BF Super Reverb Speakers

[stormin]

Hey y'all,

I'm sure this has been beaten to death, but last night I picked up a '67 Super Reverb that has two Eminence Patriot Copperheads and two Eminence Redcoat Ramrod's placed in an X-pattern. They sound awfully bright to my ears.

Can anyone recommend some other speaker choices for a Super Reverb? Are these Emi's a good choice? Maybe they need broken in - I'm not real sure. I just want to get a little more punch and grind with a little less high end.

Thanks,

Stormin!

[Wally]

Maybe you need some AlNiCo's...Eminence 10ALK's are good speakers and WEber makes some good AlNiCo's.
AlNiCo's in general have earlier breakup with smoother top end. Of course, one wonders about the set-up of the amp...bias especially. If the amp is overbiased(cold), the speaker change would not help much....plus the cost of biasing is negligible compared to 4 new speakers.

[Tremo]

You know, some guys really like their amps bright. I know a real good player, but his tone is soooo very bright that it's painful to listen to. Pure icepick. I've heard a LOT of guys out there with real bright tone, I guess the former owner of your amp was one of 'em. Oh, I assume you do have the bright switch turned off?

OK, so you have a mix of Emmi Patriots and Redcoats, and they're not happening for you. I doubt that alnico P10R clones (by whomever) would do it for you either, they're pretty durn bright as well. Looking at Emmi's graphs, I suspect it's the Copperheads that are objectionably bright. If you want a darker voiced meaty 10 incher, look at the Weber 10F150. The emmi Delta Demon models also look to have less highs, but I also notice they're like 4 dB less efficient, so you'd suffer a volume drop with them.

I say replace the copperheads with the Webers and see how you like that.

[Wally]

Tremo, you make a valid point. I did some work on a local pro's SR and had it sounding very good to my ear. I usually set the tones all on 5 for a good starting place.
Dan came in, sat down in front of the amp, and put the Treble on 10 with the mid and bass on 1-2 before he ever hit a lick. Icepick! I knew right then that he had lost his high end hearing and was compensating by emphasizing the end of the range so that it sounded 'normal' to him. We each hear what our ears allow us to hear.

[Dacious]

You only have to listen to Buddy Guy to hear this in operation.

Great player, but treble......

[Big Mike Simpson]

I put Jensen reissue C10Q speakers in my 65, my 66 has some Electro Harmonix ceramic speakers in it that sound pretty good. The Weber black frame speakers are supposed to be real good but they are more $ than the Jensens.

[mark norwine]

hey big mike...

cool boston!

mn

[Tremo]

Originally Posted by Big Mike Simpson

I put Jensen reissue C10Q speakers in my 65, my 66 has some Electro Harmonix ceramic speakers in it that sound pretty good. The Weber black frame speakers are supposed to be real good but they are more $ than the Jensens.

Dood! The guy was complaining that his amp is *too bright*. He needs *darker* speakers. The RI C10Q and the Kendrick blackframes are notorious for being VERY bright. Just the opposite of what he says he needs! They are nowhere near as warm and meaty sounding as a Weber 10F150. Not even close. LOL. The RI C10Q can be improved with the acetone treatment.

Dacious - While I deeply respect Buddy Guy for his significant contributions, as of late, I just can't stand his tone.

[JamonHamon]

Hi, If I was you I would call and talk to Pete at Victoria Amps they build some of the best Amps in the world and they sound check all of the best speakers made available today. I did just that after buying three wrong Weber speakers a alnico 10a100-10a125 and weber 12" Alnico Bluedog They all sounded muddy but the bluesdog just sounded OK, Pete told me to get a Jensen P12Q and wow this amp is SOOOOOO!!! good sounding now!!!! www.victoriaamp.com Pete 630-820-6400 and they sale speakers to Tell him Dale Hamon sent you!!!!!

[DavidP]

I really like a quad of Webers Signature Alnico 10S speakers in a Super Reverb. For a few years I had a combo of his Vinatge C10N/P10Q speakers but the weight of the amp (especially the C10Ns was) getting to be too much, and there was a ton of headroom with these highly efficient speakers. I bought a quad of the alnico sigs last summer when they were on sale and I like them better!! A really nice breakup starting around 5 and the amp is luggable again!!

[Dacious]

Originally Posted by Tremo

Dacious - While I deeply respect Buddy Guy for his significant contributions, as of late, I just can't stand his tone.

Yeah, saw Festival Express on the tube the other night - even in the early 70's he tended towards the unpleasantly high-end of the tonal spectrum, now he's catscratch city. Eminently worthy of respect as a great blues stylist, though.

[stormin]

Originally Posted by Tremo

Oh, I assume you do have the bright switch turned off?

Tremo, I definately have the Bright switch off, but I appreciate the suggestion.

Part of my rationale for the overly bright comment is that I've been ABing the Super with my BF Twin Reverb. Granted, the Twin currently has V30's in it, but it has a very fat, warm, somewhat middy clean tone to it. What I'd like to get out of the Super is more warmth and meat to the tone. Right now it just doesn't have as much of the punch and depth that I think a 4x10 should exhibit. Hopefully this analogy makes sense. I'm just missing that in my sound.

...Stormin!

P.S. - I think that Buddy's tone from the Damn Right era sounds wonderful (just thought nI'd add some fuel to that fire).

[Big Mike Simpson]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

hey big mike...

cool boston!

mn

Thanks Mark, That's my dog Ralph... he's about 12 years old and he went blind a few years back... He's a real good dog and a fine band mascot.

Originally Posted by Tremo

Dood! The guy was complaining that his amp is *too bright*. He needs *darker* speakers. The RI C10Q and the Kendrick blackframes are notorious for being VERY bright. Just the opposite of what he says he needs! They are nowhere near as warm and meaty sounding as a Weber 10F150. Not even close. LOL. The RI C10Q can be improved with the acetone treatment.

Sorry if you think my post was out of line...
The topic is : BF Super Reverb Speakers
What stormin said in his first post was : "I just want to get a little more punch and grind with a little less high end."

I am not familiar with Eminence Patriot Copperheads or Eminence Redcoat Ramrod's so I have no point of reference here.... I simply stated what I use. There are sound files on our web site and on myspace.

The way I set my amp and guitar I do not perceive my setup as overly bright and it has better "punch" than many others I have heard.... he asked for "more punch", if you want less highs turn down the "very bright" knob.

There has not been any mention of tone settings... I set mine at 6-6-5 as a starting point for a room with the volume at 3 to 4... sometimes I have to roll the bass or treble up or down to suit the room.

I am not an "amp dummy"...
I currently own...
49 tv deluxe
49 tv pro
52 wp pro
65 super reverb
66 super reverb (2 of them)
65RI super reverb
65RI deluxe reverb
74 princeton reverb
68 dual showman reverb
showman 2x15 cab w/ jbl's
bandmaster 2x12 cab w/ jbl's

[Wally]

Stormin', since this amp is new to you, I have to ask if you have gone over the amp? Does it have original electrolytics? If it does, you can spend money from now on buying speakers and tubes; but the amp will never have that warm, beefy, well-defined punch that we all like. A BFSR with original caps will be flaccid, non-dimensional and generally wimpy sounding amp.

[5965]

Originally Posted by Wally

A BFSR with original caps will be flaccid, non-dimensional and generally wimpy sounding amp.

Mine aren't. :)

What guitar? Some BFSR's sound extremely chimey (and do a good 12-string Rick impersonation) with single coils when working properly. They did when they were brand new.

If you don't know the history of the amp, making sure it's operating properly and doesn't pose a safety hazard (to you or itself) is a good idea.

Speakers are kind of the last link in a long chain.

[5965]

BTW, if you have the mids over 5 or 6 on some BFSR's, that'll increase the high end brightness rather than reduce it as you might expect. The bass acts on the mid-range similarly. If you haven't tried starting with them in the 5-6 range and going both up and down individually, it might be worth doing so.

[stormin]

Hey all - and thanks for the continued help on this.

The amp has had a recent re-cap and retube, and should be operating well. I have the repair bill from two weeks before I bought it.

I've been running the tones as t:6 m:8 b:6. I'll have to try lowering the mids a bit as suggested above and report back.

...Stormin!

[5965]

If you cycle the mids from 0 to 10 while hitting some strings, you'll hear the difference. Actually 6 for treble can be high with some guitars on those amps. Sometimes, around 3 (or even lower, shockingly), can be enough. It just depends on the amp, the pot and personal preferences. At any rate, the underlying point is that the tone controls interact more than some people, including me, might expect. Enjoy the amp!

[Dr.Tom]

I've got a couple of Super Reverbs, they're both early '68s and have Black Face electronics. I have CTS's in one and Jensen C10Qs in the other . The Jensens sound fine after you break them in. I've got C10Q's in my '66 Vibrolux Reverb and one of my '68 Vibrolux Reverbs. I'd go with the Jensens.





Regards,

Tom
2005 PRS Modern Eagle Charcoal 20th Ann., 2005 PRS CU24 20th Ann.Artist,toggle switch push/pull- Blue Matteo ; Two 1997 PRS Santana 1's, both Sunburst ; 1965 SG Special - White ; 1963 Fender Strat- sunburst ; 1964 Gretsch Country Gent-dark walnut ; 2001 Gibson ES-335 - natural ; 2004 Gibson Firebird - white ; 1966 Fender Electric XII ; 1989 Fender Start Plus Deluxe - greyburst ; 2006 Godin LGX-SA 3 voice - Cognac burst ; 2003 Brian Moore i1.13 3 voice - greyburst ; 1969 Fender Tele- Blonde ; 1969 Fender Esquire - Blonde ; 1969 Fender Tele Bass - Blonde ; 2005 Gibson Flying V - white ; 199? Jackson Randy Rhodes V - black ; 199? Peavey Wolfgang - cognac burst ; 200? Gretch Duojet 1957 RI - black w/bigsby ; 2005 Gibson SG Special - black ; 1968 Vox Sidewinder Bass- cherry ; 1965 Silvertone amp-in-case 2pickup - red sparkle ; 1989 Takamine EF360S ; 2004 Taylor 314CE ; 2004 Taylor 814CE ; 197? Bruno Royal Artist acoustic

Amps:
1965 Pro Reverb,1966 Vibrolux Reverb, two 1968 Super Reverbs, two 1968 Vibrolux Reverbs,1968 Princeton Reverb, 1968 Deluxe Reverb, 1968 Bandmaster Reverb, two 1969 Bandmaster Reverbs, Vox AC15 2x10, Vox AC15TBX, Marshall DSL 401,Mesa Boogie Mark IV

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by 5965

If you cycle the mids from 0 to 10 while hitting some strings, you'll hear the difference. Actually 6 for treble can be high with some guitars on those amps. Sometimes, around 3 (or even lower, shockingly), can be enough. It just depends on the amp, the pot and personal preferences. At any rate, the underlying point is that the tone controls interact more than some people, including me, might expect. Enjoy the amp!

So true. When I first tried the Duncan Tone Stack Calculator, I was amazed by the effect each control has on each other's range. One would think that by leaving the bass and treble knobs at 0 and cranking the middle, one would get a honky/middy sound. Instead, it gets pretty flat!

- Scott

[Kingtone]

I've got a 66' Super Reverb, I pulled the original CTS speakers (alnico) and replaced them with Jensen P10Qs. After a modest breakin period they sound amazing, smooth and full.....