Mic placement on Vibro Champ

skepticult · May 14th, 2005, 10:51 PM

I tried searching for previous threads with no luck...

I have a fairly decent setup for home recording (especially in relation to my meager skills) but am having trouble getting the sound of my Vibro Champ to translate well to recording.

I think most of my problem is microphone placement. I'm using an SM57->PreSonus TubePre->soundcard line in. My main problem is that my recorded sound is very thin and tinny with very quick note dropoff. It sounds fine coming out of the amp...

With all the possible ways to position the mic, I'm hoping someone can give me some tips to at least start from. If I pull the mic back quite a ways the sound fattens up a bit but the ambient noise and the natural reverb are a bit too much.

I've also considered that maybe I need more volume from the amp (Only at ~4 + boost from OD pedal) but it's not feasible in my apartment. I don't think that's the problem because recording other fairly quiet sounds doesn't seem to present the same issues.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

popthree · May 14th, 2005, 11:59 PM

A 2nd mike may help. one a foot or two in front of the amp, pointed right at it...and another back a distance, to capture the room. a blend of the 2 would give you more choices in searching for a tone you like.

Joe-Bob · May 15th, 2005, 12:23 AM

Well, you didn't tell us where you have it now. A rule of thumb, as a good starting point, is 3/4 out from the middle of the speaker, right up near the grille cloth itself. Try angled in a bit, and 90 degrees to the speaker.
That said, your pedal may be giving you the thin sound also, so try it without the pedal just to get a baseline on the amp sound you want. Write stuff down as you go.

skepticult · May 15th, 2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe-Bob

Well, you didn't tell us where you have it now. A rule of thumb, as a good starting point, is 3/4 out from the middle of the speaker, right up near the grille cloth itself. Try angled in a bit, and 90 degrees to the speaker.
That said, your pedal may be giving you the thin sound also, so try it without the pedal just to get a baseline on the amp sound you want. Write stuff down as you go.

Howdy,

I will give that a try tomorrow when the neighbors are awake. I've tried pulling out both of my pedals without much luck.

I had the mic up on the grill cloth previously, but at the center and the far edge. Maybe I just overshot the sweet spot...

I've had a lot more luck getting the "real" sound to recording with my s/s/h strat-y guitar which is a lot more mid-rangy than my Tele. I have trouble playing it though because I always mash the stupid middle pickup with my pick when I get going. Didn't used to have that problem but I made myself stop playing it for a few months after I got my Tele and got used to the wide open spaces...

If I don't have any luck I'll post some clips of various positions. Might make it easier to get feedback, or help someone out in the future.

Thanks for your help.

skepticult · May 15th, 2005, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popthree

A 2nd mike may help. one a foot or two in front of the amp, pointed right at it...and another back a distance, to capture the room. a blend of the 2 would give you more choices in searching for a tone you like.

That would probably be ideal and it crossed my mind but I can't buy any more stuff for a while. I've only been playing for 2 or 3 years and still consider myself very much a beginner...Partly due to starting late and partly due to having trouble finding other people of my age and level to play with.

Starting as an adult, though means that gear money has never been a problem so I have to live under self imposed gear embargoes...

If I hit Radio Shack tomorrow I might pick up a crappy PC mic. I had one for a while that worked surprisingly well for up close but I ran it over with my chair and got the Shure. Might be a temporary fix. Thanks.

Rick S · May 15th, 2005, 03:30 AM

From your description, it seems that your problem is something other than mic placement at this point, and I'm thinking it may be that the signal from the Tubepre is too hot.

I'm not really familiar with the Tubepre, other than it is a very high gain direct box. IIRC, you have a gain and drive control on these. You should keep the drive at zero, and I would start with the gain also at zero. I think you also have a pad on this, check that it's turned off.

From there, I would set the level slider on your software halfway up and see what you've got. If the signal is weak, turn up the gain on the Tubepre until you have a good strong signal, but not peaking.

Anyway, just my .02 on what you described, without knowing anything about your system.
Good luck!

jjmantele · May 15th, 2005, 11:19 AM

I'm not really experienced with recording (yet) but everything I've read says to place the mic NOT in the dead center and NOT at the outer edge. Most recommend near the center but not on it. Most say close to the cloth. With an 8" speaker, especially if it's stock, it's gonna be thinner than most "normal" sized speakers.

skepticult · May 16th, 2005, 11:33 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I didn't get a chance to try them out over the weekend like I had hoped, but will do so soon.

Rick: I'm pretty sure the TubePre isn't the problem because I just bought it the other day, but maybe I've just had my levels too high the entire time...I'm not sure exactly how or what order to set everything in so I've been winging it and trying to get them as high as possible without clipping. There seems to be a fine line between "too low" and "too high." So I guess you set the guitar / amp volume first, the preamp level second, and the software adjustments last?

maestrovert · May 16th, 2005, 03:46 PM

i have a Princeton that i use to record with when i can get away with turnin' it up a tad, and the sm57 is all but perfect.... but like you noise concerns often dictate i record at night, going direct using a Gnx4 for amp modeling.....

however, i have found a nice mic fairly inexpensively.....MXL990 condenser.... req's Phantom power, is $70 from M-F complete with shock mount and carrying case ....

when the speaker vol is dropped down the 990 gets it where the sm57 loses it....and it's incredible on acoustics and mandolins too

skepticult · May 16th, 2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maestrovert

i have a Princeton that i use to record with when i can get away with turnin' it up a tad, and the sm57 is all but perfect.... but like you noise concerns often dictate i record at night, going direct using a Gnx4 for amp modeling.....

however, i have found a nice mic fairly inexpensively.....MXL990 condenser.... req's Phantom power, is $70 from M-F complete with shock mount and carrying case ....

when the speaker vol is dropped down the 990 gets it where the sm57 loses it....and it's incredible on acoustics and mandolins too

Hmmm, my guitar teacher recommended a few things to try, one of which was using a condenser mic instead of a dynamic one like the 57. Maybe there's something to that...

He also suggested tossing a heavy blanket over the amp and mic (obviously taking care to avoid covering the back and melting everything...) to filter out ambient sound that seeps in when pulling the mic back. I'm thinking that might also allow me to turn up the volume a bit more.

Thanks for the tips. I do use a Boss GT-6 and GuitarRig for modelling but haven't been able to get a clean/semi-clean sound that stands up to the VC. Great for distortion, though. GuitarRig is seriously sweet software.

Daddy Elmis · May 16th, 2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick S

From your description, it seems that your problem is something other than mic placement at this point, and I'm thinking it may be that the signal from the Tubepre is too hot.

I'm not really familiar with the Tubepre, other than it is a very high gain direct box. IIRC, you have a gain and drive control on these. You should keep the drive at zero, and I would start with the gain also at zero. I think you also have a pad on this, check that it's turned off.

From there, I would set the level slider on your software halfway up and see what you've got. If the signal is weak, turn up the gain on the Tubepre until you have a good strong signal, but not peaking.

Anyway, just my .02 on what you described, without knowing anything about your system.
Good luck!

This strikes me as the culprit as well. If the signal hitting the computer is too hot, you could be getting digital distortion -- which is horrible and not musical. Tube preamps are nice, but it's real, real easy to generate too hot a signal to your input.

May 14th, 2005, 10:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
skepticult Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 405	Mic placement on Vibro Champ I tried searching for previous threads with no luck... I have a fairly decent setup for home recording (especially in relation to my meager skills) but am having trouble getting the sound of my Vibro Champ to translate well to recording. I think most of my problem is microphone placement. I'm using an SM57->PreSonus TubePre->soundcard line in. My main problem is that my recorded sound is very thin and tinny with very quick note dropoff. It sounds fine coming out of the amp... With all the possible ways to position the mic, I'm hoping someone can give me some tips to at least start from. If I pull the mic back quite a ways the sound fattens up a bit but the ambient noise and the natural reverb are a bit too much. I've also considered that maybe I need more volume from the amp (Only at ~4 + boost from OD pedal) but it's not feasible in my apartment. I don't think that's the problem because recording other fairly quiet sounds doesn't seem to present the same issues. Anyway, any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

May 14th, 2005, 11:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
popthree Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Tulsa Age: 43 Posts: 2,948 49 Photos	A 2nd mike may help. one a foot or two in front of the amp, pointed right at it...and another back a distance, to capture the room. a blend of the 2 would give you more choices in searching for a tone you like. __________________ "chips are falling....." -Dr. Johnny Fever

May 15th, 2005, 12:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Joe-Bob Friend of Leo's Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Age: 46 Posts: 4,016	Mic placement Well, you didn't tell us where you have it now. A rule of thumb, as a good starting point, is 3/4 out from the middle of the speaker, right up near the grille cloth itself. Try angled in a bit, and 90 degrees to the speaker. That said, your pedal may be giving you the thin sound also, so try it without the pedal just to get a baseline on the amp sound you want. Write stuff down as you go. __________________ "German is the language God uses when He really means business." --FZ

May 15th, 2005, 11:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
jjmantele Tele-Holic Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 851	Mic I'm not really experienced with recording (yet) but everything I've read says to place the mic NOT in the dead center and NOT at the outer edge. Most recommend near the center but not on it. Most say close to the cloth. With an 8" speaker, especially if it's stock, it's gonna be thinner than most "normal" sized speakers. __________________ JJman If it says "Vintage" on it -it isn't.

May 16th, 2005, 03:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
maestrovert Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Branch Mi. Posts: 6,732	different mic ? i have a Princeton that i use to record with when i can get away with turnin' it up a tad, and the sm57 is all but perfect.... but like you noise concerns often dictate i record at night, going direct using a Gnx4 for amp modeling..... however, i have found a nice mic fairly inexpensively.....MXL990 condenser.... req's Phantom power, is $70 from M-F complete with shock mount and carrying case .... when the speaker vol is dropped down the 990 gets it where the sm57 loses it....and it's incredible on acoustics and mandolins too __________________ Sing the Song Bro' Play on Drummer www.godonthe.net

May 15th, 2005, 03:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rick S Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 494	From your description, it seems that your problem is something other than mic placement at this point, and I'm thinking it may be that the signal from the Tubepre is too hot. I'm not really familiar with the Tubepre, other than it is a very high gain direct box. IIRC, you have a gain and drive control on these. You should keep the drive at zero, and I would start with the gain also at zero. I think you also have a pad on this, check that it's turned off. From there, I would set the level slider on your software halfway up and see what you've got. If the signal is weak, turn up the gain on the Tubepre until you have a good strong signal, but not peaking. Anyway, just my .02 on what you described, without knowing anything about your system. Good luck!

May 16th, 2005, 11:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
skepticult Tele-Meister Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 405	Thanks for all the suggestions. I didn't get a chance to try them out over the weekend like I had hoped, but will do so soon. Rick: I'm pretty sure the TubePre isn't the problem because I just bought it the other day, but maybe I've just had my levels too high the entire time...I'm not sure exactly how or what order to set everything in so I've been winging it and trying to get them as high as possible without clipping. There seems to be a fine line between "too low" and "too high." So I guess you set the guitar / amp volume first, the preamp level second, and the software adjustments last?