more classic 30 woes (fixed!)

[captain gorgeous]

okay i'm very fond of this thing, but it seems to be on a mission to "make amends" for 4 years of trouble free service lately.

firstly it blows a cap shortly after being turned on, at the hands of a support band. £45 repair.

then the recently replaced valves (£65 worth) go badly microphonic after only a few weeks of use. received wisdom on here tells me that it's probably the groove tubes 12AX7s rather than the electro harmonix EL84s that are to blame so in a budget conscious moment i decide to just replace the preamps valves with JJ ECC83s. the metalic jingly rattling remains. hmmm. then after being used by yet another heavy handed support band last week is starts making random and very loud POP!s and BANG!s throughout our set.

i get it home and try it at very low volume and it seems okay until i play a "b" on the low e string which seems to jangle all the frequencies that something in there doesn't like; it starts making the familiar metalic/glassy rattling sound which then doesn't stop after i've muted the note. after a few seconds of this the pops and bangs are back (at a volume waaaaay higher than the amp is set at)

any ideas? could it be the power amp valves. but i guess it could be thos ECC83s. i'll check them all tonight.

are the symptoms described typical of valve microphony or could it be something more serious?

thanks in advance (and sorry for yet another lenghty Cl30 post)

[Salty]

I've had two or three of these things over the years, and they sound good for what they are, in that price range.

The bad: EVERY C30 I've encountered has the rattle you describe. It's not a problem with your tubes, it's the amp design. I can almost promise you, that if you change the tubes, the rattle will re-appear within a couple of hours to a week. What causes it is the sound pressure coming off the rear of the speaker, and with the amp design, the tubes just get pummeled by it. It's filament rattle. The tubes just can't take the abuse. Maybe a REALLY stout tube (like JJ's) will take a little more. I suspect the Fender Blues Jr. would suffer the same issues, but it's not as powerful as the C30.

Not much you can do about it, cause the tubes/speaker alignment are what they are. The End. However, Peavey IS introducing the C30 Head, which would get the chassis away from the speaker. If you insist on the C30, that would be an option.

Yes, I realize that thousand of amps have the tubes hanging behind the speaker, but remember, this is budget construction at it's peak. And there's just something about the way it's all aligned, that sets up this occurence.

I learned that it's better, and in the long run saves money, to just bite the bullet. Spend some more on a higher-quality amp, and be done with it. By the time you go through 6 or 7(or more) budget amps, trying to compromise sound and reliability issues, you could have bought one(or two) REALLY nice amps.

Get the amp you always wanted. For me that was a VOX AC30(BRITISH), and I've never regretted it. Cost me a lot, but a lot less than I've spent on crap over the years. Remember, a typical boutique amp is still cheaper than 4 Peavey C30's.

[captain gorgeous]

i'm actually a bit po'd at that assesment to be honest? so that rattle is just going to re-occur whatever's in there then? hmmmm. what about the bangs and pops? might that be due to long term pummeling from the speaker?

in terms of upgrading, i've been thinking the same for a while now. i've done it with my guitars to an extent, and have been making tentative forays into the classic market recently buying my first silverface amps. i've always had a hankering for an AC30 too as it happens. maybe next year.

but for now i just need to get this workhorse up and running again. got gigs this week!

thanks for your valuable advice,

a.

[Nub]

A TubeTamer will help with the tube rattle, you can get them on ebay (Item number: 7372552181).

I agree with Salty, though, and my experience has been much the same. I had a Classic 30, and did the usual stuff to it- JJ's tubes, Weber speaker, tube tamer & guard, matching extension cabinet, and a MiniMass... still wasn't satisfied with the sound.

One day, I played through an Orange Rocker 30, and immediately realized I was chasing my tail with the C30. I traded in my C30, and some cash, for the Orange, and have never been happier. I think I would've saved myself a bunch of frustration- and been time, effort, and money ahead- if I had bought a better quality amp in the first place. YMMV...

[GlennLewis]

I can't remember whose sage advice it was, but it is a keeper from another thread. And I appologize if you already know this or have tried it. And I thank whoever posted it in the first place.

Turn amp up to about half volume with nothing plugged into the input jack.

Around back, gently tap on the side of each tube in turn with a guitar pick. You will know immediately which tube has gone microphonic... and then you replace that tube and you are good to go.

After 4 years with your C30, you already know how it is supposed to sound and the service it can give .... so no worries, you just have to identify which tube has let you down.

Good luck!

[e-merlin]

You are experiencing the dreaded tube rattle. EL84s are not the most robust tube on the planet. Having them right in the backblast of the speaker without some form of clamping device only exacerbates the problem, and seems to be Peavey's only design flaw with this amp. Tube rattle can appear even in recently installed tubes. The tube tamer is a good idea. Also I know of some guys on the Peavey Amp Forum that use EL84M (military spec) tubes with good results.

[captain gorgeous]

thanks a lot guys.

i actually tried the tap test on all the tubes the day before it started the popping and banging... they all made some kind kind of rattle but the power tubes were the noisiest.

going to reinstall an old set of european nos tubes that i'd previously switched out for spares tonight.

thanks again guys.

[captain gorgeous]

FWIW - i've decided to start looking for a new amp.

coming soon to a board near you the

"help! i'm crippled by the choice thread"

[bagpipe]

Originally Posted by captain gorgeous

FWIW - i've decided to start looking for a new amp.

coming soon to a board near you the

"help! i'm crippled by the choice thread"

I'd get a Peavey Classic 30 - they're great! :D

[captain gorgeous]

+1 on that

i changed out the speaker for a weber and put jj tubes in mine and it sounds great.

[Wild Rice Chris]

Originally Posted by captain gorgeous

+1 on that

i changed out the speaker for a weber and put jj tubes in mine and it sounds great.

CORRECTION:

It soundED great.

Sorry about your woes. I had tube rattle trouble with the Delta Blues (same as the Classic 30 with a 15" and tremolo).

[captain gorgeous]

aha! wrong again mister wild rice! moohahaha!

tried a whole buncha tubes and ended up putting some well used but not abused harma nos european tubes in there. okay so there's still some rattle on a couple of notes (that b on the low string really seems to bother it for some reason) but the scary popping is gone. hooray! :D

won't be buying electro harmonix toobes again that's for sure. they didn't last 6 months (and were quite brittle and trebly sounding to my ears)

[ye olde fretmonkey]

JJ tubes solved the microphonic ringing problem on mine.

I also have had the popping/banging noises, due to bad internal ground. If it starts doing that again, rap your knuckles on the back of the chassis itself with it turned on and see if there's any one spot where you can make it pop.

My C30 is seeing less service these days, mainly for gigs where a Twin Reverb is overkill. It's just been knocked around too much at gigs and on the road. When I can pull together the scratch I wanna get a s/s Peavey (like a Nashville 400 or Session, something like that) for a loud/clean alternative to the Twin and an intermediate-size Fender tube amp (Vibroverb? 65 Deluxe reissue?) as a replacement for the C30. Of course, that will also involve some real $$...

[Wild Rice Chris]

Originally Posted by captain gorgeous

aha! wrong again mister wild rice! moohahaha!

Again? Dang, I must have missed the other times. 8)

Good thing you fixed it, now go play it!

[captain gorgeous]

Originally Posted by Wild Rice Chris

Again? Dang, I must have missed the other times. 8)

Good thing you fixed it, now go play it!

fair point.

done and done.

ta!