Inside Fender's Excelsior

[drdos]

Originally Posted by celeste

It is all the accordion players that are making it hard to get. They have been waiting for years for this day

SEIZE THE DAY!

[Billm]

I'm thinking of putting in a matched pair of EH6V6 in to see if that might help to lessen the over the top bright setting. I changed out V1 last night with a Tung Sol 12ax7 which seems to have enriched what was already there. I know that EH tubes can sometimes darken up the sound of an amp a little (maybe not as much as JJ's)so I'm going to give it a try. Your thoughts

Different tubes aren't going to significantly change the amp, although JJ 6V6s make a noticeable improvement in low end because of the larger plates. A "sweeter" preamp, like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS would probably be worth a try.

[drdos]

Originally Posted by Billm

Different tubes aren't going to significantly change the amp, although JJ 6V6s make a noticeable improvement in low end because of the larger plates. A "sweeter" preamp, like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS would probably be worth a try.

haha I have a couple of those from an old Mesa... I'll have to try that. Thanks

[MadJack]

Originally Posted by celeste

It is all the accordion players that are making it hard to get. They have been waiting for years for this day

Rash needs one when they play Closer To The Heart

[Carlsoti]

Hello all. Singing up here to see how this goes. I've been gassing for one of these as soon as I heard about it, and wanted to do some mods to make it "less fizzy" when pushed hard. I've got a thing for 5751 tubes, so that will likely be a "fer sure." With all the extra space, an extra pre-tube and a tone stack, or at least a single tone control seems like it might be worthwhile.

I know just enough about modding to realize that I probably shouldn't mess with one all "willy nilly." The Tube-bias trem is the thing that's halting me.

I had two directions I wanted to go. First, upgraded steel and a pair of 6550As would make this a formidable "Clean" gigging amp, and could even do well with a lap steel plugged in.

The other direction would be the possibility of some yellowjackets and a pair of EL84s. I love me some EL84s. Especially when driven hard with very little pre-amp distortion.

BillM, would yellow jackets and EL84s work in this amp with the Bias-mod trem set-up, or might that cause some problems with tube life and the workings of the tremolo?

[Webfoot]

Louder and cleaner is better for me provided if it does breakup, its smooth and not ratty. And if a low noise floor.... thats great.

Best changes for me would be a switchable tone stacks and related eq. Like having it be able to go from blackface to tweed.

Blackface gives you those pretty cleans and tweed ala bassman lets you use dirt pedals.

[Billm]

I don't think this will ever sound like a blackface amp. Unless you do a wholesale replacement of parts, add a bunch, and copy a blackface circuit.

[celeste]

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a very good candidate for some creative frequency shaping and not a traditional tone stack. This seems like a great amp to break the tone control components up and put them where they do the most good.

To me, treble is best as late in the amplification chain as you can get to control harmonic content. A simple treble bleed in front of the PI, or phase cancelling treble after the PI would do it well.

Bass is best done up front to stop early stages from making things muddy. That could be done by replacing the first stage cathode resistor with a current diode, bypassing it with a small cap to get the treble gain back and paralleling that with a larger cap on a pot to control low frequency gain.

Both pots could be on dual concentric knobs in place of the bright/dark switch.

The existing bright/dark circuit could be reworked to give the traditional mid scoop if desired, or reworked into a very flexible low loss mid control on dual concentric knobs with the volume control.

Just some out of the box thinking for an out of the box Fender.

[Billm]

There are also some very good one-knob tone designs. I'll be having fun with this.

Dual-concentric controls are seductive, but it's generally difficult to find the values you need... or decent knobs. I'd rather have separate controls and mini knobs.

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Billm

There are also some very good one-knob tone designs. I'll be having fun with this.

Dual-concentric controls are seductive, but it's generally difficult to find the values you need... or decent knobs. I'd rather have separate controls and mini knobs.

Oh, I agree, but adding holes to the face plate is pretty much crossing over from a mod to a rebuild.

In my experience, most people that say they want "a tone stack", and we have seen that a lot, want at least 2 and usually 3 knobs, and look down on a one knob no matter how good it is. People can be funny creatures.

[Webfoot]

My love/hate affair with the pro jr is great dirt and useable clean but an annoying hum/hiss.

My love/hate affair with the drri is great clean but bad dirt (no mid knob and tonestack that is overly scooped).

Would the Excelsior have the opportunity to be a gigging amp? As loud as a Princeton Reverb or Blues Junior? Will it have enough useable mids?

Looking forward to hearing about possible changes/mods for the Excelsior.

[tele salivas]

Originally Posted by Webfoot

My love/hate affair with the pro jr is great dirt and useable clean but an annoying hum/hiss.

My love/hate affair with the drri is great clean but bad dirt (no mid knob and tonestack that is overly scooped).

Would the Excelsior have the opportunity to be a gigging amp? As loud as a Princeton Reverb or Blues Junior? Will it have enough useable mids?

Looking forward to hearing about possible changes/mods for the Excelsior.

I'm finding it to have more clean headroom than the Princeton RI. On the dark setting, there is lots of midrange, especially in the Accordian channel, where you get some of that honk. The Guitar channel has the most volume. This thing is giggable. Cranked all the way, the Excelsior has very little noise, like near nothing, and the sound is real smooth, with a very pleasing fuzz vibe to the dirt, which is in abundance. I had early Sabbath and Grand Funk on a tele with the guitar tone knob down to about 2 or three and the guitar volume at about 8, if that gives you a barometer. It gets really loud before you get to that point, however, on single coils. With humbuckers you get there much much quicker, so you can strategize a bit for a gig having those associations.
This amp reminds me of a hybrid between a Supro and an old Ampeg as it gets turned up, and while clean, has a lot of Fender in there but as pointed out, not a blackface clean.

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Carlsoti

Hello all. Singing up here to see how this goes. I've been gassing for one of these as soon as I heard about it, and wanted to do some mods to make it "less fizzy" when pushed hard. I've got a thing for 5751 tubes, so that will likely be a "fer sure." With all the extra space, an extra pre-tube and a tone stack, or at least a single tone control seems like it might be worthwhile.

I know just enough about modding to realize that I probably shouldn't mess with one all "willy nilly." The Tube-bias trem is the thing that's halting me.

I had two directions I wanted to go. First, upgraded steel and a pair of 6550As would make this a formidable "Clean" gigging amp, and could even do well with a lap steel plugged in.

The other direction would be the possibility of some yellowjackets and a pair of EL84s. I love me some EL84s. Especially when driven hard with very little pre-amp distortion.

BillM, would yellow jackets and EL84s work in this amp with the Bias-mod trem set-up, or might that cause some problems with tube life and the workings of the tremolo?

Hey Carl, I can not see the 6550 option being financially viable. By the time you do that, all that is left is the cab and the upper chassis. You have to replace the 3 most expensive electric pieces, the PT, OT and speaker. Wanting tone controls means more holes in the chassis and a new face plate.

It just strikes me that it is to far away from what you want, to be a good starting place.

[Whoa Tele]

Hi Everybody
I had a couple of quick questions as I just received my Excelsior. Can the power tubes be changed without a rebias and has anyone noticed a tinny sounding buzz/rattle as you increase volume? Thanks

[celeste]

Originally Posted by Whoa Tele

Hi Everybody
I had a couple of quick questions as I just received my Excelsior. Can the power tubes be changed without a rebias and has anyone noticed a tinny sounding buzz/rattle as you increase volume? Thanks

Yes, you can change the power tubes without rebiasing. It is a "cathode biased" design. If the tubes draw more current, there is a larger voltage drop across the cathode resistor, which increases the bias and reduces the current through the tube. It does it all for you.

[Whoa Tele]

Thank You

[Billm]

The other direction would be the possibility of some yellowjackets and a pair of EL84s. I love me some EL84s. Especially when driven hard with very little pre-amp distortion.

If you use the YJUNI version of the Yellow Jacket, it uses the amp's internal cathode biasing circuitry. That's what I would recommend.

[eastsidecincy]

I guess I will have to buy an accordion and take lessions too...LOL : )

[Twangmeister]

SEIZE THE DAY!

Shouldn't that be "Squeeze the day?"

[benderb9]

I just got delivery on Wednesday of an Excelsior from Sweetwater and have been playing it a lot since then...the tubes that came with it seem to have been, well, questionable as there was a LOT of noise and a serious rattle when leaning into the strings at any volume above 10 o'clock. That 15" speaker is a serious reason to do just that, argh. Having read about tightening up screws ect because of rattles I did that without much success. I had on hand a new set of JJ power tubes and 2 Tung Sol 12AX7's and a few other 12A*7 family tubes but I was hoping not to use them. Well they went in this morning and what a world of difference. Having swapped them around amongst the 12AX7's, AT7's,AU7's and an ECC802 S...the Tung Sol's won out. The JJ6V6 S power tubes and those Tung Sols are graveyard silent, the rattles and rasps have vanished and the tremolo pulses are seriously cool. It makes me wonder why Fender with their weight as a manufacturer can't put better tubes in. I think this is really a great amp, that 15" speaker has a punch to it that can't be denied. The tonal range is really good considering you voice it with a cut switch and the input jack selection...talk about your tone being in your hands, this amp proves the point. The volume and SPL (sound pressure level) is really sweet in a 32 lb package it is definately good enough to gig with. I am REALLY liking it. Just as an aside I put that ECC802 S in V1 and a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V2, clean through out the volume range, deep tremolo with a VERY slight loss of volume but seemingly no loss of SPL it bacame a sort of HiFi guitar amp, I'm sure I'll play around more with the possibilities but for now it's staying with the 2-12AX7's in it. What a GREAT amp all in all.