I'm thinking my Twin is too much amp for me now.

[Scotland]

I love the sound from my Twin and would never part with it but my idea of sound lately has changed somewhat and I'm now firmly in the camp of "just on the point of break-up".
Obviously I can't get this with the Twin without deafening everyone within a 10 mile radius. I need an amp that can still be almost clean at fairly high volumes but with that edge to it...any ideas what I should try ?
I'm currently thinking on the lines of an AC30 or even a Bassman Ltd. re-issue.

[Hucklebilly]

I went to an Allen Old Flame for just that reason. It has great 6l6 clean tones, but with the MV I can add just a hint of hair. (And if I really want dirty I plug in some 6v6s).

[lex765]

try a deluxe reverb, all you need. the 65 DRRI's are great for what your looking for.

[PeterUK]

John

I too love the Twin but I like you cannot justify the balls-out output / volume levels of such an amp, so by mid-January I should have my DRRI chassis back from Baltimore where amp tech Mikey MicGuirk has replaced the PCBs and cheap nasty components with a PTP-wired board, upgraded iron and a few other tweaks to give me a whole range of tones. I'll report back when I've got it and let you know how it sounds.

FYI, I requested a Twin-like clean tone at sensible volumes with a hint of tube saturation when pushed hard, a hotrod channel for those Tweed-like tones and a pentode / triode switch to give a half-power option for home use and small venues. Mike recommends a quality A/B/Y pedal to give even more channels but combining the Normal and Vibrato channels at full and half power.

Let me know if your interested and I'll e-mail you some photos of the build.

2006 looks as though it's going to be quite toneful.

Here's the amp before the rebuild along side my Kirchencaster. This is one combo I'm really looking to hear in 2006. 8)



:D Peter

[Tim Armstrong]

I'm thinking Vibroluxe Reverb. Slightly less than half the power of a Twin, two tens instead of twelves. More headroom (clean volume) than a Deluxe Reverb, but not so loud as a Twin. Beloved amp of Mike Rice!

Cheers, Tim

[jumpnblues]

...David can make you exactly what you're looking for in a blackface style amp. I would recommend either an Old Flame or Encore. The O.F. has reverb and the Encore has reverb and tremolo. Either can be had in 40 watt models and the Encore comes standard as a 35 watt amp. The Allens are all PTP wired, hand made, and use the highest quality components. Outstanding amps and David's a great guy. It's a no brainer. 8)

Tom

[tdu]

Originally Posted by Scotland

I love the sound from my Twin and would never part with it but my idea of sound lately has changed somewhat and I'm now firmly in the camp of "just on the point of break-up".
Obviously I can't get this with the Twin without deafening everyone within a 10 mile radius. I need an amp that can still be almost clean at fairly high volumes but with that edge to it...any ideas what I should try ?
I'm currently thinking on the lines of an AC30 or even a Bassman Ltd. re-issue.

I am not an amp expert, but aren't the 2 amps you are considering as loud or louder than that twin? I played live through a borrowed old Vox AC30 and was shocked at how loud it was. My buddy plays harmonica through a Bassman and same deal, I find it to be massively loud. He's had it cranked and it's nowhere near close to breaking up.

If you are looking for a 'to the point of breakup' amp, wouldn't you want something a little smaller?

[Hucklebilly]

The reason I went with the Old Flame was because I had been playing a friend's '64 Deluxe and it didn't have enough clean headroom for me. If you really want clean tone with just a hint of grit, you might not be happy with a Deluxe. Of course you can tweak 'em out with different speakers, powertubes, and OTs to get the tone you're looking for.

[Silverface]

I agree with the Deluxe RReverbb. If it breaks up too much, change the power tubes to 6L6's and rebias - it'll be tighter and cleaner. Won't change the power or volume, but it will raise the headroom.

Twins are too much amp for almost everyone. Unless you play Pedal Steel or outdoor concerts, they're just overkill.

[Rob DiStefano]

My Rosco gives me the best of both worlds: 6V6's for a tweedy raunchy breakup at reasonable volumes, and 6L6's for lots more volume and clean headroom. That's the way I designed it and the way Winnie built it for me. At last, my perfect PTP tube amp.

[eggman]

Scotland,

I like Twins for clean, I plan to acquire a SF Twin sometime in 2006. Of course it'll used only at low volume! Always wanted a Twin .
When I want to Get my Ya-Ya's Out at low volume, I always turn to my trusty SF Vibro Champ. Champs are great with Fender guitars, IMHO. I've also got a BF Princeton, which is a cleaner brother of the Princeton Reverb. Even my Princeton'll overdrive nicely with Gibsons. Of course these amps are 6 watts and 12 watts, repectively.
For some strange reason, Deluxes have never turned me on. I'm a huge fan of Keef, but ..I dunno, maybe it's the lack of clean headroom in both SF Deluxes I've had. They just didn't do it for me. Champs, now THEY are fun! To each his own. Good luck, podnuh!

Eggman

[tomtheguitarguy]

How about a nice 6V6 amp w/ very interactive tone controls? Need low volume, but a little "hair"? Pick responsive clean & dirty?

Then the Z-28 fills the bill! EF-86 front end and a very interactive tone stack - the more you turn the treble or bass past 12'oclock, the more hair you can get with it, even at lower volumes. Into the Doc's 2x10's or a 2x12 cab, this thing sounds HUGE!

Hope this helps, and best of luck in your tone quest!

tomtheguitarguy

[JamonHamon]

Originally Posted by Scotland

I love the sound from my Twin and would never part with it but my idea of sound lately has changed somewhat and I'm now firmly in the camp of "just on the point of break-up".
Obviously I can't get this with the Twin without deafening everyone within a 10 mile radius. I need an amp that can still be almost clean at fairly high volumes but with that edge to it...any ideas what I should try ?
I'm currently thinking on the lines of an AC30 or even a Bassman Ltd. re-issue.

Its not ptp but I have country jazz tubes from euro tubes The amp is loud enough for small to medium gigs without being miked has great vox chime with country twin bite at lower volume, Dale Hamon ------Jamon Hamon

[Robin Nahum]

Originally Posted by Scotland

....I need an amp that can still be almost clean at fairly high volumes but with that edge to it...any ideas what I should try ?

How about a Pro Reverb - a blackface, or a silverface with the 40W circuit? That way you stay with the 2 x12 config. They are still comparatively cheap.

If you want more options to manage the loudness, you could look at:

(a) a mid-period SF with the MV (but still with the tube rectifier), or
(b) lower efficiency speakers.

I'm a bit of an efficiency junkie myself but am starting to recognise that lower efficiency speakers have their place.

[TY]

A good AC30 is almost as loud as a twin when both are cranked, but the AC30 has WAY less headroom than a twin. At the volume that the twin is just starting to clip, the AC30 will be transitioning into smooth ovedrive. It behaves very differently than a twin.

If you want the tone of a twin at "just breaking up" level, but quiter, I don't think an AC30 is what you are looking for. It is a completely different beast.

Also, the CVR doesn't have much headroom either, it breaks up pretty early and quite aggresively. It'll have about the same headroom as deluxe, but will get significantly louder and dirtier/edgier/more aggressive when cranked.

A BF/SF deluxe with an efficient speaker might make you happy, or you could try a pro reverb for a bit more headroom and "umph" with the 2x12s.

[Big Lug]

Slap a speaker in there that will provide higher headroom and a decent set of tubes (JJs at a minimum) and you should be good to go. Unless...

...your band has an obnoxiously loud stage volume.

I've seen so many bands with DRs that it truly is the club amp.

[ye olde fretmonkey]

One of my goals for '06 is to save up enough scratch to get some sort of Fender inbetween a Champ and a Twin. Love my Champ, but it's not big enough to play anywhere or to even get over a drumset. Love my Twin, but it really is too much for a lot of places (but perfect for others). My Classic 30 just isn't cuttin' it for me anymore as an inbetween-size amp.

Deluxes are just too expensive now (except for a DRRI), so I'm leaning more towards a Vibroverb or even a Rivera-period Fender like a 60 or a Concert.

[Tele62]

Many an old Twin player now yanks thru a Maz-38-Sr.
A Z-28 is KILLER too..
you can't miss with a Z amp IMO

[JTM45blues]

yeah, I would go for an Allen too if I were in your shoes. I've heard jumpnblues Allen enough to know that they are fantastic sounding amps. His reminds me of a very fat sounding BF Super Reverb.

The AC30 (though I love them) is not going to be what you're looking for. They are really, really loud amps, and I've heard a healthy one go toe to toe with a Twin and a 100 watt Marshall, and beat the tar out of both for volume.

[sequencepro]

I've been having lots of fun with one of these lately. And:

1) It's only 40 watts of all tube power,

2) It's got 3 foot switchable Channels (Clean , Drive and, More Drive) with separate volume/gain for clean and dirty, and a Master volume, so you can make it sing nice and brown even at a low volume, (easy to set up for Clean/crunch/solo)

3) It sounds and looks like a fender

$) It's smaller than a twin or bassman, and not as heavy

4) And they're about $400 used, $600 new

5) And it does Good and clean, AND good and dirty loud enough for a big club gig if you put it in the P.A. (sounds REALLY big and full mic'd from the back of the cab)

Doug Lanier
sequencepro@yahoo.com

[tdu]

I have been seriously considering trading in my Traynor YCV50blue for a YCV20WR. They both have the same tube/speaker setup. The 50 is just way more amp than I need volume wise. And the 20 is about 10 lbs lighter. I'd like to get an amp I can push a little more. Even at gigs the 50 hardly gets pushed.

[gls500]

Whichever way you go, I'd suggest trying your hardest to keep the twin, because you know you'll want another some day, and the prices are only going up!

Good luck.

[d. meyers]

One vote against the DR (SF, anyway). I borrowed my bass player's SFDR last night and couldn't get enough volume to play with our obscenley loud drummer. If you play with a non-deaf percussionist, then maybe. I never thought I'd say it, but my Dula Pro is actually coming in handy. Good god, we are WAY TO LOUD! Anyway, save the twin.

[SinnerBoy61]

Have you thought of getting an attenuator of some sort? I bought a THD hotplate for my Twin, and now I can run it with volume at 7 in a small apt.

just a thought..

SB

[Durango Twango]

Like a lot of guys here, I've owned and gigged with just about every Fender amp made. Truth be told, they all sound pretty much the same, just more or less based on wattage. I have to say that I don't buy into the 20 watt thing that much for a live amp - if you're not mic'ing the amp, the get really thin thirty feet out or so where a Twin will hold its fidelity and girth across a big room. To me, a Twin is the quintessential pro amp and has the track record to prove it. With all the gear avaiable, guys like Redd, Ry Cooder, David Lindley, Jr. Brown and Brett Mason have all been sited with twins on a regular basis and I doubt it's by accident.

On my '69, I had a half power switch wired in (completely reversible) and it grounded out two power tubes. Dropped the thing into Pro an Vibrolux territory with a better tone from those big transformers. Interestingly though, as time went on, I used the switch less and less. Go figure. A buddy of mine has triode/pentode switch on his that drops the output in a similar way. If you drop into the smaller Fender's you really don't gain that much - compared to my old Vibrolux, my Twin was just a little heavier (but not that much - if you think about it it's just the difference of transformers and an inch deeper cab) but gave me a lot more juice if I had a drummer who left his frontal lobes at home. I'd look into either one of these inexpensive mods before dropping a chunk of change into something. Just my $.02!

As a PS (to show I'm FOS), I should point out the use of past tense above - I sold my Twin when I stopped playing out awhile back. Has a lot more to do with three kids than anything else. Scott Lentz is now the proud owner of my beautiful '69 Twin and he lets me have visitation rights. Around the house and the rare sitting in, it's a 45 watt Penn 1x12 with a Fane Blue Alnico. And an SM57. Cheers!