How to mic a bassman?

EasilyAmused · February 12th, 2006, 03:27 PM

Hey everyone, I'm sure this is covered somewhere, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Anyway, I've got a friend who has a tweed bassman. He's been using it at my church lately, and because of the need to play at the low volumes our church requires, we are going to be sticking it in a back room and micing it up with a SM57. Where should we put the mic on the bassman?

Thanks.

Scott S · February 12th, 2006, 04:14 PM

That's plenty of amp for a church setting. Might I recommend something smaller? A former pastor/guitarist at our church used a SF Champ, and it blended just right. Easier to carry, too. :)

Tim Armstrong · February 12th, 2006, 04:57 PM

In the meantime, try sticking something like a Shure SM57 on right up against the grill cloth, at about a 45 degree angle, over one of the speakers, about halfway between the middle and the edge.

Or, you could try turning the volume knob down on the amp! I've actually played loud amps quietly before, it works!

Heresy, I know...

Cheers, Tim

David Barnett · February 12th, 2006, 06:06 PM

For a smoother sound, point the microphone toward the edge of a speaker. For a brighter sound, point it at the center of the cone. It's okay to go in close, even with the microphone touching the grille cloth.

Or he could just turn down...

EasilyAmused · February 12th, 2006, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the quick feedback guys. This forum is really great.

I should defend my friend a bit though...

He's not playing it at ridiculus volumes - he's actually very conservative in how he normally sets up amps - it's more than in our older church the acoustics of the room/ the area where musicians are set-up is just problematic.

I used to play with a little pro-junior and that little guy would be too loud at 2 on the volume knob. I refused to believe it for the longest time, until I got a friend to play it at that volume while I was in the back of the church. It really was quite loud! Much louder in the back of the church than it was near the amp. I don't know anything about room acoustics to know how that is possible, but that seems to be the case. In the end, we found that putting it in the back, where you could turn it up a bit, and putting a mic on it sounded A LOT better, and the way our PA was, it gave much more even coverage at a more congregationally pleasing volume. Plus, our soundman absolutely loves it because it gives him a lot more control.

The question was more a question of how to mic a 4x10" cab, since I've only generally had experience with micing 1x10" and 1x12" amps... I've played bigger rigs, but I wasn't the sound guy, nor worried about how to mic the cab, so I never paid attention to mic technique...

Thanks again for the quick replies!

Tim Armstrong · February 12th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Sorry for the rant!

I have experienced rooms like that, and doing the remote thing makes sense!

Cheers, Tim

David Barnett · February 12th, 2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

The question was more a question of how to mic a 4x10" cab, since I've only generally had experience with micing 1x10" and 1x12" amps... I've played bigger rigs, but I wasn't the sound guy, nor worried about how to mic the cab, so I never paid attention to mic technique...

To mic up a 4x10 cabinet, choose a speaker, any speaker, and put a microphone in front of it. Flip a coin. (If you want, you could experiment with micing the cabinet from the rear, sometimes that works too if you're looking for a warmer balance. Tab Benoit used to insist that I mic his Music Man amp from the rear.)

Aen · February 13th, 2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

I used to play with a little pro-junior and that little guy would be too loud at 2 on the volume knob. I refused to believe it for the longest time, until I got a friend to play it at that volume while I was in the back of the church. It really was quite loud! Much louder in the back of the church than it was near the amp. I don't know anything about room acoustics to know how that is possible, but that seems to be the case.

Gah! I know what you mean! The floor between my basement/main level is clearly some type of permanent cordless amplifier experiment. I can't play through anything down there without the volume quadrupling through the rest of the house.

Daddy Elmis · February 13th, 2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

Tab Benoit used to insist that I mic his Music Man amp from the rear.

Marky D. · February 14th, 2006, 02:54 PM

I was going to suggest one of these.. I use one in church and it worked perfectly.

But he already has the Bassman. How about turning it toward him so he can use it as a monitor? Then mike any one of the speakers a little off-axis and everyone should be happy.

This is unless he wants to to turn it up and get some natural grit from the amp. With a Bassman, this may be too loud even with the amp in the next room!

EasilyAmused · February 14th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Thanks for the advice with the pro-junior, but we've tried that setup with myself - and even that was problematic.

As I said, I've used a pro junior, and I've faced it towards myself, but even that's been problematic. The area the band is set up (and there isn't a lot of room to begin with) is right infront of a hard wooden wall that the organ pipes live in, So you have this nice hard sound board to reflect the sound back at people, and there's a hard wooden floor, and with a very low wood ceiling... It's kind of like being in the horn of a giant wooden trumpet - any sound made in that area only gets louder as it heads towards the congregation - significantly so. I think it was designed so that a minister or speaker could talk comfortably and fill the entire church with ease long before speaker systems were used. Great for speakers - not so great for electric instruments.

Because the mains are outside of this little "cave", sound from them doesn't build up like it does on our platform and it results in much better distribution. So, as I said, amps need to be placed elsewhere and mic'd... really, anything that can be done to move stage volume to a complete minimum is ideal. We aren't even using monitors these days, as we've switched to in ears. Putting amps in a backroom and micing them has worked well for a number of years now with various amps. We aren't trying to use a bassman to it's full potential, cranking it up for tube distortion - that would be overkill. We are just trying to get it out of our giant wooden trumpet.

February 12th, 2006, 03:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
EasilyAmused Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London Age: 25 Posts: 251	How to mic a bassman? Hey everyone, I'm sure this is covered somewhere, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Anyway, I've got a friend who has a tweed bassman. He's been using it at my church lately, and because of the need to play at the low volumes our church requires, we are going to be sticking it in a back room and micing it up with a SM57. Where should we put the mic on the bassman? Thanks. __________________ Check out my bands' sites: Soul/Blues and Brit Pop and Rock

February 12th, 2006, 04:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 10,255	In the meantime, try sticking something like a Shure SM57 on right up against the grill cloth, at about a 45 degree angle, over one of the speakers, about halfway between the middle and the edge. Or, you could try turning the volume knob down on the amp! I've actually played loud amps quietly before, it works! Heresy, I know... Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

February 12th, 2006, 07:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
EasilyAmused Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London Age: 25 Posts: 251	Thanks for the quick feedback guys. This forum is really great. I should defend my friend a bit though... He's not playing it at ridiculus volumes - he's actually very conservative in how he normally sets up amps - it's more than in our older church the acoustics of the room/ the area where musicians are set-up is just problematic. I used to play with a little pro-junior and that little guy would be too loud at 2 on the volume knob. I refused to believe it for the longest time, until I got a friend to play it at that volume while I was in the back of the church. It really was quite loud! Much louder in the back of the church than it was near the amp. I don't know anything about room acoustics to know how that is possible, but that seems to be the case. In the end, we found that putting it in the back, where you could turn it up a bit, and putting a mic on it sounded A LOT better, and the way our PA was, it gave much more even coverage at a more congregationally pleasing volume. Plus, our soundman absolutely loves it because it gives him a lot more control. The question was more a question of how to mic a 4x10" cab, since I've only generally had experience with micing 1x10" and 1x12" amps... I've played bigger rigs, but I wasn't the sound guy, nor worried about how to mic the cab, so I never paid attention to mic technique... Thanks again for the quick replies! __________________ Check out my bands' sites: Soul/Blues and Brit Pop and Rock

February 12th, 2006, 07:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tim Armstrong Moderator Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Berlin, Maryland, USA Age: 49 Posts: 10,255	Sorry for the rant! I have experienced rooms like that, and doing the remote thing makes sense! Cheers, Tim __________________ http://www.moodswingers.org

February 14th, 2006, 02:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Marky D. Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Age: 47 Posts: 314	Pro Jr. I was going to suggest one of these.. I use one in church and it worked perfectly. But he already has the Bassman. How about turning it toward him so he can use it as a monitor? Then mike any one of the speakers a little off-axis and everyone should be happy. This is unless he wants to to turn it up and get some natural grit from the amp. With a Bassman, this may be too loud even with the amp in the next room!

February 12th, 2006, 04:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,912	That's plenty of amp for a church setting. Might I recommend something smaller? A former pastor/guitarist at our church used a SF Champ, and it blended just right. Easier to carry, too. :)

February 12th, 2006, 06:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	For a smoother sound, point the microphone toward the edge of a speaker. For a brighter sound, point it at the center of the cone. It's okay to go in close, even with the microphone touching the grille cloth. Or he could just turn down...

February 14th, 2006, 04:34 PM	#11 (permalink)
EasilyAmused Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: London Age: 25 Posts: 251	Thanks for the advice with the pro-junior, but we've tried that setup with myself - and even that was problematic. As I said, I've used a pro junior, and I've faced it towards myself, but even that's been problematic. The area the band is set up (and there isn't a lot of room to begin with) is right infront of a hard wooden wall that the organ pipes live in, So you have this nice hard sound board to reflect the sound back at people, and there's a hard wooden floor, and with a very low wood ceiling... It's kind of like being in the horn of a giant wooden trumpet - any sound made in that area only gets louder as it heads towards the congregation - significantly so. I think it was designed so that a minister or speaker could talk comfortably and fill the entire church with ease long before speaker systems were used. Great for speakers - not so great for electric instruments. Because the mains are outside of this little "cave", sound from them doesn't build up like it does on our platform and it results in much better distribution. So, as I said, amps need to be placed elsewhere and mic'd... really, anything that can be done to move stage volume to a complete minimum is ideal. We aren't even using monitors these days, as we've switched to in ears. Putting amps in a backroom and micing them has worked well for a number of years now with various amps. We aren't trying to use a bassman to it's full potential, cranking it up for tube distortion - that would be overkill. We are just trying to get it out of our giant wooden trumpet. __________________ Check out my bands' sites: Soul/Blues and Brit Pop and Rock