reviews about one being better than the other. Tim, The Champ definately has more punch with a 2x12 open backed cab, but at comparable volumes a Twin just has so much more fullness. I've been playing a buddies Twin lately at his house just for practice, and it blows everything else away for hot tele playing, etc.

April 26th, 2006, 12:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
mad dog Tele-Holic Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 849	Twins are great at any volume. I really like the SFTRs with master volumes, as the MV works quite well and lets you dial in a little grit at manageable volumes. If you can carry it, why not. You'll never get surpised by a loud gig that overpowers your amp. If I was willing to carry the weight, it would be a SR. Different flavor of clean. That's a personal preference, not a judgement. I always look forward to plugging into twins, as long as i don't have to walk them in.

April 26th, 2006, 06:44 PM	#21 (permalink)
5965 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 738	They sound great at low volume, and the tilt-back legs are useful. I've played some Master Volume models that were great- clean and distorted- with humbuckers. Dunno about s/c's; didn't have the opportunity. The weight on them varies a lot depending on the speakers/magnets. Some of them aren't much more than Pro-Reverbs, and the backseat should be fine. If possible, being able to lay them down in a trunk would be a bit more stable and secure (for you and them). No recommendations on era, that's subjective, but good luck.

April 28th, 2006, 08:02 AM	#22 (permalink)
hwestman Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 394	Regarding which ones you should get I have been told to stay away from the 135W UL ones. I also read about a neat mod that I am contemplating myself which amounts to disconnecting one of the speakers and adding a separate cord and plug so you can connect it to the external speaker jack. Then you have the option of removing two output tubes (inner or outer pair) and one speaker. Removing two tubes gives you the right impedance for one speaker (8 ohms). I have also enjoyed some success with Ruby Tone Bones although they change the tone a bit, not for the worse though, just different.... Harald One thing you could do is to

April 28th, 2006, 09:29 AM	#23 (permalink)
Scotland Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, Yewrup Age: 54 Posts: 6,612 3 Photos	I have a '76 MV Twin and love it. I don't like the sound of the 135W Twins though, they somehow sound sterile and if you are playing at vol. 1-2 then it's not the Twin for you. I get great sound from the twin at any volume but find the "tone" really comes alive at volume 3 and over. __________________ All those who believe in psycho-kinesis, raise my hand !

April 28th, 2006, 09:48 AM	#24 (permalink)
Steven Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 511	I got me a 1971 Twin (non MV) a few months ago and I´m so pleased with it. I have done some mods to it - I took it to a tech who replaced the filter caps and blackfaced it and I changed the speakers from the stock JBL D120Fs (didnt like them with my pedals) to a pair of Eminence Texas Heats. I believe the amp is slightly ligher after the speaker swap. I also got me a complete set of new tubes from Eurotubes.com. I´ve also done som minor tinkering inside (changing a cap here and there). The Twin suits me perfectly. I does sound good at low volume, but I use a THD Hotplate with it just to be able to drive it a little bit harder. You will not be drowned at the end of the gig when using a Twin - thers always some more volume on spare. It loves my pedalboard (but I have a A/B-switch so that I run my fuzz into thr normal channel with the treble on the amp down on 2-3).

April 28th, 2006, 11:25 AM	#25 (permalink)
tjalla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,947 7 Photos	Low volume with a Twin... A couple of times using rented Twins in smaller venues, I much prefer the sound and feel with the amp volume on 8 or higher, and the guitar vol knob on 3 or 4. Treble and mids on the amp needs to be bumped up doing this. Less "narrow" sounding than a Twin on 1-2 with the guitar vol on full. Hope this helps... Trev

April 28th, 2006, 12:30 PM	#26 (permalink)
Radman46 TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 86	Question from Tjalla's post above ??? I agree having the volume up and guitar down sounds fatter. I like and use that for clean all the time. My question, how do you use an overdrive pedal with the amp volume up and guitar volume down? I use a TS9 or OD-3 and it seem both of those like the guitar volume to be hitting them pretty hard. Anybody have a trick to get around this situation? Thanks.