Gigged a '66 Princeton Reverb

[charlie chitlin]

Sure was sweet with any guitar I plugged into it!
When it sounded good, it was as good as anything, but when it sounded bad....
This amp just doesn't have the bass I need.
When I turned up the bass knob, it just went, BWAAAAA.
Nothing's perfect, I guess.
Sure has that midrange HONK, though.
When it's doing what it likes to do, it's a freakin' amazing thing!

[jguitarman]

I've tried giging with PR's more than once and have since given up for the same reason you mentioned. As you increase the volume the bottom end turns to mush.

[Big_Bend]

Agreed about the Princeton just not being able to get the nice clean headroom with some bass in it. Thats why some people modify theirs and put them into cabinets with 12" speakers.

I feel the same way about Deluxe Reverb amps too. I gota have a Super or Twin Reverb before I'm happy.

[jguitarman]

Funny that you mention the Deluxe Reverb. I have been gigging a DR with an old Jensen Vibranto speaker. The bottom end started sounding flabby and I thought the tubes were ok so I replaced the old speaker. Problem still existed. I then replaced the power tubes with new JJs. Problem still existed. I'm getting ready to take it in to have the caps checked out.

[BobbyZ]

If the amp is up to snuff. Then what speaker does it have in it now?

[jguitarman]

A Weber ceramic.

[Chiogtr4x]

I know a more efficient speaker would solve this problem and still preserve great tone- I use a '68 DR with and an Emi Red, White, and Blues speaker (120 watt), and it puts out a huge clean tone, no bass flub issues- but I do use OD pedals for breakup as I can have great clean or dirty at low or high amp volume.

A friend of mine has a '72 Princeton Reverb w/ an efficient Celestion 10" (don't know the model, I think it is a bass speaker) and it is a giant-killer!

[max_twang]

I regularly gigged with a non-reverb Princeton.

I put in the T020 OT and an efficient speaker and those changes helped a lot, but I usually dial the bass in pretty low (2-3). With humbuckers, the amp still has a hard time with the low end when it's cranked.

[figaro]

The Princeton Reverb's circuit is designed to have more low end than most Fender amps. It has a .02 input cap for the phase inverter and other Fenders have a .001 or .01 cap, which limits low end. When you use humbuckers and turn a PR up you need to turn the bass down. A 12" speaker and larger output transformer will help but then you're getting close to a Deluxe Reverb.

[macdog]

Experiment with Input 2.

[Mutato]

I gigged my '77 PR (with a Jensen 12") speaker and it rocked. Granted, I was not looking for a clean tone overall. More an edgy, slightly overdriven tone. I had a Boss Blues Driver set to low "edge" and the amp on something like 3-4. It was mic'd. But on stage was plenty loud enough for Bass player and Drummer to hear (as well as myself!). It def has some good upper Bass. Not huge, deep bass, but I didn't expect it to. Actually a nicely overdriven (amp plus Blues Driver) tone.

I then heard it from the audience when another band played through my rig. It sounded killer through the PA. Huge tone from such a small package.

[supersam]

Princeton's are great amps, but they are what they are. They're small amps, so in my opinion, you have to mic them if you want it to cut through the mix and sound big and full. A good speaker will also make all the difference, along with healthy tubes, and fresh caps. I don't have any flabby bass issues at all, but I'm also using single coils.

I've been gigging with my '69 Princeton non-verb for over a year now, and it sounds great. I regularly get compliments on my tone from people in the audience. There has been a few times where our stage volume started getting out of control and I couldn't hear myself, but I just turned myself up in the monitors and it was fine. I put the amp up on a chair for a gig once too and that helped quite a bit. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a larger amp for bigger rooms (I'd love to get a Pro Reverb), but this is what I have to work with at the moment and it's doing it's job just fine for me.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by max_twang

I regularly gigged with a non-reverb Princeton.

I put in the T020 OT and an efficient speaker and those changes helped a lot, but I usually dial the bass in pretty low (2-3). With humbuckers, the amp still has a hard time with the low end when it's cranked.

OK that is what I done with my MMB amp and since the MMB amp is also a 12 watt 6v6 amp it compares somewhat to a Princeton with a 12 inch speaker. I changed the PT also to make it what it should have been with the 6v6 tubes since Fender had the PT at 250 V per leg instead of 300 like it should have been. It also got a new cap job before the transformer mods and an input change. I also put a 102 DB Eminence Tonker in it. It now kicks pretty good for a small amp. How well did you find it hanging in the mix for stage volume could you hear it ok?

[max_twang]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

OK that is what I done with my MMB amp and since the MMB amp is also a 12 watt 6v6 amp it compares somewhat to a Princeton with a 12 inch speaker. I changed the PT also to make it what it should have been with the 6v6 tubes since Fender had the PT at 250 V per leg instead of 300 like it should have been. It also got a new cap job before the transformer mods and an input change. I also put a 102 DB Eminence Tonker in it. It now kicks pretty good for a small amp. How well did you find it hanging in the mix for stage volume could you hear it ok?

Stage volume was usually fine, and our drummer was about average in terms of loudness. We miked our amps, but my amp was not in the monitors much at all. What really helped me hear my amp was getting it up off the floor and pointing it at my head! I'm a big fan of amp stands now.

Your amp sounds cool. I'd love to get a MMB with 6V6's. IIRC, the circuit is not the same as the Princeton, but it seems like a great platform to mod, and I like the 12" speaker. I'd put one in my Princeton, but I'd have to cut up the baffle and I don't want to do that...

[markesquire]

I would love to HEAR some recordings (either live or studio) of people who claim to get huge tone from mic'ing their Princeton. I play a PRRI, and a speaker swap made a huge difference (Emi Ramrod 10"), but I could also use some tighter bass, and have considered getting a bigger output transformer.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by max_twang

Stage volume was usually fine, and our drummer was about average in terms of loudness. We miked our amps, but my amp was not in the monitors much at all. What really helped me hear my amp was getting it up off the floor and pointing it at my head! I'm a big fan of amp stands now.

Your amp sounds cool. I'd love to get a MMB with 6V6's. IIRC, the circuit is not the same as the Princeton, but it seems like a great platform to mod, and I like the 12" speaker. I'd put one in my Princeton, but I'd have to cut up the baffle and I don't want to do that...

No it is not exactly like a Princeton there are some differences like SS rectification instead of tube. Same with the Phase Inverter the MMB uses a transformer the Princeton a tube like most amps. No Tremolo ( A pedal takes care of that) and and less tone controls ( A eq pedal takes care of that) but considering it is a 12 watt amp with 6v6s It does have that Fender SF sound. I use a EQ to over come the only one tone control and it is nice having the 12 inch speaker. Note the EQ can give a bit of clean boost too.


A guy I knew brought over a BF Princeton a few years ago and from what I remember both amps sound pretty similar. Boy that Princeton ticked me off I knew the guy who owned it a old accordion player that was a shirt tail relative the amp went bad and I told him I would like to buy it but it was worth more than i could afford even with issues. He said he would sell it to me for 50 bucks if the repairs were more than he wanted to put into an amp. In the meantime a local guy who is a drummer said he would take it in and see what it would cost to fix. Repairs were 175 bucks I suspect a cap job and maybe a tube or two. Bottom line is he did not want to pay that much so he let the drummer take it. I was not happy about that deal at all I would have fixed it for parts for him if I knew that was gonna happen. The guy that brought the amp over did not own it he was borrowing it from the drummer guy.

[mlove3]

never understood the appeal of bar gigging with a 6V6 amp, it may break up and sing at relatively low volume but not enough girth and headroom for my tastes. More is better.
a 66? I'd be afraid to gig with anything that's worth more than my car.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

No it is not exactly like a Princeton there are some differences like SS rectification instead of tube. Same with the Phase Inverter the MMB uses a transformer the Princeton a tube like most amps. No Tremolo ( A pedal takes care of that) and and less tone controls ( A eq pedal takes care of that) but considering it is a 12 watt amp with 6v6s It does have that Fender SF sound. I use a EQ to over come the only one tone control and it is nice having the 12 inch speaker. Note the EQ can give a bit of clean boost too.


A guy I knew brought over a BF Princeton a few years ago and from what I remember both amps sound pretty similar..

I play these 2 amps exclusively. '75 Princeton (non reverb) and '78 MMB amp.
They really don't sound too similar at all. The MMB has ton more mid range and really cuts throught the mix, which is why I love to gig with it. It really takes pedals well, and you hear every nuance of each effect. With a compressor it spanks with some funky chord and single note dynamics. It is the best amp to test effect pedals. I often most often run the 2 amps in stereo for gigs. The Princeton is the one I mic, but they both sound great. I have tested the overall volume and they are really close, but depending on the settings the Priceton is much warmer and fuller sounding. I recently had a cap job and re0tube on the Princeton, and the new treble cap makes the amp really sing. I personally like keeping the bass around 8 and the treble on 5. With the treble up and bass down it can come pretty close to sounding like the MMB amp. I'd really like to hear and test with the mods you did on your MMB. I am sure it sounds great, cause I know how good mine sounds stock. I also recently upgraded the 12" MMB speaker to a Fender Eminence Legend from the HRDX amps, and it rocks. I love those speakers despite popular opinion. I am collecting them all the time for 20 bucks...folks are silly letting them go. I have a Weber 10F150t in the Princeton (50 watter!!!) to handle the clean boost for gigs.

[jh45gun]

RubyRae Well like I said I only heard that Princeton once but from what I remember they sound similar .You of course would know how both of your amps sound since you have them side by side. Muchxs says if you do the mods I did the MMB amps have a Princeton hiding inside. I am sure they are not exact but then like I said I use pedals for Reverb and Tremolo and I use a EQ to address the one tone knob issue. The Tonker makes a difference as does the EQ besides the mods I did.

[RubyRae]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

RubyRae Well like I said I only heard that Princeton once but from what I remember they sound similar .You of course would know how both of your amps sound since you have them side by side. Muchxs says if you do the mods I did the MMB amps have a Princeton hiding inside. I am sure they are not exact but then like I said I use pedals for Reverb and Tremolo and I use a EQ to address the one tone knob issue. The Tonker makes a difference as does the EQ besides the mods I did.

Ya, it's pretty cool IMO how good the amps are individually and stock. Not to mention that both have amazing potential for more too. Like you said with the mods you did to your MMB, and I have heard of some great mods to take the Princeton to a more effective gig amp. I have always wanted to get another of both to max out the potential in them. The Princeton in a slightly bigger cab with 12" speaker and upgraded allen tranny. While they have definitive differences, they do have some similar tones when dialed in right like I mentioned. I plan on doing a muchxs MMB amp as well, and look forward to chatting about it.