(sniff) I think I blew my 12F150 in my DR...

trag-o-caster · April 4th, 2006, 03:16 PM

... (sobs) it became really farty and buzzy at the end of the gig last Saturday night.

I seem to remember someone, somewhere, saying that Webers weren't holding up over the long haul for some reason. Does anyone else remember hearing this?

I'm really tempted to try out a Celestion G12H-30 this time around. Hmmmm........

Wally · April 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM

Trag, the Eminence British cone LEgend GB 128 is a great speaker.

alotas123 · April 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM

If it's blown, Ted will recone it for a nominal charge. I have not had any problems with Weber speakers, although I've only been using them for about three years now.

-alotas

Tremo · April 4th, 2006, 06:11 PM

Yeah, send it back to Ted, he recones his own at a real reasonable price. And go with a 50 Watt coil this time.

trag-o-caster · April 4th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tremo

Yeah, send it back to Ted, he recones his own at a real reasonable price. And go with a 50 Watt coil this time.

50 watter, light dope is what I got. I've been using it at near full up volumes for several months, so it's no small wonder eh?

I'm seriously considering something more British sounding - perhaps the 1230, or something to warm things up even more. I'm not sure yet.

tom grossheider · April 4th, 2006, 07:24 PM

A 50 watter blew in a DR? Find that unusual Trag, as Ted's speakers seem to hold up pretty well. Mr Pierce has a method of "tweaking" to correct a voice coil rub, may want to ask him about it. A G12H-80 sounds good in a DR though, and also an EMI Black Powder for something more Fender-ish.

Dacious · April 4th, 2006, 09:03 PM

Just putting a higher-capability speaker in a low wattage amp is not a guarantee you won't blow it - in fact depending on the speakers' high-frequency power handling capability it may in fact be worse than using a speaker of the correct wattage. Most 12" speakers start signing off over about 5Khz, so driving it with treble wound up at high vols will be working it hard.

If you have lots of gain in front (tubesecreamer-type overdrive or distortion); coupled with a little ultrasonic feedback the amp is producing being wound out so far, that you may not be hearing, that will blow a big(ger) voicecoil too. Making it produce too many short sharp repetitive movements at volume is not nice. Small speakers by and large hate being made to produce bass freqs at volume, big speakers hate being made to produce high freqs at volume.

It may be that you need more amplifier and/or more speakers to play at the current level so you don't buzz one or the other so hard. Running a DR this hard is also going to be not kind to it's output tranny, either.

Scott S · April 4th, 2006, 09:49 PM

Trag, you just aren't easy on amps, are you? ;)

Joe-Bob · April 4th, 2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

I seem to remember someone, somewhere, saying that Webers weren't holding up over the long haul for some reason. Does anyone else remember hearing this?

I've heard this more than once.

Tremo · April 5th, 2006, 03:46 AM

Woah, a DR should not be able to blow a 50 watter. Call Ted and discuss this.

rmconner80 · April 5th, 2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

I seem to remember someone, somewhere, saying that Webers weren't holding up over the long haul for some reason. Does anyone else remember hearing this?

I've heard this more than once.

First time hearing this for me, and contrary to my experience (been using new and used ones for 4-3 years in all my amps). Only time will tell.

mark norwine · April 5th, 2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Woah, a DR should not be able to blow a 50 watter.

Hi John,

In this case, I'm not so sure I agree.....

A DR, when cranked, is producing a square wave...which asks that the speaker cone move to maximum excursion and stay there for the duration of the waveform peak, during which time the coil is heating beyond its design parameters.

My point is, with a sine wave...even a sine wave with overtones superimposed....there's fairly constant motion, and the resultant heating should be acceptable.

But when asked to stand stationary at maximum excursion, it's doesn't take much to thermally distort a VC. In a tight-gapped speaker, a small amount of distortion can become a pretty significant rub....

Melt the coil open? Probably not....in that regard I agree with you. But trag didn't say it "went silent"...he said it got buzzy & farty. Sounds like a rub to me....and I have no doubt that a 22W amp {when pushed way beyond that figure} could distort the coil of a tight-gapped speaker. I've done it many times myself.

mn

Tremo · April 5th, 2006, 04:57 PM

Hi Mark, yes, I see what you mean. And yes, now that I re-read his post, he definitely has a rub, but not "blown" (dead).

This causes me to wonder. I have really been pounding my BFDR lately, basically to torture test the JJ 6V6s, but maybe I'm also torturing the P12N in the thing. So far it hasn't objected. And the JJs are still playing strong. I will be seriously pissed at myself if I blow that P12N. It's a recone (12 years old approx. on the cone, the frame is from the late 50s).

Still though, depending on the frequency, that square wave should have some droop in the top due to the OT's frequency response and the sag in the PS.

mark norwine · April 5th, 2006, 05:14 PM

John,

I sent you a PM.....

Best,

mn

Tremo · April 5th, 2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark norwine

John,

I sent you a PM.....

Best,

mn

And I responded.

J

trag-o-caster · April 9th, 2006, 12:53 PM

Well I fired the durn thing up right here in the apartment (we've got some new neighbors next door, and I really needed to "break them in"

), and I'm really not sure if I did blow it up. It seemed fine, and I played it at various volumes to be sure - including full up (sorry neighbors).

So.... hmmm.... the mystery begins.....

I'll have to wait until all the kids are back in school and research this further. Maybe it was just some kind of sympathetic vibration on the bandstand or something???

Yet, on the flipside of that, I did have regular schmoes come out of the crowd and tell me "Hey man, there's something wrong with your amp". They may not know the difference between a B# and a C natural (hee hee) but when they come up and say that something sounds wrong - they're usually right. Go figure.

David Barnett · April 9th, 2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trag-o-caster

I'm really tempted to try out a Celestion G12H-30 this time around. Hmmmm........

I've connected my Deluxe-Amp to one of those a couple of times, and it's a great sound. Less SRV and more JH, if you get my drift, compared to a typical Jensen-voiced speaker one would normally find in a Deluxe.

My G12H30 is an Avatar Hellatone 30, which resides in a "Marshall" #1974 18W combo clone.

David Barnett · April 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM

As for the "blown" speaker, I'm gonna guess that during the course of the gig as the heat of the voice coil increased, it got out of tolerance and was rubbing in the gap. After the gig it cooled down and returned to acceptable dimensions. I predict it will do this again and again, now that it has happened once. I'd call Ted and ask him what can be done about it.

trag-o-caster · April 9th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

As for the "blown" speaker, I'm gonna guess that during the course of the gig as the heat of the voice coil increased, it got out of tolerance and was rubbing in the gap. After the gig it cooled down and returned to acceptable dimensions. I predict it will do this again and again, now that it has happened once. I'd call Ted and ask him what can be done about it.

Good call David! I didn't think about that - thanks a bunch!

I'll be giving Ted a call fer surrrre.

April 4th, 2006, 03:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
trag-o-caster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Flushing, Michigan Posts: 4,631	(sniff) I think I blew my 12F150 in my DR... ... (sobs) it became really farty and buzzy at the end of the gig last Saturday night. I seem to remember someone, somewhere, saying that Webers weren't holding up over the long haul for some reason. Does anyone else remember hearing this? I'm really tempted to try out a Celestion G12H-30 this time around. Hmmmm........ __________________ Timothy Jon Lamb

April 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
alotas123 Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hill Country Texas Posts: 470	If it's blown, Ted will recone it for a nominal charge. I have not had any problems with Weber speakers, although I've only been using them for about three years now. -alotas __________________ Play that thing, make it sing!

April 4th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dacious Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Godzone Posts: 2,623 35 Photos	Just putting a higher-capability speaker in a low wattage amp is not a guarantee you won't blow it - in fact depending on the speakers' high-frequency power handling capability it may in fact be worse than using a speaker of the correct wattage. Most 12" speakers start signing off over about 5Khz, so driving it with treble wound up at high vols will be working it hard. If you have lots of gain in front (tubesecreamer-type overdrive or distortion); coupled with a little ultrasonic feedback the amp is producing being wound out so far, that you may not be hearing, that will blow a big(ger) voicecoil too. Making it produce too many short sharp repetitive movements at volume is not nice. Small speakers by and large hate being made to produce bass freqs at volume, big speakers hate being made to produce high freqs at volume. It may be that you need more amplifier and/or more speakers to play at the current level so you don't buzz one or the other so hard. Running a DR this hard is also going to be not kind to it's output tranny, either. __________________ My other Telecaster is a Thinline The Tele Bible, Ch 1, v 10 Love thy Telecaster, covet not thy neighbour's Strat!

April 5th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
mark norwine Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 50 Posts: 1,382	John, I sent you a PM..... Best, mn __________________ "Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm." Frank Zappa

April 9th, 2006, 12:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
trag-o-caster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Flushing, Michigan Posts: 4,631	Well I fired the durn thing up right here in the apartment (we've got some new neighbors next door, and I really needed to "break them in" ), and I'm really not sure if I did blow it up. It seemed fine, and I played it at various volumes to be sure - including full up (sorry neighbors). So.... hmmm.... the mystery begins..... I'll have to wait until all the kids are back in school and research this further. Maybe it was just some kind of sympathetic vibration on the bandstand or something??? Yet, on the flipside of that, I did have regular schmoes come out of the crowd and tell me "Hey man, there's something wrong with your amp". They may not know the difference between a B# and a C natural (hee hee) but when they come up and say that something sounds wrong - they're usually right. Go figure. __________________ Timothy Jon Lamb

April 4th, 2006, 03:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Trag, the Eminence British cone LEgend GB 128 is a great speaker.

April 4th, 2006, 06:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	Yeah, send it back to Ted, he recones his own at a real reasonable price. And go with a 50 Watt coil this time.

April 4th, 2006, 07:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
tom grossheider Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mokena, IL Posts: 742	A 50 watter blew in a DR? Find that unusual Trag, as Ted's speakers seem to hold up pretty well. Mr Pierce has a method of "tweaking" to correct a voice coil rub, may want to ask him about it. A G12H-80 sounds good in a DR though, and also an EMI Black Powder for something more Fender-ish.

April 4th, 2006, 09:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,916	Trag, you just aren't easy on amps, are you? ;)

April 5th, 2006, 03:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	Woah, a DR should not be able to blow a 50 watter. Call Ted and discuss this.

April 5th, 2006, 04:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Tremo Banned Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA, USA Posts: 3,803	Hi Mark, yes, I see what you mean. And yes, now that I re-read his post, he definitely has a rub, but not "blown" (dead). This causes me to wonder. I have really been pounding my BFDR lately, basically to torture test the JJ 6V6s, but maybe I'm also torturing the P12N in the thing. So far it hasn't objected. And the JJs are still playing strong. I will be seriously pissed at myself if I blow that P12N. It's a recone (12 years old approx. on the cone, the frame is from the late 50s). Still though, depending on the frequency, that square wave should have some droop in the top due to the OT's frequency response and the sag in the PS.

April 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	As for the "blown" speaker, I'm gonna guess that during the course of the gig as the heat of the voice coil increased, it got out of tolerance and was rubbing in the gap. After the gig it cooled down and returned to acceptable dimensions. I predict it will do this again and again, now that it has happened once. I'd call Ted and ask him what can be done about it.