Weber speaker critcism-my opinion...

[Wiredman]

I recently put Eminence Ragin Cajun speakers- with terrific results-in my Vibroblux Reveb and thought I'd try the recommended Weber 10F150-T in my silverface Princeton reverb amp. The speaker sounds middy, honky ,no real crisp bright tones no good breakup, ect. I then hooked up the Ragin Cajun speakers to the Princeton and it was night and day. There's the treble, the great breakup-these Eminence speakers must be tuned for Fender amps. This is the 3rd Weber speaker I've tried and I haven't liked any of them. Should have stuck with an Eminence- the Ragin Cajun or the Copperhead which I've also heard good things about. Not only that, the Eminence are $54 and the Weber is $85. My opinion-save yourself some money and try the Eminence for replacements.

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by Wiredman

My opinion-save yourself some money and try the Eminence for replacements.

Others have shared your opinion here as well. So, it's not the first or even second bad comment I've heard about those speakers.

:? Makes a person wonder...

[Wayne Alexander]

Weber makes hundreds of speaker models, you seem to have chosen the wrong ones for the amps you tried them in, or you didn't give them time to break in. It takes a good 20-60 hours of loud playing for most of the Weber speakers I've had to break in enough that they sound like they should. I've had great luck with Weber speakers and found them to be as high quality as anybody's. The Eminence lines are also quite good, and you seem to have picked good ones for the amps you're using them with.

[Wiredman]

I know what you're saying about breaking speakers in-but if you were here and heard the difference-the Eminence sounded great right out of the box and will probably only get better-these Webers will never cut it for me. I'll put them up for sale and get an Eminence replacement. As for them making "hundreds of speakers" maybe that's part of the problem. Disappointing, and not worth the wait.

[fenderfan]

This is not to criticize your comments or to put down Eminence, but if we are listing various opinions on
Webers, I'll just mention that I play a large number of gigs per year and have had great results with several different models of Weber speakers - I have always found them to be complex, with great tone and response. I will admit to being a dedicated Weber man for my speaker choices, but it's based solely on heavy gigging experience with them.

[tele71]

currently running tow 10f150ts in my tremolux and they sounded great out of the box and are sounding even better now. I also have shelved my cali 12s for a pair of SROs in the twin. The calis soung good but not as good as the EVs to my ears.
P

[Tremo]

You tried the wrong Weber, buddy. If you're looking for a bright and breakup, the 10F150 series is NOT what you want. Those speakers have a lot of headroom and are a bit dark/warm voiced.

You should have tried the 10F125, which is much brighter, and breaks up at a lower level.

[mark norwine]

The 10F150-T came about during a phone call between me & Ted Weber one night a few years ago. I was looking for the big bottom of a {then called} C10N, but the bright articulation of a {then called} C10Q. I asked if the "Q" paper could be dinked out to accomidate the larger "N" coil. Ted said he'd never done it before, but would try. The result was the C10NQ, now called the 10F150-T.

I loved it & bought a lot of them. I used to reccomend them, too.

I will not say "weber speakers are crap" {the title of this thread}, and never will. They are not crap...they are fine speakers. But I will wholeheartedly state that to my ears the Copperhead sounds much better. Not different, per se, but "better". Highly similar, but...."better".

Moreover, the Cajun simply blows me away with the complexity of it's tones.

And of course, the old Legend 102 is "alnico at it's finest".

No, Weber speakers are not crap. But a host of alternatives are readily available off the shelf {not custom made with long lead times}, at lower prices that sound as good or better. To me it's kind of a "no brainer".

Plus, Eminence speakers are made in America. Now, to be fair, so are the Webers, but every time I used to speak to Ted on the phone, he bragged about how cheap he was getting all his components from the People's ROC. I find that a bit distasteful, but that's just me.

Anyway, I've made the switch...glad I did, too!

[petebradt]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

Plus, Eminence speakers are made in America. Now, to be fair, so are the Webers, but every time I used to speak to Ted on the phone, he bragged about how cheap he was getting all his components from the People's ROC. I find that a bit distasteful, but that's just me.

[shakedancer]

I'd say thet Rajun Cajun must be real good if David Allen is using them in his amps. Hey Pete, your quite a dancer!

[stantheman]

If I could "EV" or "JBL" or "Altec" or "SRO" all of 'em I'd do it in a New York Minute.
Different strokes for different Folks....
Anybody stick 4 of them Ragin' Cajuns in a '59 Bassman
yet ?
I'd like to know the prognosis if Ya have....
could be interesting.

[Wiredman]

by starting this post and calling the Weber's bad names. It's not what I was expecting when I got the speaker, but they have a popular product and I'm sure there are many who have had good results with them. Guess it doesn't hurt to kick up a little dust.

[Tim Armstrong]

Feel free to edit the thread title, then!

Cheers, Tim

[Melody]

If you ever have problem with one of there products all you get is the runaround! His PR guy (his son) TA can be a real ass..Trys too turn it all aroud on you covering there butt's..I'll never give them my hard earned money again!! YMMV

[jumpnblues]

Wow...this is the first time I've heard this many less than positive comments on Weber speakers. I certainly won't dismiss other's experiences with Webers and I've been on this board long enough to know that people like Mark Norwine and Pete Bradt know what they're talking about. However, I can only say highly positive things about any model of Weber I've ever used and the service I received. I've used most models from the "Vintage Series" in everything from Victorias (Bassman and Pro), to Allens (40 watt Encore with 4x10's and 1x15") and Dr.Z's (Route 66 with 2x12" ported Thiele cab, and Carmen Ghia), and Fender Vibrolux Reverb. I've found ALL the Weber speakers I've used to be incredibly complex, very detailed, and rich sounding. Gosh, Weber has a dizzying array of models to choose from and I think it would be difficult not to find a speaker that would give you exactly what you're looking for. Ted has always been very accomodating to me allowing me to return one model of speaker for another to "find my tone". And I usually received anything I ordered (speakers, MASS, copper caps, etc.) within 1-3 weeks.
That said, I've not had a chance to try any of the newer Eminence speakers and I'll have to admit that Mark and Pete have piqued my interest with their comments. Doesn't Ted carry Eminence speakers and perform mods and tweaks to them? I'm not sure of his connection to Eminence. Can someone set me straight on that?
One last comment...I've been around long enough to know that even under the best of circumstances a customer can feel like they didn't get the service, treatment, or product they expected. Apparently this is what's happened to some of the posters here. I'm familiar with Pete's unfortunate experience and have great respect for both Pete and Ted. So, I can only speak for myself when I say my experiences with WeberVST and their products have been overwhelmingly positive with no negative experiences to speak of. And with these experiences in mind I highly recommend their products and services. No connection with Weber. Just a very contented customer. Now...let's hear those Eminences.

[KBR]

I have used over 40 Weber speakers and find them the very best available.
I recommend the Alnico P10 Q, P10 Rs, Or a P 12N, (My faves) (10A125, 10A100, 12AQ150)
I have also used the Cali 15s and they are good.
Just my opinion as a working Pro.


Kenny Blue Ray

[dp2me]

tried several "very popular" models in a PR and I wasn't impressed. I know - they need broken in....but whatever. I've heard plenty of *new* stock speakers that sound fab. I think the whole speaker swap thing is overrated.

[Bob Arbogast]

Originally Posted by dp2me

I think the whole speaker swap thing is overrated.

In my experience, speakers are just about the most significant item in the tone chain. After all, it's the speaker that translates all that electronic stuff into something your ears can hear. Speakers vary hugely in their tonal character. I think that's why there are so many disappoinments with speakers, but also those magic combinations that sound amazing.

With speakers, everyone's mileage varies.

Bob Arbogast

[dp2me]

fingers are really the most important link in the tone chain. as are 100 other variables. if speakers do it for you, more power to ya. my general point is - choose a decent alnico or a decent ceramic, turn it up, and play. end of story. hopefully the amp you buy will have either or.

[NTC]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

Plus, Eminence speakers are made in America. Now, to be fair, so are the Webers, but every time I used to speak to Ted on the phone, he bragged about how cheap he was getting all his components from the People's ROC. I find that a bit distasteful, but that's just me.

Anyway, I've made the switch...glad I did, too!

My bet is that Eminence is also getting most of their parts from PROC or they would not be as cheap as they are. (Rant Mode ON) We make almost NOTHING in this country anymore. It is a wonder anyone even assembles anything here anymore. (Rant OFF). Granted, Eminence probably makes many times the quantity of speakers that Weber makes. And that can ALSO lead to lower prices.

I haven't tried any of these Eminence speakers people are refering to, but they were not making this broad range of things several years ago when I was in the speaker buying mode. At that time, WeberVST was the only place to get a broad range of speakers that people liked the sound of (well, and Celestion). The Eminence offerings were few and considered junk. I am sure the folks at Eminence saw what was going on and decided to make these better offerings. Simple supply and demand.

By the way, I have had good luck with some Weber models and bad luck with others, but it mostly has had to do with my taste and what I expect in my tone.


Mark Knapp

[Zac]

I have had great luck with Webers. It is more a matter of ordering the right speaker for your amp though. Speakers are an extremely important part the equation. Zac

[Tremo]

I bought some of the first P10Ns (now 10A150) that Ted made. They took a long time to break in. But they have WAY more low end than *any* other 10 incher I've ever heard, with the possible exception of a JBL D110. They also have a LOT of headroom, and when they do start to compress and break up, they are very smooth. They are a bit dark/warm, and I think that is what lead to the T / NQ models.

I put them in a 61 2x10 brownface Super, and it's loudern'hell, and sounds like a 2x12. I am very favorably impressed with those speakers.

I have also heard one of KBR's 2x12 cabs loaded with 12A150s, and can say they sound simply outstanding. I've additionally heard one of Ted's 15A150s, and it also sounded great. IMO, you can't go wrong with an XA150, if you're looking for big bottom, headroom, and very smooth breakup. They are NOT bright and crunchy, though, and if that's what you want, keep looking.

The new Eminence line has tweaked my interest. Do they have any alnico magnet models that compare with Ted's A150 models?

[Robin Nahum]

I have xxF150s in my SFVR and SFPro and couldn't be happier.

Putting a Cali in my old HRD considerably improved the tone over the stock Eminence in that model and when I sold the HRD, the Cali went to a Princeton 112+ and turned it from entry level model to a monster gig-strength amp.

I also tried Calis in the Pro at one point, didn't like 'em and they went to a Twin. Not crap - just didn't sound right in that box for what I do.

My amp tech who sees a lot more speakers than I do is also very impressed.

I have rung Ted on occasion and found him very helpful.

I am going to try a Cannabis Rex in my newly acquired 68 DR but this is purely to see what the fuss is about and not out of any dissatisfaction with Ted's products.

Wiredman, have you spoken to Ted?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Wiredman

... Guess it doesn't hurt to kick up a little dust.

Geez Louise. Yes, it does hurt. Ouch.

Ted Weber creates and offers quality guitar speakers. Eminence, and more than a few others, also make real quality speakers. I use them both in my personal combos and cabs, along with at least two other speaker brands. Some work better than others in certain situations, for me - not you.

When a certain Eminence speaker didn't "work for me", I'd have been offbase calling it a bad speaker. I found another application better suited to it's calling, but I also could have stuck it on the Garage Sale. And even so, I'd reserve decision until I felt the speaker was well broken in - something that way too many folks don't bother, or know how to do.

IMO, it's a very level playing field between Weber and Eminence, and neither even deserves to have their products even alluded to as possible "crap", or one touted as "better" than another. Not cool.

[telewacked]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

....I'd reserve decision until I felt the speaker was well broken in - something that way too many folks don't bother, or know how to do.

...neither even deserves to have their products even alluded to as possible "crap", or one touted as "better" than another. Not cool.

Well said as usuall Rob. Different strokes and all - it's nice to have choices and to have a designer and manufacturer of cool guitar stuff that you can actually talk to on the phone.

I'm curious (since I just purchased a new cab and speakers, neither Weber or Eminence) - what is your preferred method of breaking in speakers? I saw somewhere something about using a transformer, but it wasn't explained well enough for me to understand - it would be nice to have a way to do it at home that wouldn't disturb the whole house.

[JTM45blues]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

Geez Louise. Yes, it does hurt. Ouch.

one touted as "better" than another. Not cool.

Rob,

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here. I totally agree that we shouldn't view product "X" as "crap", but I do believe that we should be able to share dis-satisfying experiences with certain pieces of gear.

If we always touted everything as "the best thing since sliced bread" then we wouldn't be being honest with ourselves or others. Without some negative reviews, or "less than positive" commentary then some manufacturer's would never "take a step back" and analyze what they're doing so as to improve or modify their product to the end user. Example:

Lets say that I was building guitars with HUGE SQUARE NECKS, now some guys may like this, but lets say the majority complained about this feature. I as the maker would need to change my design in order to accomodate the public OR I could be stubborn to my ways and lose market share. Now which would you do?

I thought so.

All that said, I love Ted Weber's speakers, and for Jensen replacement's I can't speak highly enough about them.

As far as comparing Ted's Blue Dog to a Celestion Blue, unfortunately to my ear (and I've listened to alot of English speakers over the years) Ted's speaker lacks something, can't put my finger on it, but with the Blue the amp sounded glorious, with the Blue Dog, the amp sounded good. Both fine speakers, but everyone agreed one was "better", in that application (AC15 and AC30).

Just my $.02