Weber speaker critcism-my opinion...

[Robin Nahum]

nt

[Tim Armstrong]

Yep, well said, Ted.

YOU know that you make high quality speakers, and an extremely high percentage of your customers know it, too.

I'm presently working as a charter bus driver (subsidizes being a musician!) and the company's name and telephone number is on the back of the bus. I'm a careful, courteous driver, don't speed (much), am VERY careful about all the cars around me, and try very hard to keep a zen-like calm and a cheerful demeanor at all times (I try to do that away from work, too). The full-sized coach buses that I drive have governors on the drivetrain that keep them from going faster than 70 mph.

And last week, towards the end of a chater, I got a call from my boss on the cell phone, asking me what the hell was going on! Why was I driving so damned fast???

Seems some woman had called the office to complain about my reckless and dangerous driving, that I was tearing down US 50 at 85 miles an hour, and had just almost forced her off the road. My boss was livid, and all I could do was hand the phone to one of my passengers to confirm that I had been driving safely. When I got back to the office, my boss checked my Bay Bridge toll receipt and my arrival and departure times against Map Quest, and realized that I had completed the run within a minute of the predicted time (and I reminded him that the dang bus wouldn't go that fast, anyway!).

Bottom line: when your name (and in this case phone number) is out there in the public, no matter how good you do your job, someone is gonna ***** and moan. And someone else will probably say "me too!"

Thanks for making great speakers, Ted.

Cheers, Tim

ps- It's never too late for the original poster to edit the Subject line of this thread. It would be downright classy, in fact...

[mark norwine]

Ted et. al.,

I would ask you to review this thread.

In it, I said:

I will not say "weber speakers are crap" {the title of this thread}, and never will. They are not crap...they are fine speakers.

I later said it again......"No, Weber speakers are not crap."

Then you state:

MN has trashed me, us, our products,
and suddenly, seemingly overnight, our speakers...our speakers are no good "

These statements don't square off with each other.

I'd also ask you to find and re-post...from anywhere on the internet....any comment posted by me that trashes you, TA or the company. You won't find it. It's not there.

All I've ever said is that alternative speakers are available, and that I've made the switch.

Yes, I've said that the tight gaps have, in the past, been an issue for me, and is one of the reasons I've switched.

I have never publicly discussed our "falling out" {which, BTW has almost nothing to do with the Collins dustup on your BB},nor have I ever mentioned {let alone posted} any / all of the vitriolic e-mails you sent me in the summer of '03. I have no intention to start now, but I'd ask that it be realized that I've never, ever said anything publicly on any personal level, in writing, anywhere on any internet forum or private e-mail.

I haven't made any of our issues "personal" or "public" with anyone else, in writing, anywhere, ever. I'd ask that you not accuse me of doing so without proof.

Respectfully,

Mark Norwine
Former owner, Carlson Amplification, Inc.

[tweber]

Originally Posted by Tim Armstrong

Yep, well said, Ted.

Bottom line: when your name (and in this case phone number) is out there in the public, no matter how good you do your job, someone is gonna censored and moan. And someone else will probably say "me too!"
...

That's the strange behaviour I have seen on the net since I got on shortly after Al Gore invented it.
People get something stuck in their craw either because their feelings got hurt, (that's it most of the time), or just because they haven't had a certain success they wanted so no one else is allowed success. I see that all the time. There are some amp builders and techs trying their best to destroy us over this amp kits thing we started last fall. We were already selling parts - had been for a couple years - so we decided when we have enough parts to build an amp, we'd sell amp kits. We actually make less money from an amp kit (by far) than selling the parts individually (like parting out an automobile), but it has given people the opportunity to afford to build an amp, even a custom one buy using our kits as a baseline. Still, there are those amp builders who, having used our parts in the past and posted good comments about them, now decry them as imported crap. It's weird, but it's what we and others like us see every day. Sometimes we wonder if it is all worth it, but it is a fun hobby for me (I still have a day gig) and a good business for my son. So... we take the bad with the good and we keep chugging away.

Ted

[tweber]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

Ted et. al.,
.

Well Mark... all I can say is that
You know that I know that you know that I know that you know what the real issue is, and we both lose.

Ted

[mark norwine]

Well Mark... all I can say is that
You know that I know that you know that I know that you know what the real issue is, and we both lose.

Not that it matters, but if you think {as you cite in your previous post} the Craig Collins "dustup" was "the real issue", then, no, you don't know what the "real issue" is. You're not even close.

But please don't respond by posting accusations that are not supported by evidence. I've never, ever publicly denounced you, TA or your company nor have I ever aired our personal issues anywhere. I will promise to keep it that way.

Will you promise to stop publicly accusing me of saying & doing things that I haven't said or done?

mn

[Stan Martin]

First off, whether someone likes a speaker or not is up to the individual. I've seen Mark Norwine's posts on the various boards and he never insults the craftsmanship of the Weber's. He explains why he doesn't use them (too tight gap tolerance?) whatever. Someone posted " are Weber speakers crap"? MN did not say YES.
He said he prefers Eminence. So what.
I like the Reverend Alltone’s and the Eminence Legend series. Big deal. I have ordered 2 sets of Cali 12's from Ted, which were damaged in shipping, both times I might add. Ted gladly refunded my money. Does he make a crappy product? NO. Frankly UPS, FedEx et al are more damaging to a business' reputation. Ted's customer service skills are second to none.
I can understand two folks having a bit of "breaking up is hard to do" problems, but Mark N. has not sullied anyone’s reputation.
Which reminds me of a story. When my ex and I split, she use to try to get under my skin by saying "so and so is a better guitar player than you." Although deep down I knew it wasn't true it still bugged me. Ah feelings.

Anyway both Ted and Mark have and continue to make good products. I don't think folks on this board need to hop in one camp or the other to prove a point.
Now take the gloves off, shake hands and fahgetaboutit!

[Boudreaux]

Seems Ted said some very nice things about you.

And now you gotta go on and drag old stories back out. Why even bring Craig's name back up (he's a good guy - and I'm sure you are also)...

Let it go.

[tweber]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

Not that it matters, but if you think the Craig Collins "dustup" was "the real issue", then, no, you don't know what the "real issue" is.

I know what I know and also know I don't want to waste any more TDPRI bandwidth on something that appears to be more of a personal issue.
The issue will shake out, they always do, fortunately.

Take care.

Ted

[mark norwine]

An apology for accusing me of saying things I haven't said would not be a waste of bandwidth, IMO.

[gearfixer]

Originally Posted by mark norwine

The 10F150-T came about during a phone call between me & Ted Weber one night a few years ago. I was looking for the big bottom of a {then called} C10N, but the bright articulation of a {then called} C10Q. I asked if the "Q" paper could be dinked out to accomidate the larger "N" coil. Ted said he'd never done it before, but would try. The result was the C10NQ, now called the 10F150-T.

I loved it & bought a lot of them. I used to reccomend them, too.

I will not say "weber speakers are crap" {the title of this thread}, and never will. They are not crap...they are fine speakers. But I will wholeheartedly state that to my ears the Copperhead sounds much better. Not different, per se, but "better". Highly similar, but...."better".

Moreover, the Cajun simply blows me away with the complexity of it's tones.

And of course, the old Legend 102 is "alnico at it's finest".

No, Weber speakers are not crap. But a host of alternatives are readily available off the shelf {not custom made with long lead times}, at lower prices that sound as good or better. To me it's kind of a "no brainer".

Plus, Eminence speakers are made in America. Now, to be fair, so are the Webers, but every time I used to speak to Ted on the phone, he bragged about how cheap he was getting all his components from the People's ROC. I find that a bit distasteful, but that's just me.

Anyway, I've made the switch...glad I did, too!

ROC that would explain why his resistors and diodes and caps have a high failer rate. I've got components from him that just let go for no reason. I would like to see how long his homemade china parts speakers hold up as they get older. I've got a chance to listen to alot of Weber speakers and the only one I liked was the 15" JBL clone but not nearly as much as the real thing.

[Big Mike Simpson]

I put a pair of 10A125 speakers in a 2x10 vibroclone cabinet with a 66 BFSR amp and it sounds amazing... every time I am out with it someone comes up and wants to know.... "what kind of speakers do you have in that amp?"

I am very happy with these 10A125's and I special ordered them in 4ohm so I could wire up a 2ohm load for the 66 BFSR amp.

[Freight Twang]

WOW... This is one of the reasons I joined this forum. I must first say from a builders standpoint, I purchase Weber products for my amps, and go through 5 0r 10 speakers of various models every month. I have never had anything but quality and tone from them. Ted has also taken care of me and help me select the the perfect compliment to my amp line. They have taken my products to another level. As for the other speakers from Ky, there kind of like a cat, I haven't ever seen one that I care for, but that is just my feelings.

Isn't there other things we can argue, like which ext. cord sounds best or which guitar strap makes my rig sound great?.....ha.

[Acephspades]

The bottomline is to get the speaker best suited for your application. This also falls into that catagory of trying to make your Fender sound like a Marshall and this is what happens a lot of time IMO.

I have no experience with Weber but am familiar with Celestion Vintage 30's, Jensen and Eminence. In my opinion Celestion Vintage 30's don't sound that great with American voiced amps, the have a pretty harsh upper mid IMO but in an EL 34 or EL 84 amp they sound great. I have some Eminence Texas Heats I like, oddly enough one really warmed up my SS PV Bandit. I think they are good general purpose speaker, they don't really excell at any one area but have a nice warm tone. I'm still up in the air with the Jensens in my Twin. I think they are ok but I think there are better speakers but again I feel the Texas Heat speakers take away that "Fender" tone when using them with it.

I've been in contact with Eminence and they have been super curteous to me and that's what matters to me. I have no experience with other makers as I'm sure they are too.

[postjob62]

I don't own a Weber speaker, so I can't speak to the efficacy of the product.

But I will say that I recently wanted badly to try a pair and just needed a little pre-purchase support before I pulled the trigger. Several attempts to get in touch with them (over the course of a couple of months) yeilded no response. Zip, zero, nada.

I heard they were moving, but so what? Even an auto-response telling me they were out of pocket would have been nice. But any ongoing business that would go that long incommunicado is sending an "I don't care" message to it's customers and potential customers.

I found it particularly unsettling given Ted's reputation for being helpful and responsive.

[jlctele56]

never had anything but great experience's with Ted and his speakers.....Ted has gone out of his way to help me, and will do the same for you....millions of us love ya Ted......keep up the good work..(I know you will) I'll never buy anything but Ted's speakers, thats how happy I've been......Jerry

[WisconsinStrings]

Originally Posted by postjob62

I don't own a Weber speaker, so I can't speak to the efficacy of the product.

But I will say that I recently wanted badly to try a pair and just needed a little pre-purchase support before I pulled the trigger. Several attempts to get in touch with them (over the course of a couple of months) yeilded no response. Zip, zero, nada.

I heard they were moving, but so what? Even an auto-response telling me they were out of pocket would have been nice. But any ongoing business that would go that long incommunicado is sending an "I don't care" message to it's customers and potential customers.

I found it particularly unsettling given Ted's reputation for being helpful and responsive.

About a year ago I found my travels were taking me though Kokomo. I thought it would be pretty cool to stop by the International Global Worldwide Weber HQ and see where my amp kit was born. I emailed Ted a week or two ahead of time and never heard back. I figured I was being blown off, but I sent another email. This time I got a response right away. Ted was great, and welcomed me to stop by and see them. I could see after being there that Ted is a busy busy guy and he doesn't exactly have a fleet of secretaries helping him organize phone calls and email. No doubt emails and voice mails get lost from time to time.

Weber has a pretty good website to help us less knowledgeable folks pick the right speaker (or amp kit). If that still isn't enough, I think it's worth talking to Ted. His knowledge on the subject is amazing. He knows his product!

It's pretty hard to stay in business without making a person or two mad. I'm sure even companies like Harley Davidson, Fender, etc have people that aren't happy with them. With Internet message boards it seems like the bad news spreads faster then the good. This post is just my little part to spread some good about a smart engineer and business man busting his butt to produce a good product at a fair price.

[tdu]

I don't have a fraction of the tech knowledge that people on these forums have. Over time I have learned the valuable lesson about speakers breaking in though. It's like night and day.

I am extremely happy with the 10A125 and the 12F150 I use.

[Trimmed&Burnin]

All of my amps come with Webers stock unless the customer wants something else,,, and then I gently try to talk them out of it,,,,
Ted and TA both have been very helpful to me when I've asked for help and I have learned quite a bit about speakers from Ted and the use of Weber speakers. My amps have their own voice and Weber speakers are a part of that.

[mad dog]

I've had a lot more speaker experience since this thread first came out. Weber speakers -- particularly his P10Qs and Cali ceramics -- are longtime favorites now. (That Cali 15" is the best!) Meanwhile, the Emi CRexes and Copperheads are just as good. Both brands are excellent. Both companies are doing R&D with tangible results. I feel lucky to have speaker choices like this.

[rhinocaster]

In the Weber Ceramic Blue Dog, I found THE speaker that I'd been looking for all of my playing life. That speaker in a tweed amp just kills for me. I've ordered several of them over the years. I've never had trouble contacting Weber on the phone to place my order. I have tried different speaker by other builders, and have been impressed as well. Nothing has made me want to lose my Blue Dogs though.

I always found it funny that people on other forums would start threads with, "I'm having an amp built, what speaker should I go with?" They wouldn't give any specifics about what the amp was supposed to sound like, or what they wanted from a speaker, and people would just start telling them which speaker to buy! For every 4 great speaker options for your amp, you currently have about 100 terrible speaker options for the same amp.

I also try to remember that if a builder seems short with me (It's happened), or less than helpful, that it's only a consistent poor attitude that should be taken to heart. The fact that they answer the phone at all amazes me. They're not getting rich, and they're taking production time out of their day to help me with my needs.

[Bob Arbogast]

Am I the only one who noticed that for a first post ever, someone dredged up a 2-1/2 year old thread and threw gasoline on it to see if it would ignite? How sad, too, when we hold on to anger and jump at a new (or renewed) opportunity to express our bitterness.

Bob Arbogast

[rhinocaster]

Originally Posted by Bob Arbogast

Am I the only one who noticed that for a first post ever, someone dredged up a 2-1/2 year old thread and threw gasoline on it to see if it would ignite? How sad, too, when we hold on to anger and jump at a new (or renewed) opportunity to express our bitterness.

Bob Arbogast

I didn't notice either of those things!

However, I have no bitterness to share. Just positive experiences with a company.

[Tim Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Bob Arbogast

Am I the only one who noticed that for a first post ever, someone dredged up a 2-1/2 year old thread and threw gasoline on it to see if it would ignite? How sad, too, when we hold on to anger and jump at a new (or renewed) opportunity to express our bitterness.

Bob Arbogast

No, Bob, and I was scanning down to the end and was gonna post that same thought, but you beat me to it!

Sleeping dogs should be left sleeping!

Tim

[DavidP]

+1. Some like Weber stuff (like me!) and others don't--big deal. I'll shut up now and go play my guitar (and tweak my amp).