Tube vs Solid State

Farfel · November 11th, 2005, 01:50 PM

What's the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp, concerning clean and distortion?

trag-o-caster · November 11th, 2005, 02:20 PM

I think that the search function could answer this question much more accurately than the minor war that's going to break out somewhere in the middle of , what will become, this thread.

Edited to add:

I own several of both kinds, and there has never been one occasion where I've used one of my solid state amps onstage and thought "Darnnit - I wish that I would've brought a tube amp". If they didn't have "That Sound" to begin with, they wouldn't be here in the collection.

gls500 · November 11th, 2005, 02:23 PM

And on top of that, just spend some time at your local guitar store and play and listen (listen to your playing, not the opinion of the guitar store guys ;).

Really, everyone has a different take on it. Develop your own.

J-man · November 11th, 2005, 03:01 PM

First off: tone wise the difference is in each model of amp, not whether it's tube or SS.

The main differences clean/distortion wise is that when you push the volume on an SS amp it will break up and distort, but it will sound like the amp is broken, and not ear pleasing at all. A tube amp when pushed will cause the valves to work harder and will create natural distortion, BUT this distortion will sound just like a small amount of gain added (which is exactly what it is), this is why many people prefer tube amps. In fact most tube amps sound best when the volume is getting into what would be the danger zone on an SS amp.

tdu · November 11th, 2005, 03:39 PM

They should combone all these threads and just make it one sticky thread at the top of the forum. Anytime anyone wants more inout they can just add to that thread.

boogaloo · November 11th, 2005, 03:41 PM

and then watch as the flames grow higher...

IMO tube amps have a distinct edge over SS amps, both in the clean and overdriven departments. Exception might be in extreme distortion situations (I really don't know- I don't play or regularly listen to that kind of music...)

I've recently heard some pretty darn good SS amps. But having said that, they are usually "emulating" a driven tube amp, or a certain make/model of a tube amp. The one that immediately comes to mind is Tech 21. I have a Trademark 10 and it has some sweet tones and harmonics pretty close to the tube amps I have. Yet, theres something a little lacking. The notes don't quite "decay" the way they do on my tube amps. The harmonics that I hear so clearly on my tube amps are not quite as prevalent on my SS amp. Theres also a warmth and throaty-ness present in my tube amps that is not nearly there in my SS amp.

Of course there are differences among the myriad of SS amps available too! I A/B'd a Roland Cube 30 amp using COSM and compared it to my Tech 21- between the two the Tech 21 won IMO- more natural note decay, more natural sounding harmonics, although of course the Cube had more oompf.

Bottom line for me- I've yet to find a SS amp that delivers my tone like a tube amp can, clean or dirty. I think many guitarists feel the same way- just look at the shear numbers of SS amplifier manufacturers touting their amps as "breaking up like _____" "sustaining like a _______ amp" "emulating_________amp" and note that the amps they are mimicking are almost exculsively tube amps. The only SS amp I've ever seen emulated is the Roland Jazz/Chorus Amp.

Brian

Sidney Vicious · November 11th, 2005, 04:00 PM

I never thought I'd have to say these words, but
could you slow that turkey down?

Chris S. · November 11th, 2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farfel

What's the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp, concerning clean and distortion?

Simple: tube amps tend to sound good when you overdrive them. ;-) CS

Farfel · November 12th, 2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

I never thought I'd have to say these words, but
could you slow that turkey down?

Wha . . .?

Sidney Vicious · November 12th, 2005, 04:04 PM

Well what the heck is that Indian wailing on the Pilgrim with if it? If it ain't a turkey I give up!

PostoronnimV · November 12th, 2005, 05:23 PM

I am still wondering why Les Paul plays his trademark 60 weekly?

Bill · November 12th, 2005, 05:38 PM

Man, all this time I thought he was doffing his cowboy hat and hittin' the guy with it.

ducatiman · November 12th, 2005, 09:54 PM

i gotta say, some solid state amps have caught up real close in the tone department. they are also just plain practical.

i own both a blackface bassman and a tech 21 tm60 (modded with avatar "hellatone " speaker,
its a a celestion vintage 30 pre broken in and relabeled by avatar). the tech 21 is the "grab and go". no worries about bringing spare fuses, tubes (or a back up amp) to a gig. my BF bassman is 40 some years old, and as such, i use it only for more special gigs. BOTH sound great, accept pedals very well, plenty of headroom,
but the BF is vintage, the tech 21 can be easily replaced, not so easy for the bassman. i'd hate to see it dropped, a beer spilled into it , or have it stolen at a gig. as a result, the tm60 gets the nod a lot and gives great service, light weight, and damn, its a fun , great sounding amp in its own right .

as for les paul using a tm60, he's not overdriving at all, and the tm60 does a great "dark" jazz tone. it suits his needs.

oh boy, here come the flames.......

ducatiman

guitargonaut · November 13th, 2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

Well what the heck is that Indian wailing on the Pilgrim with if it? If it ain't a turkey I give up!

Not to jack this thread, but I thought it was a big brown fish...

Joe-Bob · November 13th, 2005, 01:54 PM

There's nothing at all wrong with either type of amp...except for the fact that there are so many bad amps being made right now...of both types. Do your research, think about your style, and what type of music you'll be playing most, will you be gigging? doing covers? just country? Do you most need clean headroom, or versatility?...etc. You need to clearly define your needs, and then find the amp that fits them perfectly. Don't try to be a cheapskate, but you don't have to spend $3000 either. Choose wisely, and have fun.

Farfel · November 13th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney Vicious

Well what the heck is that Indian wailing on the Pilgrim with if it? If it ain't a turkey I give up!

Oh, that's what you were talking about. Yeah, it's a turkey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

just country?

No! none of that.

Chicago Slim · November 14th, 2005, 08:34 AM

Solid State amps have improved a lot. I've owned everything from an early 50's Fender Deluxe to a modern Mesa/Boogie. I always carried a backup tube amp, for when tubes go bad. They are easy to fix, but you don't have the time to do it, when your on stage.

I've resently switched to SS amps because I can get high distortion at a lower stage volume, and use a line out to a PA. In the past this wasn't an option. Tube amps still do a mild breakup better for blues, but I can get paid four times as much to play other music.

bluescube · November 14th, 2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-man

First off: tone wise the difference is in each model of amp, not whether it's tube or SS.

The main differences clean/distortion wise is that when you push the volume on an SS amp it will break up and distort, but it will sound like the amp is broken, and not ear pleasing at all. A tube amp when pushed will cause the valves to work harder and will create natural distortion, BUT this distortion will sound just like a small amount of gain added (which is exactly what it is), this is why many people prefer tube amps. In fact most tube amps sound best when the volume is getting into what would be the danger zone on an SS amp.

Not with a Roland BluesCube. Crank it and it gets tube-ier. Breaks up with GOOD overdrive. I've dimed the clean channels gain and master volume and it sounds so Fendery tubey overdrive it'snot funny.

yegbert · November 14th, 2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago Slim

I've resently switched to SS amps...

I'll bet a lot of folks here would resent having to switch to SS.

(I know what you meant Chicago Slim and no slam intended, it's just that your mispelling was too cool a Freudian slip to go unnoticed!)

petebradt · November 14th, 2005, 10:35 PM

Rob Rent · November 15th, 2005, 02:58 PM

I've run into some really good deals as well as some of my friends are trying to make me "see the light" as far as some of these modeling amps go.....within the last 2 weeks I've purchased a Peavey Vegas 400 and the Yamaha equivalent...something like 300 ss watts and a big ol' heavy duty 15" speaker...I'm also borrowing a Line6 Flextone and a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb...I haven't taken the Flextonre out on a gig yet...but man oh man does it sound good in the den.I can dial in any amp I've ever thought of and I don't know if it sounds like that amp....but it sure as Hell sounds VERY good. Kinda funny about drive and distortion though....you dial in the amount of grind you want and the volume and...that's what you get PERIOD...you can have it sound like a vibrolux really being pushed hard (like some of the sounds Roy and Danny would conjure) but have it a volume that you can still talk to your wife along side of. The Peavey and Yamaha were just extra good deals ($150...each)and I'm toying with different uses for them....I have a pedal that's supposed to do the rotating speaker thing better than any other....running it into those amps separated somewhat might be pretty cool....or I might use one of them along with a tube amp that breaks up a little....who knows.....
now what's the deal with that Indian/turkey/Pilgrim thing?

Farfel · November 15th, 2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Rent

now what's the deal with that Indian/turkey/Pilgrim thing?

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

PostoronnimV · November 15th, 2005, 03:20 PM

Rob Rent, what's the rotating speaker pedal you are talking? (I'd like to find a DIY project for this kind of pedal)

rmielech · November 15th, 2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farfel

What's the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp, concerning clean and distortion?

Get yourself one of the Vox Valvetronix series or a Peavey XXL. I've got both. The sounds out of either of these tend to make arguing about tubes vs. SS meaningless. They both sound good, and that's the whole idea.

captain gorgeous · November 16th, 2005, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farfel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Rent

now what's the deal with that Indian/turkey/Pilgrim thing?

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

that's a little cheeky for someone who's just asked rather a big question themselves.

November 11th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Farfel Tele-Meister Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Illinos Posts: 358 4 Photos	Tube vs Solid State What's the difference between a tube amp and a solid state amp, concerning clean and distortion?

November 11th, 2005, 02:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
trag-o-caster Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Flushing, Michigan Posts: 4,631	I think that the search function could answer this question much more accurately than the minor war that's going to break out somewhere in the middle of , what will become, this thread. Edited to add: I own several of both kinds, and there has never been one occasion where I've used one of my solid state amps onstage and thought "Darnnit - I wish that I would've brought a tube amp". If they didn't have "That Sound" to begin with, they wouldn't be here in the collection. __________________ Timothy Jon Lamb

November 11th, 2005, 03:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
J-man Moderator Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Wales/Scarborough Age: 20 Posts: 6,371 9 Photos	First off: tone wise the difference is in each model of amp, not whether it's tube or SS. The main differences clean/distortion wise is that when you push the volume on an SS amp it will break up and distort, but it will sound like the amp is broken, and not ear pleasing at all. A tube amp when pushed will cause the valves to work harder and will create natural distortion, BUT this distortion will sound just like a small amount of gain added (which is exactly what it is), this is why many people prefer tube amps. In fact most tube amps sound best when the volume is getting into what would be the danger zone on an SS amp. __________________ Write a wise saying and your name will live forever. - Unknown "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away." - Tom Waits

November 11th, 2005, 03:39 PM	#5 (permalink)
tdu Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 32 Posts: 2,531 11 Photos	They should combone all these threads and just make it one sticky thread at the top of the forum. Anytime anyone wants more inout they can just add to that thread. __________________ Torn Down Units brand Rock n' Roll My Solo Stuff:

November 11th, 2005, 03:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
boogaloo Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: S/E Pa. Age: 52 Posts: 1,129	I'll Jump In Early and then watch as the flames grow higher... IMO tube amps have a distinct edge over SS amps, both in the clean and overdriven departments. Exception might be in extreme distortion situations (I really don't know- I don't play or regularly listen to that kind of music...) I've recently heard some pretty darn good SS amps. But having said that, they are usually "emulating" a driven tube amp, or a certain make/model of a tube amp. The one that immediately comes to mind is Tech 21. I have a Trademark 10 and it has some sweet tones and harmonics pretty close to the tube amps I have. Yet, theres something a little lacking. The notes don't quite "decay" the way they do on my tube amps. The harmonics that I hear so clearly on my tube amps are not quite as prevalent on my SS amp. Theres also a warmth and throaty-ness present in my tube amps that is not nearly there in my SS amp. Of course there are differences among the myriad of SS amps available too! I A/B'd a Roland Cube 30 amp using COSM and compared it to my Tech 21- between the two the Tech 21 won IMO- more natural note decay, more natural sounding harmonics, although of course the Cube had more oompf. Bottom line for me- I've yet to find a SS amp that delivers my tone like a tube amp can, clean or dirty. I think many guitarists feel the same way- just look at the shear numbers of SS amplifier manufacturers touting their amps as "breaking up like _____" "sustaining like a _______ amp" "emulating_________amp" and note that the amps they are mimicking are almost exculsively tube amps. The only SS amp I've ever seen emulated is the Roland Jazz/Chorus Amp. Brian __________________ "..and I've got some tricks up my sleeve...oh yes indeed! It might come back to haunt 'cha..don't you throw that Mojo on me!"

November 11th, 2005, 02:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
gls500 Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 894	And on top of that, just spend some time at your local guitar store and play and listen (listen to your playing, not the opinion of the guitar store guys ;). Really, everyone has a different take on it. Develop your own.

November 11th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sidney Vicious Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Posts: 1,245 13 Photos	Dog gone it, Farfel I never thought I'd have to say these words, but could you slow that turkey down?

November 12th, 2005, 04:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sidney Vicious Tele-Afflicted Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Posts: 1,245 13 Photos	Well what the heck is that Indian wailing on the Pilgrim with if it? If it ain't a turkey I give up!

November 12th, 2005, 05:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
PostoronnimV Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2005 Location: H Age: 26 Posts: 139 6 Photos	I am still wondering why Les Paul plays his trademark 60 weekly?

November 12th, 2005, 05:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bill Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 2,696 59 Photos	Man, all this time I thought he was doffing his cowboy hat and hittin' the guy with it. __________________ B i l l B a e c k A journal of our year in London

November 12th, 2005, 09:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
ducatiman TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 76	tube vs solid state i gotta say, some solid state amps have caught up real close in the tone department. they are also just plain practical. i own both a blackface bassman and a tech 21 tm60 (modded with avatar "hellatone " speaker, its a a celestion vintage 30 pre broken in and relabeled by avatar). the tech 21 is the "grab and go". no worries about bringing spare fuses, tubes (or a back up amp) to a gig. my BF bassman is 40 some years old, and as such, i use it only for more special gigs. BOTH sound great, accept pedals very well, plenty of headroom, but the BF is vintage, the tech 21 can be easily replaced, not so easy for the bassman. i'd hate to see it dropped, a beer spilled into it , or have it stolen at a gig. as a result, the tm60 gets the nod a lot and gives great service, light weight, and damn, its a fun , great sounding amp in its own right . as for les paul using a tm60, he's not overdriving at all, and the tm60 does a great "dark" jazz tone. it suits his needs. oh boy, here come the flames....... ducatiman

November 13th, 2005, 01:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
Joe-Bob Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 4,016	There's nothing at all wrong with either type of amp...except for the fact that there are so many bad amps being made right now...of both types. Do your research, think about your style, and what type of music you'll be playing most, will you be gigging? doing covers? just country? Do you most need clean headroom, or versatility?...etc. You need to clearly define your needs, and then find the amp that fits them perfectly. Don't try to be a cheapskate, but you don't have to spend $3000 either. Choose wisely, and have fun. __________________ "German is the language God uses when He really means business." --FZ

November 14th, 2005, 08:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
Chicago Slim Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sebastion FL Posts: 333	Solid State amps have improved a lot. I've owned everything from an early 50's Fender Deluxe to a modern Mesa/Boogie. I always carried a backup tube amp, for when tubes go bad. They are easy to fix, but you don't have the time to do it, when your on stage. I've resently switched to SS amps because I can get high distortion at a lower stage volume, and use a line out to a PA. In the past this wasn't an option. Tube amps still do a mild breakup better for blues, but I can get paid four times as much to play other music.

November 14th, 2005, 10:35 PM	#20 (permalink)
petebradt Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Niner Country Posts: 3,519 12 Photos

November 15th, 2005, 02:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
Rob Rent Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Baltimore Maryland Posts: 393	I've been looking at this a LOT recently I've run into some really good deals as well as some of my friends are trying to make me "see the light" as far as some of these modeling amps go.....within the last 2 weeks I've purchased a Peavey Vegas 400 and the Yamaha equivalent...something like 300 ss watts and a big ol' heavy duty 15" speaker...I'm also borrowing a Line6 Flextone and a blackface Fender Deluxe Reverb...I haven't taken the Flextonre out on a gig yet...but man oh man does it sound good in the den.I can dial in any amp I've ever thought of and I don't know if it sounds like that amp....but it sure as Hell sounds VERY good. Kinda funny about drive and distortion though....you dial in the amount of grind you want and the volume and...that's what you get PERIOD...you can have it sound like a vibrolux really being pushed hard (like some of the sounds Roy and Danny would conjure) but have it a volume that you can still talk to your wife along side of. The Peavey and Yamaha were just extra good deals ($150...each)and I'm toying with different uses for them....I have a pedal that's supposed to do the rotating speaker thing better than any other....running it into those amps separated somewhat might be pretty cool....or I might use one of them along with a tube amp that breaks up a little....who knows..... now what's the deal with that Indian/turkey/Pilgrim thing? __________________ A lot of what these guys play might not be blues........but it sure makes me sad to listen to it.

November 15th, 2005, 03:20 PM	#23 (permalink)
PostoronnimV Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2005 Location: H Age: 26 Posts: 139 6 Photos	Rob Rent, what's the rotating speaker pedal you are talking? (I'd like to find a DIY project for this kind of pedal)