Stock DRRI vs. Blackfaced SFDR vs. Dr. Z

sudmonkey · December 6th, 2005, 03:21 AM

I have been struggling with my next amp purchase. Like everyone here, I am always looking for as close to "perfect" tone as my limited funds will permit. I work hard, as most people do, and as such, add $100.00 per month to kind of an ongoing gear fund. The dilemma has always been when to take the leap and purchase.
I have enough saved currently to pick up a new DRRI, of which a lot of folks here seem to think highly. The ones I've heard sound good to me as well. I play blues, jazz and country mostly through a MIM 50's tele with barden p/u's. I have also been checking out the cosmetically and electronically 'blackfaced,' SF deluxe reverbs by Rick at Vintagesound.net.
To compound things further, I've recently played through the Dr.Z Prescription ES which sounded incredible...but for much more $$, and a longer wait while the money accumulates. I currently have a TRRI which is just more than I need.
Appreciate any of your opinions. My delimma really is, what's the best tone and value for the money, and for long term reliability.
Thanks all!

David Barnett · December 6th, 2005, 03:54 AM

The blackfaced SF would be my choice. If it's in the same price range as the DRRI, you get a real hand-wired amp instead of a printed circuit board.

Texsunburst59 · December 6th, 2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barnett

The blackfaced SF would be my choice. If it's in the same price range as the DRRI, you get a real hand-wired amp instead of a printed circuit board.

I agree with David. I got a beat up 72' Deluxe and had it totally redone in and out to 65' Blackface specs. I got for $425 last year and put about $450 into it. That included the new exterior facelift, redoing the insides,
and the NOS RCA gray plates. Now the amp sounds really awsome.

sudmonkey · December 6th, 2005, 11:00 AM

Thanks for the input. I definately am very interested in the blackfaced deluxe reverb, both cosmetically and electronically. It sounds as if it is well done, you get a next to new amp that would last for years to come. Rick at vintagesound.com dose these revamps using your choice of speakers. I was thinking about a weber. Is there anyone else you guys would recommend doing this kind of refurbishment, or doing these amps from scratch (without me having to find the SFDR)?

paddywhack · December 6th, 2005, 11:00 AM

...if the Deluxe is the tone camp you're in than the Dr Z Z-28 is the amp that comes closest...(I have a 65 Deluxe and recently sold a Z-28)....its quite a bit cheaper and can be had used in near mint condition for about 100.00 or so in a 1-12 combo...cheaper in a head....if you're diggin the el-84 sound of the Prescription, a Maz Jr. (had one of them too) lines up power wise with a Deluxe and is about the same price as a Z-28.....personally i think the Carmen Ghia is the Z to go after for the el-84 thing and the Z-28 gets you closer to Fender territory....ifn you want the Fender camp tone with the Prescription ES muscle than a Rt 66 is worth checkin out...yep...had one of those too....Deluxe Reverb Reissues (had one) are quite decent amps but do not reside in the same league as vintage model Fenders or new Dr Z's....

paddywhack · December 6th, 2005, 11:03 AM

...make that about 1100.00 for that used Z-28 or Maz Jr....

sudmonkey · December 6th, 2005, 12:19 PM

Paddywack-
Sonically speaking, with the Dr.Z's, which configurations have you favored, the combo's with 12" or 10" speakers? I think the Rx ES only comes in a 2-12 version. I haven't tried the Maz 28, but love that burning tone Buddy Whittington gets with John Mayall's band. Dr. Z emailed me and said Buddy used the 2-12 configuration on almost all his stuff.
I love anything that gets that sizzling, near the edge breakup of an amp with tubes playing the blues.
Any further thoughts?

Laroosco!! · December 6th, 2005, 03:56 PM

The Z 10" combos are HUGE sounding.
My Z28 sounded twice as big through the 2x10 combbo speakers than through my 2x12 cab with G12H30's.
I'm playing my current Z28 Head through a 2x12 w/Texas Heats and it is great.

Think Deluxe without the loose low end. Also I'd compare it more to a Tweed/Brown amp than a BF.

paddywhack · December 6th, 2005, 04:40 PM

....hey Sudmonkey....i'm a big fan of 10 inch speakers for my needs....(smaller clubs and halls)...i had a Z-best 2-12 loaded with a G-12H and a Greenback...i used it with the Rt 66 and the Carmen Ghia....my personal feeling is that i had to push it pretty loud (make that too loud) to get the type of breakup i was looking for....i also used a mojotone 4-10 cab loaded with Jensen P-10R's that is a great cab for lower watt Z's.....great shimmery but warm tone with the big bottom...kinda like a vintage Super Reverb...i've used the 2-10 Z loaded combos for the Maz Jr., Z-28 and the Carmen Ghia which is the amp i've settled on.....they're the biggest sounding 2-10s i've heard....a bit on the harsh side.....kinda like a Celestion Vintage 30....but what sounds a bit edgy and harsh up close usually transfers to good cut and presence out in front of the band without the harshness that you hear up close....i'm currently building my own 1-12 cab to use for frequent speaker swaps...i have a Weber ceramic Blue Dog and a Vintage 30 that i've used in past amps that i'm sure will sound great my Z but i also want to use it with my Vibro Champ which gets a lot of my playing time.....Z amps are wonderful and if Buddy W's tone is what you're after (it's the basic tone i'm into)you'll get it with any of the Dr's el-84 based amps with pretty much any good speakers you care to use....providing you play a tele of course....

sudmonkey · December 6th, 2005, 04:56 PM

Thanks for all ya'll's help. I tend to lean toward the 10" speakers as well. I definately feel most at home playing tele, and it sounds like the Z's are great for all styles of tele-speak.
Think I'm going to head down to Guitar Resurection here in Austin today and check out some other Dr. Z gear that I haven't yet heard.
I'll report back!

CancerLeoCam · December 6th, 2005, 08:17 PM

BFaced SFDR but as David said you get a solid amp on a stripboard not a PCB.

jjh37854 · December 6th, 2005, 08:28 PM

If you can afford it I think the Ghia is perfect for what you decribe. I have had many SF fenders and a DRRI, I recently picked up a new Mazerati 2-10 which just KILLS, has all the things I kept trying to coax out of my fenders, chime, more mid, well the mid I wa slooking for anyway. I needed the power of the Mazerati and have found it to be plenty of power. I think the Ghia could be the way to go, find a used head on Ebay. Otherwise between the modded SF deluxe and the DRRI, thats a no brainer, go with the SF.

sudmonkey · December 7th, 2005, 02:56 PM

I went yesterday and played through as follows, the Z-Rx ES, Z-Maz 28, Z-Route 66, plus a small bad cat and bogner combo. To my ears, the greatest appeal are between the Dr. Z's....specifically, the Rx ES, and the Maz 28. I have not heard the ghia so far.
The Rx ES and the Maz 28 just scream. So....I guess I'm going to keep saving my cash with the idea that I may just head the Dr. Z route.
Thanks for everybody's input!

Tim Swartz · December 7th, 2005, 03:30 PM

IMO, keep saving your dough and get the amp you really want... Don't "settle" for something. The real key is that you have a good working amp that will get you through until you reach your goal.... The other good news is that used boutique amps hold their value well. If you shop hard you can buy and sell them without losing $$$.

jjh37854 · December 7th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Do yourself a favor and make sure you try the Ghia.

here is an interesting bit of info on choosing a Z

http://drzamplifiers.proboards41.com...9839104&page=1

johnspierce · December 7th, 2005, 08:02 PM

I don't own a maz 38 yet, but I a/b'd one against a bogner, bad cat, rivera, cornford and silverface vibrolux -- the Dr. Z gets my vote -- awesome sounding amp! The one I played through had 1 12" speaker -- I'm thinking about getting one with 2 12" in it. (oh my back!)

JP

gls500 · December 7th, 2005, 08:44 PM

I'm a huge Dr.Z fan. I own 4 (with the 5th on the way), and I play them for just about everything.

That being said, no Dr.Z I know of will sound like a Deluxe Reverb. They just won't get that glassy sound.

BUT they do sound excellent in their own unique way. I don't know anything that sounds at all like any of the Dr.Z models. What I like about them is that they allow me to make "my own tone".

For country, I've used the Z28, Maz38, and my Ghia. I gig the Z28 and Maz38, depending on my power need for the venue. I typically only record with the Ghia. It's such a perfect recording amp it's not funny (and I'd love to gig it, but I prefer the convenience of the Z28 combo).

Try them all. You may find you just like the tone of the DR more, and there's nothing wrong with that!

December 6th, 2005, 03:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
sudmonkey TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19	Stock DRRI vs. Blackfaced SFDR vs. Dr. Z I have been struggling with my next amp purchase. Like everyone here, I am always looking for as close to "perfect" tone as my limited funds will permit. I work hard, as most people do, and as such, add $100.00 per month to kind of an ongoing gear fund. The dilemma has always been when to take the leap and purchase. I have enough saved currently to pick up a new DRRI, of which a lot of folks here seem to think highly. The ones I've heard sound good to me as well. I play blues, jazz and country mostly through a MIM 50's tele with barden p/u's. I have also been checking out the cosmetically and electronically 'blackfaced,' SF deluxe reverbs by Rick at Vintagesound.net. To compound things further, I've recently played through the Dr.Z Prescription ES which sounded incredible...but for much more $$, and a longer wait while the money accumulates. I currently have a TRRI which is just more than I need. Appreciate any of your opinions. My delimma really is, what's the best tone and value for the money, and for long term reliability. Thanks all! __________________ Peace

December 6th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
sudmonkey TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19	Blackfaced deluxe reverb Thanks for the input. I definately am very interested in the blackfaced deluxe reverb, both cosmetically and electronically. It sounds as if it is well done, you get a next to new amp that would last for years to come. Rick at vintagesound.com dose these revamps using your choice of speakers. I was thinking about a weber. Is there anyone else you guys would recommend doing this kind of refurbishment, or doing these amps from scratch (without me having to find the SFDR)? __________________ Peace

December 6th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
paddywhack TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	100 bucks...i'll take three!!! ...make that about 1100.00 for that used Z-28 or Maz Jr....

December 6th, 2005, 12:19 PM	#7 (permalink)
sudmonkey TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19	Dr. Z amps Paddywack- Sonically speaking, with the Dr.Z's, which configurations have you favored, the combo's with 12" or 10" speakers? I think the Rx ES only comes in a 2-12 version. I haven't tried the Maz 28, but love that burning tone Buddy Whittington gets with John Mayall's band. Dr. Z emailed me and said Buddy used the 2-12 configuration on almost all his stuff. I love anything that gets that sizzling, near the edge breakup of an amp with tubes playing the blues. Any further thoughts? __________________ Peace

December 6th, 2005, 04:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
sudmonkey TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19	Thanks for all ya'll's help. I tend to lean toward the 10" speakers as well. I definately feel most at home playing tele, and it sounds like the Z's are great for all styles of tele-speak. Think I'm going to head down to Guitar Resurection here in Austin today and check out some other Dr. Z gear that I haven't yet heard. I'll report back! __________________ Peace

December 6th, 2005, 03:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
David Barnett Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: LIttle Rock, AR Age: 52 Posts: 5,491	The blackfaced SF would be my choice. If it's in the same price range as the DRRI, you get a real hand-wired amp instead of a printed circuit board.

December 6th, 2005, 11:00 AM	#5 (permalink)
paddywhack TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	...if the Deluxe is the tone camp you're in than the Dr Z Z-28 is the amp that comes closest...(I have a 65 Deluxe and recently sold a Z-28)....its quite a bit cheaper and can be had used in near mint condition for about 100.00 or so in a 1-12 combo...cheaper in a head....if you're diggin the el-84 sound of the Prescription, a Maz Jr. (had one of them too) lines up power wise with a Deluxe and is about the same price as a Z-28.....personally i think the Carmen Ghia is the Z to go after for the el-84 thing and the Z-28 gets you closer to Fender territory....ifn you want the Fender camp tone with the Prescription ES muscle than a Rt 66 is worth checkin out...yep...had one of those too....Deluxe Reverb Reissues (had one) are quite decent amps but do not reside in the same league as vintage model Fenders or new Dr Z's....

December 6th, 2005, 03:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Laroosco!! TDPRI Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 30	The Z 10" combos are HUGE sounding. My Z28 sounded twice as big through the 2x10 combbo speakers than through my 2x12 cab with G12H30's. I'm playing my current Z28 Head through a 2x12 w/Texas Heats and it is great. Think Deluxe without the loose low end. Also I'd compare it more to a Tweed/Brown amp than a BF.

December 6th, 2005, 04:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
paddywhack TDPRI Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 61	....hey Sudmonkey....i'm a big fan of 10 inch speakers for my needs....(smaller clubs and halls)...i had a Z-best 2-12 loaded with a G-12H and a Greenback...i used it with the Rt 66 and the Carmen Ghia....my personal feeling is that i had to push it pretty loud (make that too loud) to get the type of breakup i was looking for....i also used a mojotone 4-10 cab loaded with Jensen P-10R's that is a great cab for lower watt Z's.....great shimmery but warm tone with the big bottom...kinda like a vintage Super Reverb...i've used the 2-10 Z loaded combos for the Maz Jr., Z-28 and the Carmen Ghia which is the amp i've settled on.....they're the biggest sounding 2-10s i've heard....a bit on the harsh side.....kinda like a Celestion Vintage 30....but what sounds a bit edgy and harsh up close usually transfers to good cut and presence out in front of the band without the harshness that you hear up close....i'm currently building my own 1-12 cab to use for frequent speaker swaps...i have a Weber ceramic Blue Dog and a Vintage 30 that i've used in past amps that i'm sure will sound great my Z but i also want to use it with my Vibro Champ which gets a lot of my playing time.....Z amps are wonderful and if Buddy W's tone is what you're after (it's the basic tone i'm into)you'll get it with any of the Dr's el-84 based amps with pretty much any good speakers you care to use....providing you play a tele of course....

December 6th, 2005, 08:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
CancerLeoCam Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mule Deer-Mt. Lion Safari, CA Posts: 1,692 5 Photos	Get the.... BFaced SFDR but as David said you get a solid amp on a stripboard not a PCB. __________________ Everyone's your "buddy" or "friend" when they want you or something from you. If you're not willing to work for free why should somebody else?

December 6th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
jjh37854 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 35 Posts: 1,187 7 Photos	If you can afford it I think the Ghia is perfect for what you decribe. I have had many SF fenders and a DRRI, I recently picked up a new Mazerati 2-10 which just KILLS, has all the things I kept trying to coax out of my fenders, chime, more mid, well the mid I wa slooking for anyway. I needed the power of the Mazerati and have found it to be plenty of power. I think the Ghia could be the way to go, find a used head on Ebay. Otherwise between the modded SF deluxe and the DRRI, thats a no brainer, go with the SF.

December 7th, 2005, 02:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
sudmonkey TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 19	Played the Maz 28..... I went yesterday and played through as follows, the Z-Rx ES, Z-Maz 28, Z-Route 66, plus a small bad cat and bogner combo. To my ears, the greatest appeal are between the Dr. Z's....specifically, the Rx ES, and the Maz 28. I have not heard the ghia so far. The Rx ES and the Maz 28 just scream. So....I guess I'm going to keep saving my cash with the idea that I may just head the Dr. Z route. Thanks for everybody's input! __________________ Peace

December 7th, 2005, 03:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	IMO, keep saving your dough and get the amp you really want... Don't "settle" for something. The real key is that you have a good working amp that will get you through until you reach your goal.... The other good news is that used boutique amps hold their value well. If you shop hard you can buy and sell them without losing $$$. __________________

December 7th, 2005, 07:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
jjh37854 Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 35 Posts: 1,187 7 Photos	Do yourself a favor and make sure you try the Ghia. here is an interesting bit of info on choosing a Z http://drzamplifiers.proboards41.com...9839104&page=1

December 7th, 2005, 08:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
johnspierce Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 471 17 Photos	I don't own a maz 38 yet, but I a/b'd one against a bogner, bad cat, rivera, cornford and silverface vibrolux -- the Dr. Z gets my vote -- awesome sounding amp! The one I played through had 1 12" speaker -- I'm thinking about getting one with 2 12" in it. (oh my back!) JP

December 7th, 2005, 08:44 PM	#17 (permalink)
gls500 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 894	I'm a huge Dr.Z fan. I own 4 (with the 5th on the way), and I play them for just about everything. That being said, no Dr.Z I know of will sound like a Deluxe Reverb. They just won't get that glassy sound. BUT they do sound excellent in their own unique way. I don't know anything that sounds at all like any of the Dr.Z models. What I like about them is that they allow me to make "my own tone". For country, I've used the Z28, Maz38, and my Ghia. I gig the Z28 and Maz38, depending on my power need for the venue. I typically only record with the Ghia. It's such a perfect recording amp it's not funny (and I'd love to gig it, but I prefer the convenience of the Z28 combo). Try them all. You may find you just like the tone of the DR more, and there's nothing wrong with that!