Lil' Dawg Princeton version

tdu · April 23rd, 2006, 02:09 PM

Hey guys. I just thought I should let you know that Lil' Dawg offers a Princeton version as well. Jim said he doesn't mention it much because not many people ask about them. From what I can tell on these forums, they are a very popular amp though. I was suprised when I casually asked about Princetons in an email and he said he builds them.

I told him he should come up with a name so I could tell people in the forums and he is thinking about "Princetone".

Now I am at a total loss trying to decide between a Champster Special or a Princeton

. I have 3 weeks till my build starts to decide.

JohnnyCrash · April 23rd, 2006, 03:52 PM

A Princeton is simply a Champ with a Tone control.

That's literally all it is!

Both the Princeton and the Champ are the same watts, with the same guts.

Same exact amps, just one has a Tone control.

tdu · April 23rd, 2006, 03:59 PM

Johnny,

I have had a few people tell me there is a key difference and that is that the Princetons don't overdrive as easily. I have had 2 people who own one of each tell me the Princeton can be almost completely cranked and not overdrive. That info has me leaning towards the Champster Special because the 'pushed' sound is what I am looking for.

But anyway, I posted this just because I thought there would be some interest in the 'new' model.

JohnnyCrash · April 23rd, 2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdu

Johnny,

I have had a few people tell me there is a key difference and that is that the Princetons don't overdrive as easily. I have had 2 people who own one of each tell me the Princeton can be almost completely cranked and not overdrive. That info has me leaning towards the Champster Special because the 'pushed' sound is what I am looking for.

But anyway, I posted this just because I thought there would be some interest in the 'new' model.

I didn't know anybody ever ran em under 10! HAHA

Yeah, a little bit different, but BARELY. Especially the way Champs/Princetons are used... mostly cranked for cool OD sounds.

Go to Ampwares.com and check out their circuits... they're pretty much the same amps.

paddywhack · April 24th, 2006, 11:42 AM

...don't know about Jims Princetons but i got to play my Champster Special out last nite and it is sweet ....really sweet....with the volume at about 3/4's and a little push with a Keeley compressor my Tele was fat and warm and loud enough to hang unmiked at a pretty loud outdoor gig...thats runnin it through a Weber Blue Dog which is not all that an efficient speaker....tweed tone in spades....now i'm gonna have to get a 5E3...shucks

Hamer95USA · January 9th, 2007, 08:14 AM

Hey tdu,

I wasn't aware that Jim was building tweed Princeton clone amps. I saw that a couple people had the Champster with a tone control. I had no idea those amps were Princeton tweed amps. If anyone asks about Jim's amps, I can say that he builds tweed Champster, D-Lux, Princeton and Bassman style amps. Thanks for sharing the information everybody.

Guitar George

tdu · January 9th, 2007, 08:33 AM

Hamer, I think Jim will pretty much build people anything they want tweed wise. He will modify the design to suit your liking.

Kbibs · January 9th, 2007, 09:04 AM

According to Angela Instruments website besides the tone control difference the output transformer is bigger on the 5F2-A Princeton's yielding more bass and more volume prior to distortion. You can check out this site:

http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/Single.6V6.html

I'm not sure of the accuracy of this but maybe someone more knowledgable could shed some light. The ampwares sight might have some info on this. If that's the case you may want to ask Jim the differences between the two.

Gee · January 9th, 2007, 10:54 AM

The 5F2-A (Princeton) is the same circuit as the 5F1 (Champ) but with a tone control and an extra cap in the power filtering. The Princeton was originally made with a bigger OT but I would think that Lil Dawg uses a bigger than original OT anyway. The tone control does drop the gain a small amount but there is still loads of gain with it.

BTW The original 5F2 had a choke in the power supply which was dropped as a cost cutting measure in the 5F2-A. Maybe Lil Dawg are putting a choke in the Princeton.

I have upgraded my 5F1 to a 5F2/5F2-A by adding the better 5F2-A tone control, extra 16uF cap and also the 5F2 choke. It all adds up to a much tighter low end.

popthree · January 9th, 2007, 02:13 PM

i wonder why he doesn't do a reverb

tdu · January 9th, 2007, 04:48 PM

I am definitely no expert, but none of the tweed amps had reverb did they? Tweed amps are 'his thing'.

popthree · January 9th, 2007, 05:39 PM

i dunno, but it would be nice if he would add reverb to his princeton

Rob DiStefano · January 9th, 2007, 08:57 PM

Ian, trust me on this - you WANT the 25w D-Lux. The tweed Princeton yer describing is in effect the Champster Special - no more, no less.

Also, check yer PM's.

Rob DiStefano · January 9th, 2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popthree

i wonder why he doesn't do a reverb

Jim, like me, is into that tweed overdriven 6V6/6L6 tone through a really good speaker (or two). There's NO need for reverb. For some (most?) of us "Tweed heads", reverb is actually NOT desired as it gets in the way of the natural harmonic distortion as the amp is cranked to its full and righteous potential. If you've never heard a really good small Fender vintage-build tube amp cranked to the max, compressing the valves, as it's fed by a good Tele or Strat or P90, you'll hear why reverb (or any other FX) just gets in the way. IMHO. YMMV.

tdu · January 9th, 2007, 09:05 PM

Rob, this is actually a really old thread someone posted in. This was from before I even ordered an amp from Jim.

Rob DiStefano · January 9th, 2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdu

Rob, this is actually a really old thread someone posted in. This was from before I even ordered an amp from Jim.

Ah so. I'm old, I forget things ... like reading post dates.

OaklandA · January 9th, 2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Ian, trust me on this - you WANT the 25w D-Lux. The tweed Princeton yer describing is in effect the Champster Special - no more, no less.

Also, check yer PM's.

+1 on this and then some.

The Li'l Dawg Champster (and I'm guessing the Princeton) is a freaking great amp that's a lot of fun and maybe the perfect practice/jam/recording amp.

However...the 25 watt D-Lux is absolute perfection. Has several more flavors of tone at hand and the added volume makes it more versatile. I've had mine a little over 2 weeks now and can't stay off of it.

By the way...Jim also has made versions of the Tweed Pro, Bassman, and lo-watt Twin and has been open to taking custom orders like that from time to time. The guy is the King of Tweed Tone fer sher.

.

popthree · January 10th, 2007, 04:49 PM

reverb not needed? what? but i like reverb.

obviously, you are a caveman

tdu · January 10th, 2007, 06:53 PM

popthree, I never thought I would own an amp without Reverb. Especially considering my love of surf music :) . But mine (and I would guess other tweed models) so good and so 'pure' without reverb that I honestly can't even imagine using reverb with these amps.

andrew · January 12th, 2007, 02:45 AM

About how much do those d-lux's go for? Just wondering.

Rob DiStefano · January 12th, 2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew

About how much do those d-lux's go for? Just wondering.

Call or email Jim @ Li'l Dawg Amps

www.littledawgamps.com

Tim Armstrong · January 12th, 2007, 07:17 AM

Just a late thought on something from much earlier in the thread...

The non-reverb Princetons that don't distort aren't the tweed ones, but rather the BF/SF ones!

Cheers, Tim

stevieboy · January 12th, 2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Just a late thought on something from much earlier in the thread...

The non-reverb Princetons that don't distort aren't the tweed ones, but rather the BF/SF ones!

Cheers, Tim

True, I know a keyboard player, a breed that of course generally don't care for distortion, who uses a non reverb SF Princeton in clubs, and it really sounds great in that application.

April 23rd, 2006, 02:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	Lil' Dawg Princeton version Hey guys. I just thought I should let you know that Lil' Dawg offers a Princeton version as well. Jim said he doesn't mention it much because not many people ask about them. From what I can tell on these forums, they are a very popular amp though. I was suprised when I casually asked about Princetons in an email and he said he builds them. I told him he should come up with a name so I could tell people in the forums and he is thinking about "Princetone". Now I am at a total loss trying to decide between a Champster Special or a Princeton . I have 3 weeks till my build starts to decide. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

April 23rd, 2006, 03:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	Johnny, I have had a few people tell me there is a key difference and that is that the Princetons don't overdrive as easily. I have had 2 people who own one of each tell me the Princeton can be almost completely cranked and not overdrive. That info has me leaning towards the Champster Special because the 'pushed' sound is what I am looking for. But anyway, I posted this just because I thought there would be some interest in the 'new' model. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

January 9th, 2007, 08:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hamer95USA TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: northern Cali Posts: 99	Hey tdu, I wasn't aware that Jim was building tweed Princeton clone amps. I saw that a couple people had the Champster with a tone control. I had no idea those amps were Princeton tweed amps. If anyone asks about Jim's amps, I can say that he builds tweed Champster, D-Lux, Princeton and Bassman style amps. Thanks for sharing the information everybody. Guitar George __________________ Guitars: Hamer USA, Gibson, Fender Amps:Lil' Dawg Champster Special, Marshall 6101, Rocktron Vendetta, Omega Amps modded Hot Rod Deluxe, Mesa Boogie Simul-Satellite, ADA Depot 3TM mod MP-1 preamp, Hughes & Kettner Tubeman Effects:Area 51 wah, Boss (CE-2, RV-2, OC-2, AC-2), Xotic, MI Audio, Analogman, MXR, Korg I like my Omega Amps modded Hot Rod Deluxe!! Ya gotta problem with that? My avatars has been changed for your viewing pleasure!!!

January 9th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	Hamer, I think Jim will pretty much build people anything they want tweed wise. He will modify the design to suit your liking. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

January 9th, 2007, 02:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,949 49 Photos	i wonder why he doesn't do a reverb __________________ "chips are falling....." -Dr. Johnny Fever

April 23rd, 2006, 03:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
JohnnyCrash Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lost Angeles and Orange County Posts: 7,128	A Princeton is simply a Champ with a Tone control. That's literally all it is! Both the Princeton and the Champ are the same watts, with the same guts. Same exact amps, just one has a Tone control.

April 24th, 2006, 11:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
paddywhack TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	...don't know about Jims Princetons but i got to play my Champster Special out last nite and it is sweet ....really sweet....with the volume at about 3/4's and a little push with a Keeley compressor my Tele was fat and warm and loud enough to hang unmiked at a pretty loud outdoor gig...thats runnin it through a Weber Blue Dog which is not all that an efficient speaker....tweed tone in spades....now i'm gonna have to get a 5E3...shucks

January 9th, 2007, 09:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Kbibs TDPRI Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 75	According to Angela Instruments website besides the tone control difference the output transformer is bigger on the 5F2-A Princeton's yielding more bass and more volume prior to distortion. You can check out this site: http://www.angela.com/catalog/how-to/Single.6V6.html I'm not sure of the accuracy of this but maybe someone more knowledgable could shed some light. The ampwares sight might have some info on this. If that's the case you may want to ask Jim the differences between the two.

January 9th, 2007, 10:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
Gee Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 309	The 5F2-A (Princeton) is the same circuit as the 5F1 (Champ) but with a tone control and an extra cap in the power filtering. The Princeton was originally made with a bigger OT but I would think that Lil Dawg uses a bigger than original OT anyway. The tone control does drop the gain a small amount but there is still loads of gain with it. BTW The original 5F2 had a choke in the power supply which was dropped as a cost cutting measure in the 5F2-A. Maybe Lil Dawg are putting a choke in the Princeton. I have upgraded my 5F1 to a 5F2/5F2-A by adding the better 5F2-A tone control, extra 16uF cap and also the 5F2 choke. It all adds up to a much tighter low end.

January 9th, 2007, 04:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	I am definitely no expert, but none of the tweed amps had reverb did they? Tweed amps are 'his thing'. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

January 9th, 2007, 05:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,949 49 Photos	i dunno, but it would be nice if he would add reverb to his princeton __________________ "chips are falling....." -Dr. Johnny Fever

January 9th, 2007, 08:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 63 Posts: 4,915	Ian, trust me on this - you WANT the 25w D-Lux. The tweed Princeton yer describing is in effect the Champster Special - no more, no less. Also, check yer PM's.

January 9th, 2007, 09:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	Rob, this is actually a really old thread someone posted in. This was from before I even ordered an amp from Jim. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

January 10th, 2007, 04:49 PM	#18 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,949 49 Photos	reverb not needed? what? but i like reverb. obviously, you are a caveman __________________ "chips are falling....." -Dr. Johnny Fever

January 10th, 2007, 06:53 PM	#19 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	popthree, I never thought I would own an amp without Reverb. Especially considering my love of surf music :) . But mine (and I would guess other tweed models) so good and so 'pure' without reverb that I honestly can't even imagine using reverb with these amps. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

January 12th, 2007, 02:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
andrew Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: Valley Ranch, TX Posts: 799 5 Photos	About how much do those d-lux's go for? Just wondering.

January 12th, 2007, 07:17 AM	#22 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 10,260	Just a late thought on something from much earlier in the thread... The non-reverb Princetons that don't distort aren't the tweed ones, but rather the BF/SF ones! Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org