Vintage Jensen C10Q ??

Boudreaux · August 12th, 2005, 04:43 PM

(Edited to add...see I never get lucky. I got beat out in the last 30 secs, the question still applies tho)

Well...in the interest of making my dripedge VR really happy, I just bought these:

Long LINK made shorter (You're welcome.) ;-)

(Sorry, I have yet to learn how to post a linky.)

My question is, given the fact that these seem to be in great condition, and that many consider the real C10Qs to be the "holly grail" for Vibroluxes...why did I actually get them. I mean how. I never get lucky.

Or is there something here I just don't see.[/url]

Wally · August 12th, 2005, 07:47 PM

Boudreaux, I got so lucky one time....I bought 6 C10Q's that came out of some 6X10 cab...Silvertone I think. they are 2 sets of matching dates....3 from the 51st week of '66 and 3 from the 52nd week of '66. I don't know what I'll ever do with them. 8)
Also, you stole those speakers. Good buy!

Tim Swartz · August 12th, 2005, 08:45 PM

It could still be your lucky day if Wally wants to part with a pair...

TT100 · August 14th, 2005, 04:06 PM

Good score.

I just picked up a pair or pristine '65 C12Qs locally for $140

TT100

Wally · August 15th, 2005, 05:03 PM

Good score, TT, especially if they match numbers for a vintage amp. If these vintage speakers make an amp 'whole' again, imo the value of the speaker could and should bring more than thet $75. Certainly, the ebay price that Boudreaux scooped was a good one. I have noticed that ebay prices for speakers lags behind what I consider to be the market price for these vintage speakers. Maybe that's because there is just a small market of people looking to make an old amp correct...and it is hard to get the supply for a specific code together with the demand for that code.

TT100 · August 15th, 2005, 11:10 PM

Actually I'm holding them for a DR eventually. Or for a DR clone.

My Pro R is an early '68 and I have an eye out for appropriately dated '68 C12Ns for it. At a reasonable cost of course.

Wally · August 16th, 2005, 12:56 PM

TT100, you came close on that one. I have 2 '68 C12Q's...220834. Those might run your Pro Rev but wouldn't be quite as clean. 8)

TT100 · August 16th, 2005, 01:41 PM

Thanks Wally. I have the two C12Qs in the ProR now and they are much cleaner than the Legend 122s I pulled. Still though, the ProR isn't an extremely clean amp above about 4 or 5. I've learned that the OT is a little small for TR cleans and some guys sub bassman OTs for more headroom.

Anyway, I bought the C12Qs as they're my favorite DR speaker and I wanted to shelve them till I find the right '67 to '72 or so DR. Also, the Pro R can probably shred them if I'm not careful.

I'm missing the Legends bluesy vintage Jensen vibe so they're probably going back in soon.

TT100

Wally · August 16th, 2005, 02:14 PM

TT, I don't know if they would suit your style or not, but the Emi Legend GB128 is a great speaker for the Pro Rev, imo. It is very efficient, has a big bottom and nice warm highs which works well if you like to push that small OT into saturation. Overall, warm woody tones...and the GB makes the Pro Reverb a much bigger sounding amp.

TT100 · August 16th, 2005, 04:57 PM

Sorry for thoroughly hijacking the thread.

Thanks for the tip Wally. Emi has so many speakers it's impossible to get a handle on what gives what. At this point I'm chasing high end detail without harshness. I have a buddies '67 Gibson Duo-Medalist that I'm supposed to be modding for less treble. It's a 25 watt 7591 push - pull w/ a C12N and my P90 Les Paul GT just stings through it. It really emphasises the P90's overtones and "honk & squawk."

A speaker that emphasises bottom and mids isn't what I'm wanting. I leave the low end to the bass players.

Cheers,

TT100

randysmojo · August 17th, 2005, 10:52 PM

I have a '65 super that has one C10Q in it that was a replacement back in the early 70's. I'm wondering if they hooked it up right, and there are no markings to tell which post is negative and which is positive. Could anyone tell me, if you are looking at the back of the speaker, and the posts are on the side closest to you(the bottom) is the left negative or the right? They had the left side hooked up to negative, but the reissues I just got in are opposite.

Dave Harmon · August 18th, 2005, 02:07 AM

If you have only one speaker, it does not matter which way it is hooked up.
If you want to identify the negative speaker terminal, unplug the speaker from the chassis and connect a flashlight battery to the speaker terminals.
The speaker cone will move inward when the negative speaker terminal is connected to the negative terminal of the battery.

Dave

Wally · August 18th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon

If you have only one speaker, it does not matter which way it is hooked up.
If you want to identify the negative speaker terminal, unplug the speaker from the chassis and connect a flashlight battery to the speaker terminals.
The speaker cone will move inward when the negative speaker terminal is connected to the negative terminal of the battery.

Dave

Just a reminder, do not CONNECT the battery leads to the speaker. While holding the negative battery lead to a speaker terminal and observing the speaker cone, quickly touch the positive lead to the other speaker terminal. As Dave says, positive to positive contact will move the cone forward.
If you leave the battery connected to the terminals for some relatively short time, you can burn the voice coil with that little battery.

randysmojo · August 18th, 2005, 01:02 PM

OK. Some thing is confussing me a little. One said with negative to negative the cone would move in, one said with positive to positive, which would be the same thing, the cone would move forward. Forward meaning if you are at the back it will move toward you? Basically when you get positive to positve, and negative to negative, does the speaker cone pull back into the basket, or move away from the basket?

Wally · August 18th, 2005, 01:31 PM

Forward movement would be when the cone moves away from the basket and thereby pushes air out from the front of the amp. This test is helpful especially for vintage Jensens since they sometimes operate backwards from other speakers.

randysmojo · August 18th, 2005, 01:40 PM

One of you said the speaker would move forward, the other said it would move inward. I believe I had heard before that it was forward, but I just wanted someone to clearify. If it indeed is forward, than that speaker has been hooked up backwards for a good thirty years now! I got it from the second owner who was told by the first owner that they replaced the original speaker with the Jensen when the original CTS got physically damaged. The other three CTS speakers were completely frozen in place when I got it, so I just put reissue Jensens in it.

Dave Harmon · August 18th, 2005, 01:42 PM

I didn't mean to connect the battery for any length of time....hehe

Randy...
If the speaker cone moves away from the basket, the positive speaker terminal will be connected to the positive side of the battery.

If the speaker cone moves toward the basket, the positive speaker terminal will be connected to the negative side of the battery.

Wally and I are saying the same thing.

This polarity thing does not make any difference in sound if there is only one speaker.

If the amp has more than one speaker (for the purpose of this discussion) each positive terminal must be connected together and each negative terminal must be connected together, then wired to the chassis output.

Each speaker cone must move air the same direction at the same time as all the other speakers or the amp will sound bad.

randysmojo · August 18th, 2005, 02:19 PM

Great! It's an open back, ('65 super) so I guess the one speaker hooked up in reverse didn't totally kill the sound and volume, but that would explain the lack of ear bleeding volume, and why it got farty distortion at higher volumes! When I get home I will wire it up correctly, and tomorrow my new project tele arrives, so I will post and let ya'll know the outcome!

Dave Harmon · August 18th, 2005, 02:35 PM

Randy.....it may not fix everything but all speakers have to work together for sure for the best sound possible.
There may be other things that have to be done to make it sound like it is supposed to such as some tube selection and componant replacement and/or selection for the tone you are expecting from this amp.

randysmojo · August 18th, 2005, 02:46 PM

Believe it or not, the amp actually sounds pretty good as it is, now that I replaced the crapped out CTS speakers in the other three spots with reisue Jensens. I can't wait to get that one wired right and see how it sounds.

Dave Harmon · August 18th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Check them all for the correct wiring and then let us know what happens......

I like to wire them so that all cones move away from the basket when the positive terminal of the battery is connected to the tip of the plug that goes into the jack on the chassis.

Have fun!

August 12th, 2005, 04:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Boudreaux Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: OK, USA Posts: 205	Vintage Jensen C10Q ?? (Edited to add...see I never get lucky. I got beat out in the last 30 secs, the question still applies tho) Well...in the interest of making my dripedge VR really happy, I just bought these: Long LINK made shorter (You're welcome.) ;-) (Sorry, I have yet to learn how to post a linky.) My question is, given the fact that these seem to be in great condition, and that many consider the real C10Qs to be the "holly grail" for Vibroluxes...why did I actually get them. I mean how. I never get lucky. Or is there something here I just don't see.[/url] __________________ Somewhere to the South, I heard them say...

August 12th, 2005, 08:45 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tim Swartz Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan - Tweenst the Great Lakes Posts: 1,904	It could still be your lucky day if Wally wants to part with a pair... __________________

August 17th, 2005, 10:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
randysmojo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boerne, TX Age: 33 Posts: 409	Which side is negative? I have a '65 super that has one C10Q in it that was a replacement back in the early 70's. I'm wondering if they hooked it up right, and there are no markings to tell which post is negative and which is positive. Could anyone tell me, if you are looking at the back of the speaker, and the posts are on the side closest to you(the bottom) is the left negative or the right? They had the left side hooked up to negative, but the reissues I just got in are opposite.

August 18th, 2005, 02:07 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dave Harmon TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 23	Speaker Polarity If you have only one speaker, it does not matter which way it is hooked up. If you want to identify the negative speaker terminal, unplug the speaker from the chassis and connect a flashlight battery to the speaker terminals. The speaker cone will move inward when the negative speaker terminal is connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Dave

August 18th, 2005, 01:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dave Harmon TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 23	Speaker Polarity I didn't mean to connect the battery for any length of time....hehe Randy... If the speaker cone moves away from the basket, the positive speaker terminal will be connected to the positive side of the battery. If the speaker cone moves toward the basket, the positive speaker terminal will be connected to the negative side of the battery. Wally and I are saying the same thing. This polarity thing does not make any difference in sound if there is only one speaker. If the amp has more than one speaker (for the purpose of this discussion) each positive terminal must be connected together and each negative terminal must be connected together, then wired to the chassis output. Each speaker cone must move air the same direction at the same time as all the other speakers or the amp will sound bad.

August 12th, 2005, 07:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Boudreaux, I got so lucky one time....I bought 6 C10Q's that came out of some 6X10 cab...Silvertone I think. they are 2 sets of matching dates....3 from the 51st week of '66 and 3 from the 52nd week of '66. I don't know what I'll ever do with them. 8) Also, you stole those speakers. Good buy!

August 14th, 2005, 04:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	Good score. I just picked up a pair or pristine '65 C12Qs locally for $140 TT100

August 15th, 2005, 05:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Good score, TT, especially if they match numbers for a vintage amp. If these vintage speakers make an amp 'whole' again, imo the value of the speaker could and should bring more than thet $75. Certainly, the ebay price that Boudreaux scooped was a good one. I have noticed that ebay prices for speakers lags behind what I consider to be the market price for these vintage speakers. Maybe that's because there is just a small market of people looking to make an old amp correct...and it is hard to get the supply for a specific code together with the demand for that code.

August 15th, 2005, 11:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	Actually I'm holding them for a DR eventually. Or for a DR clone. My Pro R is an early '68 and I have an eye out for appropriately dated '68 C12Ns for it. At a reasonable cost of course.

August 16th, 2005, 12:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	TT100, you came close on that one. I have 2 '68 C12Q's...220834. Those might run your Pro Rev but wouldn't be quite as clean. 8)

August 16th, 2005, 01:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	Thanks Wally. I have the two C12Qs in the ProR now and they are much cleaner than the Legend 122s I pulled. Still though, the ProR isn't an extremely clean amp above about 4 or 5. I've learned that the OT is a little small for TR cleans and some guys sub bassman OTs for more headroom. Anyway, I bought the C12Qs as they're my favorite DR speaker and I wanted to shelve them till I find the right '67 to '72 or so DR. Also, the Pro R can probably shred them if I'm not careful. I'm missing the Legends bluesy vintage Jensen vibe so they're probably going back in soon. TT100

August 16th, 2005, 02:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	TT, I don't know if they would suit your style or not, but the Emi Legend GB128 is a great speaker for the Pro Rev, imo. It is very efficient, has a big bottom and nice warm highs which works well if you like to push that small OT into saturation. Overall, warm woody tones...and the GB makes the Pro Reverb a much bigger sounding amp.

August 16th, 2005, 04:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
TT100 Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 214	Sorry for thoroughly hijacking the thread. Thanks for the tip Wally. Emi has so many speakers it's impossible to get a handle on what gives what. At this point I'm chasing high end detail without harshness. I have a buddies '67 Gibson Duo-Medalist that I'm supposed to be modding for less treble. It's a 25 watt 7591 push - pull w/ a C12N and my P90 Les Paul GT just stings through it. It really emphasises the P90's overtones and "honk & squawk." A speaker that emphasises bottom and mids isn't what I'm wanting. I leave the low end to the bass players. Cheers, TT100

August 18th, 2005, 01:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
randysmojo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boerne, TX Age: 33 Posts: 409	OK. Some thing is confussing me a little. One said with negative to negative the cone would move in, one said with positive to positive, which would be the same thing, the cone would move forward. Forward meaning if you are at the back it will move toward you? Basically when you get positive to positve, and negative to negative, does the speaker cone pull back into the basket, or move away from the basket?

August 18th, 2005, 01:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wally Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 4,212	Forward movement would be when the cone moves away from the basket and thereby pushes air out from the front of the amp. This test is helpful especially for vintage Jensens since they sometimes operate backwards from other speakers.

August 18th, 2005, 01:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
randysmojo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boerne, TX Age: 33 Posts: 409	One of you said the speaker would move forward, the other said it would move inward. I believe I had heard before that it was forward, but I just wanted someone to clearify. If it indeed is forward, than that speaker has been hooked up backwards for a good thirty years now! I got it from the second owner who was told by the first owner that they replaced the original speaker with the Jensen when the original CTS got physically damaged. The other three CTS speakers were completely frozen in place when I got it, so I just put reissue Jensens in it.

August 18th, 2005, 02:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
randysmojo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boerne, TX Age: 33 Posts: 409	Great! It's an open back, ('65 super) so I guess the one speaker hooked up in reverse didn't totally kill the sound and volume, but that would explain the lack of ear bleeding volume, and why it got farty distortion at higher volumes! When I get home I will wire it up correctly, and tomorrow my new project tele arrives, so I will post and let ya'll know the outcome!

August 18th, 2005, 02:35 PM	#19 (permalink)
Dave Harmon TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 23	Speaker Polarity Randy.....it may not fix everything but all speakers have to work together for sure for the best sound possible. There may be other things that have to be done to make it sound like it is supposed to such as some tube selection and componant replacement and/or selection for the tone you are expecting from this amp.

August 18th, 2005, 02:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
randysmojo Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boerne, TX Age: 33 Posts: 409	Believe it or not, the amp actually sounds pretty good as it is, now that I replaced the crapped out CTS speakers in the other three spots with reisue Jensens. I can't wait to get that one wired right and see how it sounds.

August 18th, 2005, 02:56 PM	#21 (permalink)
Dave Harmon TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 23	Speaker Polarity Check them all for the correct wiring and then let us know what happens...... I like to wire them so that all cones move away from the basket when the positive terminal of the battery is connected to the tip of the plug that goes into the jack on the chassis. Have fun!