20 Tube Watts vs 20 SS Watts

[Joe M]

Sunday morning musing....

I've always read and heard that 20 tube watts sounds much louder than 20 solid state watts. Why is that?? You would think that 20 watts is 20 watts, regardless of what's producing the sound.

Be gentle in your explanation, if you have one, my little brain gets overworked very easily....

[BobbyZ]

Did you see the Watts is Watts thread?

You'd also think 400HP is 400HP. But it aint. In a race the faster car wins.

[eggman]

Howdy,

Don't know, either. I have heard-and experienced firsthand-that some EL84 amps like the AC30 and Dr.Z Carmen Ghia (18 watts) punch above thier weight class in terms of percieved volume, given thier wattage. Let's wait for a real amp guy to settle this..

[jipp]

i think the "real amp" guys did in the Watts is Watts thread.
id read that. ( but im sure/think this is one of them subjects that will never satisfy anyone till they hear what they want to hear. )



http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-centr...tts-watts.html

chris.

[BobbyZ]

I found a real amp guy.

[jipp]

cool video.
chris.

[BiggerJohn]

Did he call the PT the OT?

[BiggerJohn]

Overdriving a capacitor?

Please.

[BiggerJohn]

Man I wouldn't let that guy work on one of my amps. "48 ohms" on a capacitor?

Recommend replacing all the components?

Man what the eff?

[marshman]

I've got no formal training in electrical engineering or audio technology, but it seems to me that the difficulty in comparing 20watt amps lies in the speaker and cabinets. I've never seen (though, to be fair, I don't pay much attention) a decent 20watt SS amp with a proper cabinet and quality speaker, so I don't know how we're making our comaprison.

It also occurs to me that the fact that no one makes a 20 watt SS amp intended to gig with should tell us something.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by BiggerJohn

Did he call the PT the OT?

yea he did I saw that when Bobby posted this before. The guy is a complete hack.

[BiggerJohn]

Originally Posted by jh45gun

yea he did I saw that when Bobby posted this before. The guy is a complete hack.

I would not disagree with your assessment.

[PinewoodRo]

Just pick 'em up. The heavier ones are always louder...

[DonB52]

OK, I am going to say something to this thread. I was trained by the USAF in electronics. When people start talking about watts vs loudness, I cringe. A 20 watt amp, no matter if it is tube or ss, will deliver 20 watts of POWER to the speaker. If you have an 8" speaker, it will not sound as loud as if you have a 15" speaker. It comes down to how much air you can move. Cabinet design can give you a bit more air movement (open back or closed back), but the amp is still delivering 20 watts. The sound pressure is what you "hear", the watts are just the power available to move the air.

[jh45gun]

Originally Posted by DonB52

OK, I am going to say something to this thread. I was trained by the USAF in electronics. When people start talking about watts vs loudness, I cringe. A 20 watt amp, no matter if it is tube or ss, will deliver 20 watts of POWER to the speaker. If you have an 8" speaker, it will not sound as loud as if you have a 15" speaker. It comes down to how much air you can move. Cabinet design can give you a bit more air movement (open back or closed back), but the amp is still delivering 20 watts. The sound pressure is what you "hear", the watts are just the power available to move the air.

True about moving air but even if watts are equal tubes will sound louder for what ever reason I have put 15 watt tube amps and SS amps side by side and the tubes amps sound louder no matter what the ratings say. As I have stated before ratings can be confusing and I think manufactures manipulate them figures.

[jipp]

i had no idea the guy was a hack. i guess the video was posted in jest. man i have a crap load to learn. ( i would of been one of them cats got ripped 300.00 and still aint right take it to the next guy, and he knows his stuff and shakes his head at what the guy did before.. iv read that plenty of times on here.. ) sigh. i still think people will want to hear the answer they want tho, aint that human nature? laughs. just kidding.
chris.

[jipp]

jh45gun: you are right about company's posting miss leading numbers. this happens all the time in the archery world. in archery its feet per second ( was the arrow shot by fingers, or a release, or a shooting machine. so many variables to make people think its faster than what it really is.) i guess its universal.
chris.

[tele_jas]

Here's what I was told a long time ago..... The rating is clean watts, meaning how much the power section puts out before distorting (clipping).

>> A SS amp usually tops out before the power section clips (designed that way), so you get 20wts of pure, clean power.

>> A tube amps power section will start to distort (clip) at 20wts, but you usually have around half of the volume left to go up. From 1/2 up to full, it doesn't increase another 100% but it does get louder and compresses more..... AND distorts (clips) much more, thus giving you real "Power tube distortion". There's usually a good amount of usable clean room (semi-cleans) in the upper range, past the 20wt range that a lot of players love to play in.

When a SS amps power section clips, it doesn't sound so good..... That's why you want all "clean" power. They try to emulate the power tube section, but clean power is clean power in a SS amp. When a tube amps power section clips, it's smoother and (most of the time) pleasing to the ears. This is why a lot of guys like low-watt tube amps.

In the past (my hard rock days), I've played shows with my 100wt Mesa Boogie into a 2x12 cab and have completely drowned out my other guitar players 150wt SS 4x12 (while he's running at full volume).... Both running V30 speakers. Even running my Boogie at 50wts, it was still just as loud. He tried a few different amps in the 150wt range (Line 6 & Tech 21) and could never keep up.

He eventually got a Marshall.

[jh45gun]

What you say is true but take it off the paper the tube amp still sounds louder at clean volumes over the SS amp being at maxed and SS amps will start distorting before they are maxed out. I used to figured after the volume was over 70 Percent it would not be as clean with a SS amp at least the ones I have used and that has been fairly considerable.

He got a Marshall

[Prison Rodeo]

I do wonder if there's a bias (pun intended) in this discussion, toward players that do blues/modern country/rock/etc. When I read "power tube clipping," I hear "sh**ty sounding distortion." The way I play, it's crystal clean or go home. So, if a SS gets louder than an equivalent tube amp before distorting *at all*, then I'm sold on SS.