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Old April 20th, 2005, 11:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Adding a line-out jack to the 59` Bassman reissue amp

Howdy folks,
I would like to add an additional line-out jack to my Fender 59` Bassman Reissue amp (build 1992). If possible I would like to have it after the Presence control. Any ideas how to do that without influence the overall sound of the amp ? What about simply adding an additional jack, connect it to the speaker-out jack and attenuate the level with some resistors ? The main thing is I donīt want any influences from that to the overall sound of the amp because it sounds sooooooo superfoxoriffic. Thanks in advance and greetings from good ole Gemany :-)

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Old April 20th, 2005, 03:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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A good line out would also include some kind of "speaker emulation" so that it would actually sound like the amp-speaker combination. I'm not sure, but it may turn out to be impractical to add a line out to that amplifier. Have you considered using a microphone such as an SM-57 or a Sennheiser e609 ?
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Old April 20th, 2005, 03:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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i'd suggest something like a redbox or cabtone......or a weber or thd attenuator with a line-out feature before i'd go messing around inside the amp....anything you do inside the amp itself will have an effect on the sound...maybe minor, but you can't have different and the same at the same time....a simple line-out isn't gonna sound very much like the amp without faking a speaker somehow tho'.....

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Old April 20th, 2005, 05:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Before I sold my `97 BMRI, I used a full sized Weber Mass with it, mic'd the amp and used the DI out on the Mass and blended at the board. Very useful DI on that Mass -- has tone and vol controls to allow you to even out the DI signal.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 09:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Similar to the other suggestions...

I use a Palmer DI with most of my amps for live use (including a 59 Bassman RI). If I only get one send to the board, then I only use Palmer DI. If I get two sends, I'll use the Palmer DI and a mic (usually a SM57...sometimes an old AKG that I have.)

Like the H&K Red Box and other DIs that are made specifically for guitar, the Palmer will accept speaker level inputs, and offer a balanced XLR output. Of course, it's not an attenuator, so you will still have to present a load for your amp.

But unlike the other DIs mentioned, the Palmer sounds better than almost any mic that I've ever used. It sounds so good...I just can't describe it.

In certain situations, I have run it like this:

Bassman RI speaker output -> Palmer DI -> THD Hotplate -> speakers.

I've A/B-ed the output of the Palmer with the output provided by the Hotplate, with several versions of the Redbox, and with the Cabtone. The Palmer sounded better every time.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 10:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the input guys. Sure, a good mic sounds incredible good, no question but what Iīm looking for is a line-level line-out, built into the amp, to connect it to my modded H&K Red Box. Itīs modded to emulate a 4x10" cab instead of the stock 4x12" stack cab. I donīt like mics to much, I really prefer a built-in solution. A power-soak like the Weber stuff is also a good solution, but I have a built-in attenuator that sounds fantastic, so I have no need to use an external solution.

So any more suggestions ?
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Old April 21st, 2005, 10:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Doesn't the Red Box accept a speaker level input?

I know that's still not what you're asking for, it just seems like an easier solution to me.

I did see a schematic a few years ago....diagraming how to do exactly what you're asking about...tapping the speaker output jack for a line level signal.

I forgot where I saw that, but it looked simple enough. I'll search around for it.

That being said, I'm not sure that it wouldn't alter your tone at least slightly.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 12:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I did find this:

http://www.rru.com/~meo/Guitar/Amps/...Mods/ezlo.html

WARNING: I have very little electical training....so I would certainly default to the expert opinions of some of the other regulars to this forum.
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Old April 21st, 2005, 01:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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from Amptone: "You can use the Red Box as part of the sound along with the mics. A speaker level output from the amp is plugged into the Red Box and the Red Box puts out two signals - an output to the speaker and a mic level feed to the console. There's definitely a phase issue between the Red Box and the mics because the sounds arrive at two different speeds (the speaker-to-microphone path takes longer). Sometimes you'll get interesting cancellations. You can use the mics on one side of the mix and the Red box on the other to give it a stereo feel."

So it seems the Red Box takes speaker level signal easily, but I don't notice an attenuator built in -- was this a mod you had done?
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Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoodTexan
I did find this:

http://www.rru.com/~meo/Guitar/Amps/...Mods/ezlo.html

WARNING: I have very little electical training....so I would certainly default to the expert opinions of some of the other regulars to this forum.
Thanks man, this looks really interesting and uses the same basics as the article I found in an old Fender Frontline magazine form the late 80īs. I think I will contact this guy and ask him some more details. More or less this is simply a "thru" option routing from the main output jack (for the built-in speakers) but attenuated at line-level.
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Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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...whoops...

..wrong section...
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Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:44 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Elmis
from Amptone: "You can use the Red Box as part of the sound along with the mics. A speaker level output from the amp is plugged into the Red Box and the Red Box puts out two signals - an output to the speaker and a mic level feed to the console. There's definitely a phase issue between the Red Box and the mics because the sounds arrive at two different speeds (the speaker-to-microphone path takes longer). Sometimes you'll get interesting cancellations. You can use the mics on one side of the mix and the Red box on the other to give it a stereo feel."

So it seems the Red Box takes speaker level signal easily, but I don't notice an attenuator built in -- was this a mod you had done?
I think Amptone is talking about the "normal" Red Box which is able to handle a speaker input signal. My box is a modded "Red Box Pro" which can only handle line-level signals. Stock it comes with switchable 2x12" open back cab or the classic stack 4x12" closed back simulation. Both options sound fantastic and with the 2x12" you can make any small Fender amp sound like a Twin through the PA, the 4x12" is also incredible good but I donīt like that brutal sound in general, so I was contacting the guy who made this two simulations for H&K (as you may know, H&K is a german company, only a few kilometers away from my hometown). This guy is a well-known writer and editior for several german guitar magazines and he modded my Redbox for a 4x10" open back simulation. It sounds great and the Bassman sounds like a Bassman, even through your PA ;-) Thatīs the reason why I love it so much. The mod itself is covered into a black epoxy block, so I canīt tell you any details about it, sorry !
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