Tone: Amp vs Guitar vs Technique?

[Tonemonkey]

Now I have my Guitar(s) and my amps, I can enjoy refining my technique - my underlying tone is in place.

[ludashoeless]

technique. although a distortion pedal would change the sound more if that's what you mean

[Jakedog]

Originally Posted by sax4blues

You and I agree here.



Would I guess from this that you have just one amp and your ultimate tone?

I can sound like me through any of my amps, even though they are different. Same with my guitars. I prefer some gear over other stuff, but the people I play with and for can't really tell the difference. I always sound like me no matter what I do. I can't get away from it. Not that I'd want to. I like how I sound. Even if the EQ curve changes a little from rig to rig, I still sound like me.

I think some of us (probably me included) are beating our heads against the wall on this one. To some people sound is tone, and tone is sound. I don't think they are the same thing. If amps and guitars made the tone, we'd all sound the same when we used the same ones. Amps can make a sound, as can guitars, they can't make tone. It takes a player to do that IMO. That is the very reason, why six deifferent players will all sound different if they take turns on the same guitar and amp, without changing settings. How many people have we all heard plug in a strat, a TS, and a super reverb and sound like dog poop? It happens everywhere there's a jam. Never happened to SRV.

[gitold]

My tone is part and parcel to my technique. As soon as I pick up a guitar and play through an amp I'm trying to find a sound that works for me. Thats why I always sound like me no matter what i play.

[sax4blues]

Originally Posted by Jakedog

I think some of us (probably me included) are beating our heads against the wall on this one. To some people sound is tone, and tone is sound. I don't think they are the same thing.... Amps can make a sound, as can guitars, they can't make tone.

Ok, I'll go with this. Tone is the full sum of all the parts, and several people feel the players technique is the major factor in creating the tone.

But I don't want to believe technique is the only factor or that technique can stand alone. All the technique in the world without the rest of the chain will not produce tone, good, bad, or ugly.

I will also say my tone has greatly improved over the years as my technique has improved. The way I can fret a note or chord, the way I pick or strum, the way I can hammer on / pull off, my bends and vibrato. All of that makes my playing much more pleasing to listen too, more than any guitar/pedal/amp.

Even still, I keep gassing for a Vox,.... Cause I like the sound they make.

[Larry F]

In the 60s and 70s, I don't remember tone being talked about at all. It was some sort unspoken aspect about music making that people didn't talk about. Why is it that we find tons of examples of people talking about it on internet forums?

I have to ask: is it more of a hobbyist thing than something that gigging pros talk about? I realize that this could seem like a slam against the abilities of different posters, but I nonetheless feel the question should be asked.

[Atlas Stands]

Originally Posted by Tele60x

Amp=Tone
Guitar= Flavor
Technique=Character

+1+1

[Atlas Stands]

Originally Posted by Larry F

In the 60s and 70s, I don't remember tone being talked about at all. It was some sort unspoken aspect about music making that people didn't talk about. Why is it that we find tons of examples of people talking about it on internet forums?

I have to ask: is it more of a hobbyist thing than something that gigging pros talk about? I realize that this could seem like a slam against the abilities of different posters, but I nonetheless feel the question should be asked.

Just my opinion here, but back then there were not very many non-tube amps, thus there were fewer tones that fell into any realm of tonal mediocrity. Now that we have transistors and modeling amps and computer chips in the running we find there is more of a discourse regarding available flavors of amp tones.

[Durtdog]

I guess we have the "signature tone" discussion about every 3 days or so here.

Yes, you always sound like yourself, but you won't always have the same tone. It just ain't the same thing.

[AlabamaOutlaw]

Tech IMHO...also knowing how to dial in your tone stack and volume & tone pot for each pickup position. That's the free stuff...

Next up, spend you're cash on speakers....Webers to be exact.

[Larry F]

Originally Posted by Atlas Stands

Just my opinion here, but back then there were not very many non-tube amps, thus there were fewer tones that fell into any realm of tonal mediocrity. Now that we have transistors and modeling amps and computer chips in the running we find there is more of a discourse regarding available flavors of amp tones.

This is an important point. The beginners, like me, saw that the pros used Fenders amps more than any other, at least in the states. After that came Marshalls, and maybe Vox. However, the only Vox to cross my path then was the super beatle, and that was not very well regarded. Sunn amps didn't seem to catch on for the lower end musicians. They were used more by the big name, big arena bands.

[Stubee]

I know some very good pros that certainly seek great tone via amp fiddling & such...but they play more than post on the web about it.

A decent amp & guitar are good to have but if ya don't see how big an element the player & technique is then you've never had a real pro take your setup right from yer hands & turn it into a whole new and snarling animal.

[IronFeliks]

Originally Posted by rp1138

Your technique is the meat of your sound. Your gear is the seasoning.

In this analogy, Strat = ketchup, Tele = mustard, Les Paul = mayo, Gretsch = BBQ sauce.

Dang that sucks, I can't stand mustard...

[Ptrallan01]

Interesting. For 10 years I played every sunday in a small church (22*40 feet). I played a tele primarily but also a gretsch, washburn(335 style and electric acoustic) prs se II, another tele, a squire, 2 versions of artcore af series, a hagstrom hollowbody and a series 10 LP style.

For amps I used a Musicman RD 50, a Peavey PA, peavey transtube 258, bassman ri ltd, dean markley cd20, cyberdeluxe and toward the end because of volume issues a wah pedal or digitech multi effects pedal direct to the sound board.

I used about every combination of these and a few other guitars and amps not mentioned. In each case I adjusted them to sound like I wanted them to sound. I rolled back the treble, pushed up the mids and bass. It all sounded pretty much the same no matter what I used. The only time it sounded different and truly better was my korean tele and the dean markley. There was a distinct tone that fit my playing in a unique way with that combination and only that one. I still sounded the same but the combination of me and those two components worked in a way that the others didn't. That was where the tonal sweet spot is for me. There are combinations that work for an individual but it starts with knowing who you are and what you are trying to achieve and admitting it when you've found it. My technique was waiting for the right combination of tools to be appropriately expressed.

The instrument involved matters greatly. When I play a piano, I play the same songs as the guitar but I approach them completely differently. When I play an Eastman Hollowbody I approach that different from a tele, my AF105 with flatwounds is different still and I get different sounds from each of them but my style is still my style. That's a bit different from the sound/tone discussion.

[colorado]

Could be wrong, but it seems like mixing apples and oranges. My own feeling is that there is a certain level of equipment you need to not sound like c**p. But that stuff is readily available at Guitar Center. You can get a really good amp and guitar for ~$6-800 ea + a couple of hundred for some killer pedals. Give someone $2k and expect change back and they will have a killer rig.

If they can't sound good with that level of equipment - unmodded straight from the store...I don't know. I do know, if you hand that rig to any good guitarist and they will sound good through it and will very likely sound like themselves.

Of course if you are comparing a 15 watt "package" amp to a Deluxe Reverb you will say equipment matters. But once you start talking Deluxe Reverb level amps, yeah I'm sure a Dumble sounds cool, but I'd happily listen to Clapton jamming on an off-the-shelf DR all night long cause I KNOW he would sound great.

Like anything, chasing that last 1% costs a lot of money. I think in most cases it is hard to hear that last 1%. Seems like we are lucky there is so much CHEAP incredible sounding gear available nowadays.

[Gnobuddy]

I think the question being asked here is a bit like this one: which part of your foot do you use to run, the heel, the arch, or the ball?

Similarly with the player -> guitar -> amp chain. A really bad guitarist (or a raw beginner) will make any guitar and any amp sound bad. At the same time not even the worlds greatest guitarists can extract good tone from, say, the Squier SP-10 amp (the one that comes in the $150 guitar+amp all-in-one beginner pack). Similarly, give the best guitarist you can find a guitar with the nut that's mis-positioned by 30 thousandths of an inch and the bridge intonation totally messed up, and see if he can get a good sound out of it - every chord will sound nasty because that guitar can never be in tune with itself.

So all three matter for good tone. Technique, guitar, amp. If there's a debate, it maybe it should be about which of these matter most to you.

For me, given that my technique is what it is, good or bad, it's a constant in the equation. What remains is guitar and amp. And if we're talking a solid-body electric guitar, I'd rather have a mediocre guitar and a great amp. I know I can get better tone with that combination rather than a great guitar and horrible amp.

-Gnobuddy

[gtrpkr]

It is all in the hands. How a person phrases,attacks the strings and just pure ability is what technique is all about. The previous, affects the tone or "sound" of a player. The guitar and amp just puts out that sound that the player produces.

[Tonemonkey]

Originally Posted by gtrpkr

The guitar and amp just puts out that sound that the player produces.

Yeh, in such a way that it sounds like crep and grates your eardrums or sounds cool.

[Donelson]

A good player needs a quality instrument, to avoid hassling with the flaws in the cheap or otherwise crappy ones. That being said, the player's "sound" is derived from their skills, personality, talent, etc. True for all instruments and eras, IMO.

Just two examples, from famous guitarists I heard live: Danny Gatton, on a Les Paul, and a Tele, many years apart. Sounded THE SAME. Instantly recognizable, within just a few notes. And, John McLaughlin, on a weird acoustic with Shakti, and many years later, on a 335. SAME. The sound of every player comes out & is clear to the listener "with ears" no matter what "gear" is involved.

It is fun to own different axes, amps, etc. No question. But, your true sound really has little to do with that stuff.

[greggorypeccary]

Originally Posted by Larry F

In the 60s and 70s, I don't remember tone being talked about at all. It was some sort unspoken aspect about music making that people didn't talk about. Why is it that we find tons of examples of people talking about it on internet forums?

I have to ask: is it more of a hobbyist thing than something that gigging pros talk about? I realize that this could seem like a slam against the abilities of different posters, but I nonetheless feel the question should be asked.

To some degree, yes. I've been to a couple of gatherings of forumites and those who spend the most time talking about gear and tone (and often have the biggest collections of expensive boutique gear) can't really play. Definitely hobby players.

I started playing in 30 years ago, we didn't discuss tone in the 80's & 90's either. (we also didn't make a big deal about "tube amps" either, they were simply amps...)

Back in the day we really only discussed playing with other players we knew, in person. And we'd just plug in and play, not waste our time talking about "tone". Any discussion pretty much focused on how to play that song or that riff.

I think it simply boils down to the fact that on forums like this, we need something to talk about.