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Old March 15th, 2012, 04:01 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Here is the Silverface Twin Reverb Ultralinear Schematic (135W) if anyone needs it.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singin' Dave View Post
Topscore, Take a breath and rest easy. You scored a GREAT amp there! And you got it for a very nice price. It will only go up in value, logo or no logo. You can buy a repro logo for ~$20 or go with an original for $50 via eBay or a vintage dealer. Either way, that is one sweet amp for a very good price.

As a bit of side info, people call late 67/ early '68 fender amps "blackline" amps due to the small black lines surrounding the controls on the face plate. For most of us, that is a dead giveaway that the amp has an original blackface circuit, so that is a NICE little bonus in a '68 amp. Blackline or not, logo or not, that is one fine twin. You did VERY well. Leave the poor seller alone :)
Singin' Dave (Great name by the way)!
Do you sing and play lead guitar for the Blasters? Foghat? Savoy Brown? hahaha

Thanks for the information. I'll think about the logo and seller, as I've said nothing, yet. But, as silly it is of me
not to notice, it is like missing the hood ornament on your Jaguar We shall see. I have some bids out.

Questions for you, Singin' Dave, if you will please:
Do you know that there are Silverface amps from apparently
late 1967 and early 1968 that DO NOT have the Drip Edge grill trim?

I have posted a picture below of my 1968 Fender Dual Showman Reverb TFL5000D amp head.
SN#13971 makes it the 71st Showman Reverb made, and it has a February 1968 birthday.
Posted below are a couple of pictures.

Is it the NON-Drip-Edge grill trim Silverface 1968's that have these black lines you discussed?

Or, do all 1968's have the blackline faceplates? When did Fender discontinue the blackline faceplates?

Is it a dead giveaway that the blackline faceplates have the AB763 Blackface circuitry?
And that any Sliverface without the blacklines will need the Blackface modifications to be "Blackfaced"?

Is it true that the AB763 circuitry designed for non-reverb Showman amp heads
was also used for the 1967/1968 Showman REVERB amp heads?

Also, what do you know about the earlier pre-Drip Edge Silverface amps
(Showmans and any other Fender model if they exist? Thank you. Toppscore
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Old March 16th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #63 (permalink)
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I sent you a PM. I'm in Capitola and have a SF 1973 Twin that has been bf'ed.

Dan
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Old March 16th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppscore View Post
Thanks, Green Latern. Good hair
Um, thank you. I had to one-up the drummer of my band : p



Quote:
So, you got the two amps up to a dime 10??
What speakers did you use for the test? Toppscore [/B]
The Twin Reverb uses Jensen C12n's, and the Jazz Chorus uses Roland Heavy Duty Transducers.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dmarcus30 View Post
I sent you a PM. I'm in Capitola and have a SF 1973 Twin that has been bf'ed. Dan
So, got your message. Thank you.
What style of music do you play???
Toppscore
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Old March 16th, 2012, 02:30 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Green Lantern View Post
The Twin Reverb uses Jensen C12n's, and the Jazz Chorus uses Roland Heavy Duty Transducers.
The Fender Jazz Chorus ~ isn't that Fender's
solid state twin reverb with some amp modeling?

How do you like it? What year is yours? Would you buy another one?
Toppscore
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:27 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Do you know that there are Silverface amps from apparently
late 1967 and early 1968 that DO NOT have the Drip Edge grill trim?

All Silverface Twin Reverbs of this period were factory equipped with a Drip-edge grill.

Is it the NON-Drip-Edge grill trim Silverface 1968's that have these black lines you discussed?

The Silverface Black-line faceplace was a design detail on early drip-edge Twin Reverbs.

[April 67] Silverface Twin Reverb Introduced with: Drip-edge Grill + Silverface Blackline Faceplate
[May 1968] Blackline faceplate changed to standard Silverface faceplate / Drip-edge grill retained
[1970] Beginning in January 1970 the drip-edge grill is changed to a plain Silverface grill


Or, do all 1968's have the blackline faceplates? When did Fender discontinue the blackline faceplates?

The Silverface Blackline faceplate was discontinued in May 1968, which was the same month the Twin Reverb was transitioned to AC568 circuit from AB763 100W circuit. From May 1968 the Silverface Twin Reverb had a standard Silverface faceplate. The drip-edge grill treatment continued until end of 1969.

Sometime during year 1980 Fender with the Twin Reverb went to the "Black-look," where the amps were equipped with black faceplates & silver grill cloth. This continued through 1981, which was the final year of SFTR production.


Is it a dead giveaway that the blackline faceplates have the AB763 Blackface circuitry?

Yes, presence of a Blackline faceplate is a clear indicator that the Silverface Twin Reverb amp should contain a AB763 circuit. The Black-line faceplate and AB763 Silverface circuit were parallel features. This combination is exactly the same as the last Blackface Twin Reverb except for the design feature combination of: Silverface Black-line faceplate, grill cloth and drip-edge.

If buyers place a "premium value" on Blackface AB763 Twin Reverb, they should place the same value on Silverface AB763 Black-line / Drip-edge Twin Reverb. The are the same except for minor cosmetic differences.


Any Sliverface without the blacklines will need the Blackface modifications to be "Blackfaced"?

All Silverface Twin Reverbs with exception of Silverface Black-lines (which have AB763 circuit) would have to be "Blackfaced" at the circuit level to match Black-face circuit.

These are Silverface Twin Reverb amps with these circuits:

May 1968 - Transitioned to AC568 circuit from AB763 circuit and output power was now "advertised" as 100 watts (controversial topic)
Circuit ran from May 1968 through late 1972
Late 1972 - Master Volume control without "pull boost" circuit introduced. This circuit version had a very short run.
This circuit just a very short period prior to Nov 1972
Nov 1972 - Push-pull (In = Pure Clean Sound / Out = Power Tube Boost) added to Master Volume (Circuit: Revision F - Drawing 045377)
Circuit used from Nov 1972 through 1977
1977 - Ultra-linear output transformer is introduced and output power is advertised at 135W

Is it true that the AB763 circuitry designed for non-reverb Showman amp heads was also used for the 1967/1968 Showman REVERB amp heads?

The Silverface Twin Reverb shared circuit designs with the following amplifiers for all circuit versions (including:AB763)
  • Vibrosonic Reverb Export
  • Vibrosonic
  • Super Six Reverb Export
  • Super Six Reverb
  • Quad Reverb Export
  • Quad Reverb
  • Dual Showman Reverb Export
  • Dual Showman Reverb
  • Twin Reverb Export
  • Twin Reverb

Also, what do you know about the earlier pre-Drip Edge Silverface amps
(Showmans and any other Fender model if they exist?


There are NO pre-Drip-edge / pre-Black-line Silverface as these were design features at the Silverface product line introduction.

Thank you. Toppscore
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:59 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Stephanin. What do you think about my 1968 Dual Fender Showman
above without the word "Dual" and without apparent drip edge trim?
Something wrong?
71st Showman Reverb made?
I will take it out and shoot some photos tonight.
What would I look for or pictures that you'd want
to verify the cabinet & chassis are a match?
I am willing to double check. Toppscore

Last edited by Toppscore; March 16th, 2012 at 07:41 AM.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppscore View Post
The Fender Jazz Chorus ~ isn't that Fender's
solid state twin reverb with some amp modeling?

How do you like it? What year is yours? Would you buy another one?
Toppscore
Actually, Fender has nothing to do with the Jazz Chorus. It's made by a company called Roland. Roland is very well known for their keyboard and synthesizer equipment, as well as loads of other music equipment. The Jazz Chorus was somewhat of a breakthrough in guitar amplification, and as such has become a very classic amplifier. It features on-board stereo chorus between the two twelve inch speakers. Many people will say it "has the best chorus ever," but I'm not going to make such a claim. I will say that it is very, very good.

The JC-120 doesn't have anything to do with the Twin Reverb, other than being a combo amp with a 2x12 configuration, and having a lot of clean headroom. They're two totally unrelated amps, although they are often pitted against each other and compared by musicians.

Yes, JC-120's are solid state amplifiers. Some don't like that, but I do not view it as a detriment at all, because they're quality, high end amplifiers. They're very neutral sounding, although they have a quality to them that I liken to compressors. A sort of percussive snap and pop to the sound. They do not have as much bass response as Twin Reverbs, but they are more even sounding all around. There is reverb. It's not bad at all, but it's not jaw dropping. A Fender blackface or silverface has much better reverb.

They are physically larger than Twin Reverbs, though not as heavy. I know this well, as I moved both of them yesterday afternoon, in and out of my car. As the name suggests, they make good jazz amplifiers, as they have an extremely clean and neutral sound that lets the guitar's tone and the player's nuances do almost all of the speaking. JC-120's would fit just about anything, though, with the help of pedals. I really can't think of a better amplifier to use as a pedal platform.

I think they're great amps. If someone who was after a loud and clean amp, who didn't want to worry about tubes, asked for my recommendation, Roland JC-120 would be the first thing to pop out of my mouth. You could also comfortably amplify other things out of them, like vocals or keys. For those purposes, I would prefer them over Fender Twin Reverbs. This, by no means, makes them bad guitar amps, though. Oh, also, they sound great at any volume. There is no "push the tubes to make the amp come alive," because there are no tubes. You'll get nice sounds at any level. You won't be missing anything at lower volumes.

Oh, there is no digital modeling in these amplifiers. They're very simple and straightforward. My Jazz Chorus is probably about a 1983. I say this based on certain research I've done. It's hard to tell exactly, because Roland kept extremely crappy records back then. Even they wouldn't be exactly sure what year mine is.

If my JC-120 was somehow destroyed, I'm very confident I'd pick up another one.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:39 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Hi, Green Latern!
My mistake, it was the Fender Chorus Amp line-up of several
different Fender "Chorus" amp models that I investigated
Lots of cool stuff on that one, also, and from the 1990s.

Good to know about the Roland with the heavy duty Atomic Bomb speakers

Personally, I believe the Chorus solid state amps can make for a
great substitution for tube amps, IMHO, from what I have experienced

Take care and thank you for your sharing. Toppscore
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Old March 16th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Topscore. Stephen covered most of it but one observation to his post:


- I agree that ALL SF fenders have drip edge from late '67 through mid/late '69. I believe drip edge was dropped closer to June or July maybe August of '69. I've seen late '69 SF's with no drip edge and own a '69 Vibrochamp with no drip edge.

- the "blackline" was on ALL SF fenders for about a year - mid'late '67 to may/mid 68. Here is my old '68 champ with blackline (note logo is from mid 70's):



and my late '67 Bassman with blackline




and my '69 VC:



Good on you for pulling as much of the Fender SF amp history as you can out of this thread! You're getting detail in one thread that took some of us a LONG time to piece together.

As you can see above, modifications and changes to cosmetics, circuits and more were common place throughout Fenders history, with the SF no exception. It is difficult to impossible to validate exact dates when changes were made - Leo Fender (and CBS behind him) were notorius for using every part they had on hand - old stock, new stock etc. Many parts were stuck at bottom of bins for months even years, so its not uncommon to have a pot or transformer in an amp that predates other part codes by two years. Same for tube charts glued into cabs. Very common to have wrong circuits listed on a tube chart vs. what amp actually is. Only way to validate is pull the chassis and check the circuit.

Over the years as the vintage market has become so large, guys have pieced together history and general, almost to the month, timelines on circuit, cabinet, cosmetic etc. modifications, but its no exact science. One must really examine codes from all the parts that went into amps - transformer, speaker, pot even capacitor codes are all used to date Fender amps beyond the serial numbers stamped on their chassis. People basically go with the LATEST code they find and assume their amp was finally finished off production line a month or two after that.

As for your '68 DSR, I'm betting it may have had a different grill put on at some point or isn't a '68....
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Old March 16th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toppscore
Stephanin. What do you think about my 1968 Dual Fender Showman
above without the word "Dual" and without apparent drip edge trim?

Something wrong?

71st Showman Reverb made?

I will take it out and shoot some photos tonight.
What would I look for or pictures that you'd want
to verify the cabinet & chassis are a match?
I am willing to double check. Toppscore
Yes post your pictures of your Dual Showman when you can and we can all go through a dating exercise with the good people here on TDPRI. The usual "close-up views:
  • Chassis ID number
  • Power transformer numbers
  • Output transformer numbers
  • Reverb transformer (if there is one)
  • Power tubes (bases and bottle numbers)
  • Preamp tubes (bases and bottle numbers)
  • Faceplate close-ups (Left - Middle - Right)
  • Front view
  • Rear view (panel on and off)
  • Circuit shot (Left - Right)
  • Tube Chart

Speaker Cab
  • Full shot of showing all speakers
  • Close-up full view one speaker
  • Close-up ID marks for dating and model ID
  • Any tags inside the cabinet
  • Dimensions (since there were a few models over the years)

At the bottom is the Fender 1968 Price List showing the Showman amplifier product line. Also prices adjusted to 2012 dollars.

The TFL5000D under the Showman name on on your amplifier faceplace was an ID that indicated whether that amp was a Domestic model or Export model. The D in TFL5000D shows that amp is a USA model. Fender used this market ID between 1968 and 1973.

Below are Showman and Dual Showman Chassis Serial Number "Reservations" for Brownface through Silverface years. Note what most people see on the Internet has some gross errors. The 1st issue is the had a number overlap of one digit between each year. They started and ended the year O at end of number when each year actually closed with 9. This created a double allocation. Also in most public data lots of typing errors. I am trying to slowly verify this with Fender company records.

Unfortunately the range of Chassis Serial Number reservations slots for your "Allocated" number is a rare range where there is some contention on the starting sequence. Mainly because it starts a new sequence without starting at One and alternatively doesn't attach to a number sequence of "cousin" amps that share the same circuit model. I will try and work this out if possible through alternate records. Hopefully that amp has a good readable Tube Chart and the Visual ID process will give you much more production info anyway.

Silverface Dual Showman Reverb with the 100W circuit did have "Dual" in the name on the faceplate. I will have to check earlier years.

I will lookup the drip-edge and faceplate details for that amp. Fender didn't change fine design details across all the amp models. The introduction and drop dates of drip-edge and black-line are model specific but generally close to each other. Since they are such fine details records on hard to locate. I will get back to you on Showman / Showman Dual drip-edge and black-line separately.

The funniest ID marker yet I have seen @ TDPRI was whether jewel pilot light special washer was present or not. Apparently on one Fender model the faceplate pilot light hole was drilled out too big so Fender one year came up with a wider "cupped" washer to hold the light. Silly but used as a visual marker to date a particular model and year of amp. This just goes to show you our fine TDPRI members are not likely to miss much.

Brownface / Blonde Showman with 6G14 and 6G14-A Circuits
00001 to 00349......1960
00350 to 00799......1961
00800 to 01499......1962
01500 to 01799......1963

Blackface Showman (Non-reverb) with AA763 and AB763 Circuits
A00100 to A01399......1963 <-- New Chassis serial number allocation sequence.
A00001 to A00099 not validated in Fender company records.
A01400 to A01699......1964
A01700 to A04299......1965
A04300 to A07799......1966
A07800 to A11999......1967

Silverface Showman (Non-reverb) with AB763 Circuit
A12000 to A12499......1967
A12500 to A14999......1968

Silverface Dual Showman (non-Reverb) with AB763 and AC568 Circuits
A12000 to A12499......1967
A12500 to A14999......1968

Dual Showman Geographic Market ID 1968 – 1973 (Listed under Showman Brand on Faceplate)

TFL5000D = Domestic Fender Dual Showman Reverb
TFL5000X = Export Fender Dual Showman Reverb

Silverface Dual Showman Reverb with AA768, AA769 and AA270 Circuits
A13900 to A16500 ......1968 Issue with starting number of 1968 Chassis Serial Reservation Numbers

SN#13971 makes it the 71st Showman Reverb made, and it has a February 1968 birthday. <-- Toppscore's Dual Showman Reverb

(A15500 to A16499......1968) Expected sequence not verified with Fender company records
A16500 to A22399......1969
A22400 to A25599......1970
A25600 to A36999......1971
A37000 to A50499......1972
A50500 to A67999......1973
A68000 to A80999......1974
A81000 to A99999......1975

Fender 1968 Price List – Showman Amplifiers Product Line

1968 List Price.....................2012 Dollars (Inflation Adjusted to 2012 Value)
Dual Showman w/Reverb & Vibrato – Bare Head
$530.................................. $3,467.28

Dual Showman (Non-reverb) – Bare Head
$480.................................. $3,140.18.

Showman (Non-reverb) – Bare Head
$440.................................. $2,878.50

Dual Showman Amp w/Reverb, Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D130F – 15”
$1000................................. $6,542.04

Showman Amp w/Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D130F – 15”
$690................................... $4,514.01

Showman Amp w/Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D140F – 15”
$708...................................$4,631.76

Dual Showman Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D140F – 15”
$500....................................$3,271.02

Dual Showman Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D130F – 15”
$470...................................$3,074.76

Showman Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D140F – 15”
$365.................................$2,387.84

Showman Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D130F – 15”
$350.................................$2,289.71

Showman Solid-State Amps

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-1000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 4 x 12” Heavy Duty Speakers

$1495.................................$9,780.35

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-2000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 8 x 10” Heavy Duty Speakers

$1695...................................$11,088.76

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-1000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 4 x JBL D120F – 12”

$1995..................................$13,051.37

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-2000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 8 x JBL D110F – 10”

$2395................................$15,668.19

The US Inflation Calculator uses the latest US government CPI data released on March 16, 2012. The next data update from the US government occurs on April 13, 2012 and will include March inflation numbers.

Last edited by StephaninMelb; March 16th, 2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Fender 1968 Price List Amplifier Section

Here is another copy of the Fender 1968 Price List Amplifier Section. Hopefully this one is more legible...

Right Click and save it to view larger on your computer.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StephaninMelb View Post
Ampware is not a good place to download Fender schematics. The main issue is they haven't in all instances applied the right schematics each amp model. If a person sequentially goes through the schematics attributed to a particular model there are some gross errors.

The other matter that needs to be considered is Fender engineering department methodology for circuit development and maintenance. The best way to work with Fender schematics is at a "drawing number" level. A drawing number relates to one or more models of Fender amps.

For example Fender engineering drawing number: 045377 applies to the Twin Reverb. The drawing then goes through Engineering Change Orders (ECO), which are applied to drawing sequential drawing Revisions A, then B, so on. A revision could contain one or more ECOs.

These ECOs applied to field fixes for amps already released, new circuit features and circuit changes. A drawing revision level was frozen after managment sign-off. Associated with drawings were circuit releases. For example Silverface Twin Reverb circuit AA769. This was spawned from Drawing 0045377 Revision D. The Master Volume schematic w/o pull-boost is Drawing 0045377 Revision E and the pull-boost was added in Revision F. You correctly identified that the Master Volume without pull-boost was a very short lived circuit.

The Silverface Twin Reverb with Master Volume and Pull-boost was strangely issued as a CBS engineering drawing: 010182 Rev. F. I wouldn't be surprised if this cross references with Fender Drawing 0045377 Rev. F.

Drawing No: 01182 Rev F applied to:
  • Vibrosonic Reverb Export
  • Vibrosonic
  • Super Six Reverb Export
  • Super Six Reverb
  • Quad Reverb Export
  • Quad Reverb
  • Dual Showman Reverb Export
  • Dual Showman Reverb
  • Twin Reverb Export
  • Twin Reverb

(1) Silverface 100W with MV, Pull-boost, Reverb & Tremolo
Right Click on the drawing below to save the Fender Silverface 100W Master Volume circuit with Pull-Boost, Reverb & Tremolo

(2) Silverface 100W with MV, w/o Pull-boost, Reverb & Tremolo

the TR schematic you posted is the same one fender sent me. I can tell by the 3 ring binder holes (Big black dots on the side). The guy said that one was popular for them to send folks because it's a hard one to find. One of the popular amp techs in Atlanta said he had to do the same when he had one come into his shop.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 04:03 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singin' Dave View Post
Topscore. Stephen covered most of it but one observation to his post:
- I agree that ALL SF fenders have drip edge from late '67 through mid/late '69. I believe drip edge was dropped closer to June or July maybe August of '69. I've seen late '69 SF's with no drip edge and own a '69 Vibrochamp with no drip edge.
- the "blackline" was on ALL SF fenders for about a year - mid'late '67 to may/mid 68.

As you can see above, modifications and changes to cosmetics, circuits and more were common place throughout Fenders history, with the SF no exception. It is difficult to impossible to validate exact dates when changes were made - Leo Fender (and CBS behind him) were notorius for using every part they had on hand - old stock, new stock etc. Many parts were stuck at bottom of bins for months even years, so its not uncommon to have a pot or transformer in an amp that predates other part codes by two years. Same for tube charts glued into cabs. Very common to have wrong circuits listed on a tube chart vs. what amp actually is. Only way to validate is pull the chassis and check the circuit.

Over the years as the vintage market has become so large, guys have pieced together history and general, almost to the month, timelines on circuit, cabinet, cosmetic etc. modifications, but its no exact science. One must really examine codes from all the parts that went into amps - transformer, speaker, pot even capacitor codes are all used to date Fender amps beyond the serial numbers stamped on their chassis. People basically go with the LATEST code they find and assume their amp was finally finished off production line a month or two after that.

As for your '68 DSR, I'm betting it may have had a different grill put on at some point or isn't a '68....

I started a dedicated TDPRI thread for my
1968 Fender Dual Showman Reverb TFL5000D

as questions within my own mind are coming up for this
particular 100w AA768 Dual Showman Reverb amp
which are entirely different from this Twin Reverb thread.

I noticed "top & bottom" Drip Edges" STILL INSTALLED on my 1968 Dual Showman Reverb
drip edge amp (see the DSR thread). Missing are both side edges & four corner pieces. Weird!

The Showman Reverb is the first amp I've purchased since high school,
and I've added three more 1960s Fender Reverb amps to my collection during
the past month. Getting used to the many many various Silverface nuances,
is "Simply a Learning Curve" of mistakes and passion
Thanks, Toppscore
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Old March 17th, 2012, 04:18 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singin' Dave View Post
Good on you for pulling as much of the Fender SF amp history as you can out of this thread! You're getting detail in one thread that took some of us a LONG time to piece together.
Thank you, Singin' Dave. One great reason to be involved within the TDPRI Forum
are the fantastic responses and ideas the OPB (Original Poster Boy) requests,
and the fantastic thoughts nobody new to think about

I did a lot of work on the early 1950s Fender Bassman History:
5B6, 5D6, 5D6A, 5E6
Published it on the Wiki/Bassman site. Open for updates and mistakes.
My next two studies are the Fender Twin and the Fender Showman.
Maybe I can contribute towards non-technical ways. My pleasure
Toppscore
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Old March 17th, 2012, 04:35 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by StephaninMelb View Post
At the bottom is the Fender 1968 Price List showing the Showman amplifier product line. Also prices adjusted to 2012 dollars.

The TFL5000D under the Showman name on on your amplifier faceplace was an ID that indicated whether that amp was a Domestic model or Export model. The D in TFL5000D shows that amp is a USA model. Fender used this market ID between 1968 and 1973.

Below are Showman and Dual Showman Chassis Serial Number "Reservations" for Brownface through Silverface years. Note what most people see on the Internet has some gross errors. The 1st issue is the had a number overlap of one digit between each year. They started and ended the year O at end of number when each year actually closed with 9. This created a double allocation. Also in most public data lots of typing errors. I am trying to slowly verify this with Fender company records.

Unfortunately the range of Chassis Serial Number reservations slots for your "Allocated" number is a rare range where there is some contention on the starting sequence. Mainly because it starts a new sequence without starting at One and alternatively doesn't attach to a number sequence of "cousin" amps that share the same circuit model. I will try and work this out if possible through alternate records. Hopefully that amp has a good readable Tube Chart and the Visual ID process will give you much more production info anyway.

Silverface Dual Showman Reverb with the 100W circuit did have "Dual" in the name on the faceplate. I will have to check earlier years.

I will lookup the drip-edge and faceplate details for that amp. Fender didn't change fine design details across all the amp models. The introduction and drop dates of drip-edge and black-line are model specific but generally close to each other. Since they are such fine details records on hard to locate. I will get back to you on Showman / Showman Dual drip-edge and black-line separately.

The funniest ID marker yet I have seen @ TDPRI was whether jewel pilot light special washer was present or not. Apparently on one Fender model the faceplate pilot light hole was drilled out too big so Fender one year came up with a wider "cupped" washer to hold the light. Silly but used as a visual marker to date a particular model and year of amp. This just goes to show you our fine TDPRI members are not likely to miss much.

Brownface / Blonde Showman with 6G14 and 6G14-A Circuits
00001 to 00349......1960
00350 to 00799......1961
00800 to 01499......1962
01500 to 01799......1963

Blackface Showman (Non-reverb) with AA763 and AB763 Circuits
A00100 to A01399......1963 <-- New Chassis serial number allocation sequence.
A00001 to A00099 not validated in Fender company records.
A01400 to A01699......1964
A01700 to A04299......1965
A04300 to A07799......1966
A07800 to A11999......1967

Silverface Showman (Non-reverb) with AB763 Circuit
A12000 to A12499......1967
A12500 to A14999......1968

Silverface Dual Showman (non-Reverb) with AB763 and AC568 Circuits
A12000 to A12499......1967
A12500 to A14999......1968

Dual Showman Geographic Market ID 1968 – 1973 (Listed under Showman Brand on Faceplate)

TFL5000D = Domestic Fender Dual Showman Reverb
TFL5000X = Export Fender Dual Showman Reverb

Silverface Dual Showman Reverb with AA768, AA769 and AA270 Circuits
A13900 to A16500 ......1968 Issue with starting number of 1968 Chassis Serial Reservation Numbers

SN#13971 makes it the 71st Showman Reverb made, and it has a February 1968 birthday. <-- Toppscore's Dual Showman Reverb

(A15500 to A16499......1968) Expected sequence not verified with Fender company records
A16500 to A22399......1969
A22400 to A25599......1970
A25600 to A36999......1971
A37000 to A50499......1972
A50500 to A67999......1973
A68000 to A80999......1974
A81000 to A99999......1975

Fender 1968 Price List – Showman Amplifiers Product Line

1968 List Price.....................2012 Dollars (Inflation Adjusted to 2012 Value)
Dual Showman w/Reverb & Vibrato – Bare Head
$530.................................. $3,467.28

Dual Showman (Non-reverb) – Bare Head
$480.................................. $3,140.18.

Showman (Non-reverb) – Bare Head
$440.................................. $2,878.50

Dual Showman Amp w/Reverb, Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D130F – 15”
$1000................................. $6,542.04

Showman Amp w/Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D130F – 15”
$690................................... $4,514.01

Showman Amp w/Vibrato & Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D140F – 15”
$708...................................$4,631.76

Dual Showman Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D140F – 15”
$500....................................$3,271.02

Dual Showman Speaker Cab w/2 x JBL D130F – 15”
$470...................................$3,074.76

Showman Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D140F – 15”
$365.................................$2,387.84

Showman Speaker Cab w/1 x JBL D130F – 15”
$350.................................$2,289.71

Showman Solid-State Amps

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-1000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 4 x 12” Heavy Duty Speakers

$1495.................................$9,780.35

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-2000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 8 x 10” Heavy Duty Speakers

$1695...................................$11,088.76

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-1000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 4 x JBL D120F – 12”

$1995..................................$13,051.37

Super Showman (Solid-state) XFL-2000 Amp Head
With Fuzz, Distortion, Vibrato, Reverb and Two Speaker Cabs with 8 x JBL D110F – 10”

$2395................................$15,668.19

The US Inflation Calculator uses the latest US government CPI data released on March 16, 2012. The next data update from the US government occurs on April 13, 2012 and will include March inflation numbers.

Thank you so much, Stephanin.
Can I or you copy the above Fender Showman info onto
the new 1968 Dual Showman TFL5000D I started???
Thank you. Toppscore
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Old March 17th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Just thought I'd point out, that while a good indicator, a "blackline" faceplate doesn't automatically mean an AB763 circuit inside. I acquired a Twin recently, looks early '68 with dripedge, "blackline" faceplate, and snowmen 8 knobs. However opened up, chassis stamp of late June '68, and AC568 circuit. Still has cloth wiring however, definitely an early transition. Moral of the story is blackline doesn't automatically = AB763! FWIW
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Old March 17th, 2012, 03:07 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Paul in Colorado
Another Twin tid-bit. When they changed to MV amps they mounted the speakers so they were no longer side by side in the same plane. One was now closer to the amp and the other was closer to the bottom of the cabinet. I don't know if they changed the size of the cab, but from a cosmetic perspective, it always looked "wrong" to me. Especially if you had the shiny dust caps of JBL speakers showing through the grill cloth. Does it affect the sound? I can't really say. I'm sure there's someone with a theory somewhere on the 'net.
Can someone please post a picture with the rear of a Master Volume Twin showing the two speakers in "staggered" configuration. We will put in side-by-side with a standard parallel config speaker shot for reference.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 03:44 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally posted by electronix
Just thought I'd point out, that while a good indicator, a "blackline" faceplate doesn't automatically mean an AB763 circuit inside. I acquired a Twin recently, looks early '68 with dripedge, "blackline" faceplate, and snowmen 8 knobs. However opened up, chassis stamp of late June '68, and AC568 circuit. Still has cloth wiring however, definitely an early transition. Moral of the story is blackline doesn't automatically = AB763! FWIW
Is your Tube Chart marked RF for June 68? Can you tell us your Twin's Chassis Serial Number? Is your Tube Chart printed for AC568 circuit?

There is no way with any recognised dating methodology to tell what time period inside a month a Fender amp of that era was built, so it would be impossible to pin-point production to "late" June 68. The month of June 68 yes, just not late in the month.

The Black-line transition (when it was dropped) occurred in May 1968 and at the same time the circuit transitioned from AB763 to AC568. So if your amp has the AC568 circuit the presence of a Black-line faceplate is either a production line screw-up or amp is an Ampenstein (misconfiguration or parts amp). I think the bulk of amps that don't meet the expected configuration can be determined to have been changed by their owners rather than originally produced by Fender that way on the production floor. These amplifiers are over 40 years old and in many cases have been through several owners and have uncertain origin.

In the great majority of cases amps will match the expected configuration. This expectation of course only really matters to a serious collector and one should never try and categorize a heavily chopped and changed players amp. A collector isn't interested in those types of amps anyway and an owner of a player amp should just appreciate its tone qualities. In many cases the player amp is the superior amp anyway as it has the benefit of hindsight to tweek the circuitry. These amps can be hard to date as they can be a collection of parts and probably silly to go through the effort. The beauty of a players amp is that one can dig in and make changes without feeling guilt. ...and some of these are ultimate tone machines and what any top guitarist should play through vs a stock rig. Look at The Edge's Vox AC30 - the outside looks like Kaka (its all taped up) and its been to the moon and back but receives top technical care and has a heart of gold. You could never date The Edge's amp as its parts would have been swapped out many times.

Players amps should be valued by the reputation of the technician who worked on it, any special technical features and value of parts & components invested. If it is a boutique "rebuild" then it should carry a higher price. Unfortunately players amps aren't marketed well.
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